Advantages of non-Axis locking knives?

[mdarby]

Thanks for all the good feedback, it makes me feel good about my Griptilian purchase. Since it's not for use in the sand, one of the potential downsides is not an issue.

It seems that the SOG Arc Lock is much less popular. For what it's worth, I am trying to get some information out of the company comparing their mechanism to AXIS. If they send me anything I'll post it.

 

[Nick Hyle]

I can think of a reason: jurisdiction. Plainly said, an axis lock is a FINE lock, and probably one of the best out there as far as mechanics are concerned, however one can "flip" the blade out with a flick of the wrist (and a manipulation of the axis bar). This means that in jurisdictions where they are ultra knife-unfriendly, it can be considered a gravity knife.

All Axis locks have fully adjustable pivots. If your local LEOs are flip-happy, you can crank it tighter until it pushes open but doesn't flick. Which is an especially good idea if you are, say, mailing one from the USA to Canada.

The already-stated thinness problem for example. It seems to be impractical to produce an AXIS lock bearing knife as thin as a calypso jr, for example.

I don't own a Calypso - exactly how thin is it? The Zytel BM 530 and aluminum BM 960 are 0.93cm and 53/64 grams per the catalog - the 530 is visually thinner than my old Endura. I'll tell you it's so thin I forget when I'm carrying it. Is the Caly significantly under 9mm? Surely someone has a Caly and a 530 or 960 and can give us a visual? Or a 921 is only 1.04cm, a 770 0.99cm.

Mdarby, I own a short stack of Axis Benchmades and one SOG Arc, a 4" Pentagon (the PE 14, I think). The PE is a decent knife. In my opinion it feels less well put together than a Griptilian. Not weaker, but less precise, sloppier. The tolerances are more like a Cold Steel or CRKT than a Benchmade. Then again this is a 4" Arc Lock with full liners that used to cost about the same as a mini-Grip. (But it looks like MSRP has gone up to $105.) I'd probably rather rather have a Trident - a higher grind and you can get it in plain edge. But you can get the PE in a 5" blade.

I think the biggest advantage of the Axis over the Arc is that there are a lot more Axis knives to choose between - the Arc Lock has the PEs, the Vision tantos, the Trident, the little gents sized thing and the credit card, and that's it, and the PEs and Visions are combo only. (There were what, literally a dozen of each in plain?) And except for the single high-end Vison in ATS34, I think they're all AUS8. If there's an Arc you like the looks and materials of, based on my experience I'd say it'll be a solid performer.

Based on what I've actually held in my hands, I don't think the inexpensive (PE, Trident, Zytel Vision) Arc locks are as good as even the inexpensive Axis locks (Grips, mini-grips, 530). Which is a long way from saying I think they're bad. I've never handled one of the full-built titanium Visons, so I don't know how much better it's fitted. I certainly trust my SOG PE14, and carry it as a beater. I trust it more than I trust any liner lock.

 

[WadeF]

Does anyone know if sand and dirt will actually mess up an Axis lock? I have a BM Axis I'm not that crazy about, maybe I should get a bucket of sand, plunge my hand and knife into it and open the knife IN the sand, pull it out and see if it's locked up solidly.

Then I could try taking it apart to clean it. How hard are the AXIS lock knives to put back together if you are fairly mechnically inclinged?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

How thin is benchmade profiling their edges now? If you buy a new AFCK in M2 what is a likely edge thickness and angle?

-Cliff

 

[phatch]

Does anyone know if sand and dirt will actually mess up an Axis lock? I have a BM Axis I'm not that crazy about, maybe I should get a bucket of sand, plunge my hand and knife into it and open the knife IN the sand, pull it out and see if it's locked up solidly.

Then I could try taking it apart to clean it. How hard are the AXIS lock knives to put back together if you are fairly mechnically inclinged?

I've hiked a 705 through a horrendous 21 mile quicksand death march. The action got gritty but worked reliably. Loosen the pivot, swish it through some water. Dry, oil, reset the pivot. It's good to go.

Phil

 

[Nick Hyle]

My Benchmades lived in southern New Mexico for four years - they went camping, hiking, and working in the Chihuanuan Desert, the Jornada Del Muerte, and occasionally the Sonoran Desert. They felt gritty, and they'd get a little stiff - fine dust in the pivot - but they never had anything that resembled a lock problem from sand or dust. YMMV.

 

[WadeF]

Talking about reliability, to me the axis lock looks nice and handy but too sensitive to dust (ie hard to maintain IMO)

How is it too sensitive to dust? Can you elaborate on this? Have you had an Axis lock fail because it had dust in it? Mine gets full of dust, pocket lint, etc and has no problems. Others here talk about getting sand and grit in their axis lock knives, but it never caused the axis lock from locking up properly.

I've had pocket lint cause a lockback to fail, never had it cause a problem with an Axis lock.

 

[Blades_Two]

Another reason could be that one wants to purchase knives from other manufacturers. Benchmade is the only company using the axis lock.

Benchmade owns the Axis lock brand but you can buy similar locks from SOG, Cold Steel and others. I even have a Camillus utility blade knife that has one. I think the concept for the Axis type lock came originally from the now defunct REKAT company, didn't it? I can't remember one before their lock. No doubt Benchmade has made the most "hay" with their version of it.

 

[Alvin Hom]

I own several BM axis locks...love them all. But, I just ordered a slipjoint to joing my EDC rotation.

Why?

Because they're cool. It's also a nice clean design on the side of the knife with no lock mechanism to break up the lines. I know the slipjoint won't do the harder use stuff I put my Ritter Mini Grip through so I'll only carry the slipjoint to the office where it'll be able to take care of any cutting needs.

Check out this pic...you gotta admit it's a pretty knife.

 

[KeithAM]

I think the Axis lock is great. I agree with those who say they still go with other knives because Benchmade doesn't offer a huge universe of designs with Axis locks.

My dream Axis lock knife would be a Ritter Grip S30V blade with ergonomic, rough G-10 scales and full stainless liners.

 

[WadeF]

My dream Axis lock knife would be a Ritter Grip S30V blade with ergonomic, rough G-10 scales and full stainless liners.

Hopefully BM will be smart and over Doug's blade in other handle designs. Some G-10 options, and some Titanium handle options.

I've been carring the Ritter Grip for the past week, but the "CLACK" it makes when opening and closing it is driving me nuts. I like my equipment to FEEL like it's good quality. I'm not questioning that the Ritter Grip isn't a quality knife, it just doesn't FEEL like a quality knife, or sound like one.

 

[marauder220]

Lately I've been migrating towards AXIS folders or standard lockbacks. Over the years I have worn out a few liner-locks and more recently (2wks ago) I purchased an Emerson waved CQC-7 that suffered lock slippage from the box and darn near caught my hand in defensive training practice. After that I figured I'm done with linerlocks alltogether for safety purposes. I do have several framelocks and all are stable and lockup properly. I have a few original AXIS models and none show any deterioration in lockup even after years of use, so I'm basically sold on it thus far.

 

[mdarby]

Nick Hyle:

Does the SOG Pentagon Elite flip open with one hand like the BM Axis knives?

Thanks for all the insights.

 

[Knifeclerk]

Something very interesting was pointed out to me in my store not so long ago (regarding axis/arc locks, etc.) It's a tactical issue, but seems to be a valid one, none the less. These style locking mechanisms can be disengaged by a second party in close quarters grapling situations. Likely? Not so much. Possible? Absolutely. Just something that may be a turn-off to some.

 

[SIFU1A]

chris carraci the designer of the AFCK said on this forum he thought axis was not good for SD use, too much chance of accidental disengagement, sure it is possible, not likely imho.

someone suggested grinding down the buttons flush w/the handle which would pretty much eliminate that problem, i would think.

 

[Larry S.]

.....IMHO, some of the best are branded "STRIDER"!!

 

[Blop]

Oh no! Not this stupid points. If someone believes, he or she can disengage the Axis of someone else in a combat situation do it. Just do it. You will not reach it.

Mr. Carragi was speaking of it but the archives say, he never used the newer AFCK to proof his statement himself. So he believed but never knew.

To say, a folder can be folded so accidantel disengagment can´t be excluded is, looking on one special type of lock, stupid because
you can disengage any folder and in that respect EVERY folder can be accidantly disengaged and is useless for tactical. EVERY FOLDER, no exeption can be made if that nonsense is the base of discussion.

I mean this is a real life forum, ss stop talking nonsense.

 

[allenC]

I really don't think a person could disengage the lock while you are trying to stab him to death.
If he could get that kind of grip on your knife hand then it would be easier to twist the knife from your grip or perform a hand-throw.

But I suppose it is'nt impossible.

Allen.

 

[nenofury]

As an owner of a Benchmade Griptilian AXIS-locking knife looking to make a new purchase, I am unclear why one would purchase a liner lock or lockback knife. My impression is the AXIS mechanism is very strong, and it's certainly easy to open and close with one hand without putting a finger in the blade path.

Agreed. I'll never buy another non-Axis folder. Although that limits my choices, I just don't like anything else. I've had nice knives that I sold off because I found them utterly useless next to the Benchmades.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

I'll never buy another non-Axis folder.

What brand of crystal ball do you have?

The new Kershaw Ken Onion Stud Lock is a nice ambidextrious lock.