Advantages of non-Axis locking knives?

M

mdarby

Joined
Apr 10, 2005
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As an owner of a Benchmade Griptilian AXIS-locking knife looking to make a new purchase, I am unclear why one would purchase a liner lock or lockback knife. My impression is the AXIS mechanism is very strong, and it's certainly easy to open and close with one hand without putting a finger in the blade path.

Are there reasons to actually prefer these other locking mechanisms, or do people just prefer knives other than those made by Benchmade?

Thanks for clarifying.

P.S. Has anybody tested the strength of the SOG Arc system versus the BM AXIS? They seem almost identical to me.
 
I've owned a bunch of lockbacks and liner locks and I haven't found one that holds a candle to the Axis. Most of the liner locks I have are either prone to failure or have lots of sloppy blade play after 4 or 5 years (or less). I've recently switched over to the Axis and the only criticism I've had was with the 806D2...due to a production flaw I got one w/ out a sufficient "flat" for the locking bar to ret one so you can induce a lock failure w/ a few quick wraps on a table top. The Axis in my RSK-1 though is flawless and impressively tough, I can honestly say I find it hard to imagine a Frame, Liner, or lockback that I would trust more.
 
Familiarity with other locks, and preferences for other knife styles would be my guess. The AXIS lock is great, but it's not really an "end all" system, since other locking methods are perfectly fine. Some of the most common knives are the FRN handled Spydercos (Endura, Delica), and part of the appeal is how thin and light they are, and this simply wouldn't work with the AXIS style. As for myself, there aren't any D/A OTF autos or balisongs with the AXIS lock. :D
 
Well, I give it a shot:

When it come to pure lock strength, the Balisong latch-lock is better than the Axis-lock.

When it comes to long-term reliability the balisong and the humble lockback are nearly impossible to beat.
There are Buck 110s that are still going strong after more than 30 years.
And there are extremely old Balisong type knives still working to this day.

And the Axis-lock does have at least one drawback that I'm personally familiar with:

Water.

It's hard to dry out the knife when you're in the field and without a torx-driver.
The best method I've found is to "sling" the water out and blow in to the handles.
But I'm always just a little concerned that the omega-springs are rusting for the rest of the trip.
And I hate to think about what it would look like under those scales if I did'nt even bother to try and dry the knife after getting it soaked.
Maybe Benchmade should use H-1 steel for the springs?

But with a frame-lock, Balisong, and even the lockback, there really is'nt a place for water to get trapped.

But I do love my 551 and 556 Grips!
They are awesome knives to be sure.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Another reason could be that one wants to purchase knives from other manufacturers. Benchmade is the only company using the axis lock. If one wants to purchase a knife from another manufacturer one has to get something other than the axis lock. I love the axis lock and like Benchmade. I also like other brands as well.

Aghhhh. The curse of the knifenut. Too many knives, not enough time... or money.
 
Benchmade has a great thing going with the AXIS lock, but I wish they would use more S30V in their knives. A quick search on their website shows around 40 AXIS folders, but only 6 in S30V. Now turn back the clock and imagine Spyderco coming out with the Chinook II and Manix . . . in 154CM. Takes a little wind out of the sails, doesn't it? BM has an innovative lock and plenty of fresh designs, but why stick to 154CM when S30V folders are available from other companies at a comparable price?

They're also missing a big, beefy AXIS folder (the Skirmish would have been perfect). I'm still waiting for a satin S30V AXIS AFCK :cool: .
 
I'll take my Axis-lock Benchmades over anything else, as they are 100% ambidextrious, and as a "lefty" that's important to me.
 
I don't mean to hyjack the thread, but I'm not convinced that S30V is any better than Benchmade's 440C or Spyderco's VG-10.

Admittedly, I only have one S30V knife--a Spyderco Native.

But it's performance, edge retention, ability to take a keen edge does'nt seem any better than my Spyderco Native III with VG-10.
In fact, it seems to dull just a tad quicker.

On the other hand, I don't care for 154CM or ATS-34. I just can't seem to get as keen an edge as I can with VG-10, 440C, or even AUS-8.

Allen.
 
As in everything else,if it isn't an intrinsic flaw in the design itself then its execution of manufacture and the quality of its materials by a reputable manufacturer with good Q.C is the most critical.My BM 800 AFCK(linerlock,fit/finish<except for the nearly worn 2 foil type-BM"balisong butterflire>" is still as good as the day I bought it(admittedly,I take care of my knives)That being said however ,the AXIS lock is superb-ambidextous ,strong and quick.Definitelywill buy a BM806D2 in future but still very much trust my older BM800. :p
 
The only reason I would forgo the axis lock is for the simplicity you get from a Liner or Lockback. I think sand would gum up an axis lock pretty easily. In the US, I don't have to worry about these issues, so Axis locks are my choice.
 
I can think of a reason: jurisdiction. Plainly said, an axis lock is a FINE lock, and probably one of the best out there as far as mechanics are concerned, however one can "flip" the blade out with a flick of the wrist (and a manipulation of the axis bar). This means that in jurisdictions where they are ultra knife-unfriendly, it can be considered a gravity knife. Granted, I haven't heard of this happening and I don't worry about it, but there are plenty of people (some even on this board) who ARE worried about that. Me, I'll take a lockback any day of the week over just about anything else. Its not new, or even particularly exciting, but it works.

Sincerely,
Anthony
 
Ascoe said:
The only reason I would forgo the axis lock is for the simplicity you get from a Liner or Lockback. I think sand would gum up an axis lock pretty easily. In the US, I don't have to worry about these issues, so Axis locks are my choice.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I disagree because I think that it would be extremely easy to shake out any sand from an AXIS lock. Anyway - there is not much space for sand to get stuck in. Besides, the AXIS is kind of self-cleaning anyway...

I have been reading plenty of threads about the AXIS lock and I have yet to see one with somebody complaining about sand messing up the AXIS lock.

Has anyone actually had a bad experience with an AXIS in sand/dust?!

Now the gravity/jurisdiction is a completely different issue as it is, indeed, really easy to flip the AXIS open, as fast as any "real" gravity knife. I guess the trick here is to open it *really* slow with your thumb if and when the local cops want to see it. I did that once and it worked - the copper was happy the knife was legal ;)

Cheers
 
...fortunately have never been stopped by a police officer about my knife :however if I were, I might inadvertently 'flick' it open quickly and show it to him.Then the feces will hit the fan and I could conceivably be charged with "possession of dangerous/prohibited weapon"...etc.a nightmare all around.I WILL remember to open it slowly (or better yet with 2 hands!) if I'm ever in that situation-thanks.
 
The AXIS lock is great, but if you only buy a knife with the Axis lock you are limited with your choices. For certain situations where I feel I may have to use the knife in a demanding way I'd take an AXIS lock with me. If I want a more gent style knife that is more sheeple friendly I'll take whatever looks good and I'm comfortable with, like my Kershaw Nakamura or Lone Wolf T2. Both have liner locks, but they are well made and well executed liner locks and I have complete confidence in them for what I expect to use the knives for.

I have carried a BM710 w/ AXIS lock for a good 4 years and used it everyday and it never showed signs of wearing as far as the lock was concerned. I don't know if it would ever wear out in my life time as long as the springs hold up.

As far as liner locks, I'll get back to you in a few more years. :)
 
I have several Axis lock knives and they are hard to beat when it comes to strength, ease of operation, reliability and are left hand friendly. Benchmade is the only company licensed to use the Axis lock and if you don't find a Benchmade knife that suits your purpose or you just plain like, then you will need to look at other manufacturers. Some people like a certain knife design and have no choice but to accept a different type of lock, this certainly isn't a bad thing as owners of Spyderco Manix and Military knifes will tell you. Then there are light duty folders such as gentlemen folders that don't require the lock strength that an Axis lock with provide. Even Benchmade produces lock configurations other than the Axis Lock for various reasons. The Axis Lock is a wonderful locking system with several advantages but it doesn't mean that other locking systems aren't still viable. I think that it really boils down to knife design and what the buyer is looking for.
 
Several good points made here, good replies guys. First off, I do like my BM 720 very much. There are some inherent disadvantages to the AXIS lock for certain applications however.

The already-stated thinness problem for example. It seems to be impractical to produce an AXIS lock bearing knife as thin as a calypso jr, for example.

Complexity: Admittedly the AXIS lock seems very simple, just a bar stopping rotation of a blade, but with a deeper look most AXIS locks have many more small nooks and crannies for dirt, rust, etc to hide in, in the actual locking mechanism, than comparable locks. Also, the amount of small parts involved make it prohibitive from a custom maker's point of view, due to excessive machining.

My third point is admittedly the weakest, but it seems either BM or practicality has imposed a size limit of 3.9 inches (the 710 size, as stated by BM) on their blades. Not necessarily a disadvantage to most, but some may see this as a drawback.

Let me finish by saying that I really really like the axis lock, it is definitely the easiest and possibly the strongest lock on the market. It isn't the end-all, be-all though.
 
I own several Benchmade knives w/Axis locks myself. As far as I'm concerned, there is no production knife made that is smoother, safer, or more convenient to use than a knife with this lock mechanism.

However, the only situation I could see where it would not work its best would be an environment where one was dealing with a lot of muck, mud, or sand.

If I were to use a knife in that environment, I'd select a fixed blade, plain and simple...probably another Benchmade.
 
Talking about reliability, to me the axis lock looks nice and handy but too sensitive to dust (ie hard to maintain IMO), the liner or frame locks are simple to use and maintain but randomly sensitive to failure when torque is applied (except maybe with a LAWKS). If I had to choose a locking mechanism on a single knife to take with me far from civilization, I would prefer the lockback (read Chinook) or the compression lock (read paramillie) ;) .
 
If Benchmade made a design that I was crazy about, equipped with an Axis lock, I’d buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, every Benchmade model has something that I don’t like about it. For large folders, I really prefer round opening holes, rough G-10 scales, better steel than 154CM, full height flat grinds, and NO mall ninja black blade coatings. Benchmade doesn’t make anything like that.

Until they do make a folder I like, I’m quite content to stick with Spyderco’s offerings. The Military and Manix are both sensational designs, with extremely high levels of cutting performance. I think that Sal really has the pulse of the non-LEO knife community right now, and it shows in Spyderco’s product offerings.
 
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