Advice need on what angle to put on the frame lock

[Obsessed with Edges]

I checked, that's a very expensive knife you have. If it were new, you should have sent it back!!! Like you said, if the liner is too short, you cannot add to it.

I bought that knife around the time Camillus USA closed up shop, when they went out of business. Sending it back really wasn't an option at that point. That being said, the framelock itself, even being a bit sloppy at lockup, is very strong & takes effort to disengage - I'm confident I'll never abuse it to the extent that it might become a safety concern with an accidental closing. It was just the 'rattle' of the thing that bugged me - it was otherwise so close to being a perfectly-executed design.

I also have a limited-run version of the same knife that was marketed through A.G. Russell's catalog for a short time. I think it might've been made as an S.F.O. exclusively at A.G. Russell's request, as that was a period when assisted openers were still illegal in a lot of areas around the country, being lumped in with switchblades in a lot of local knife laws. It's a non-assisted version and functions solely as a flipper for opening. It worked out so well, I actually prefer it to the assisted version. Very smooth and easy-opening with solid lockup and no concerns about torsion bars / springs failing down the road.

 

[LimpCroissant]

Well, sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the situation. I personally like my liner or frame lock faces to slant the other way so that more surface area is contacting it, but who's to say which of us is right. Before doing this though, I'd add a little pressure to the lockbar to make it move over a little further. I've done this on a handful of knives successfully. Sometimes they don't get the tension right. That might solve it right there. I just did that the other day actually.

If you must remove material, I suppose the other option is to remove a little material from the stop pin. That would allow the liner/framelock to move over further, and if you screwed anything up, you could just get a new stop pin. I had one old discontinued knife recently where the framelock moved alll the way over to the opposite scale and caused blade play. I put a slightly larger diameter stop pin in and now it doesn't have blade play anymore.

 

[alan0354]

I opened up my Laurisilva knife and look at the frame lock. Here is the picture showing the wear mark on the liner lock. I think my guess is correct to grind at angle like (b). You can clearly see the wear mark is at one end only of the liner lock that only grinding like in (b) in my first post will result of this.



Grinding the STOP pin is very hard. You have to actually reduce the whole diameter instead of grinding one spot. The pin can rotate, grinding one spot is not good enough. It's so small also, not to mention it might be made of much harder steel. I don't have the equipment to do it. I doubt normal home workshop have the equipment to reduce the diameter of such a small item.

The alternative is to over drill the hole that fit the STOP pin. But that is every bit as dangerous if not more than to grind the frame lock. I have to find the very precise drill bit not to over drill the hole, or else I would ruin both frame plates. At least I can take my time to sand a few strokes, put it back in to try. Takes a long time, but I did it.



EDIT: I want to note that I do NOT think wearing the frame lock is of any concern even grinding with angle like (b) in the first post. You can see the picture. I have been flipping this knife open and close a lot. I even move the frame lock back and fore when the blade is locked just trying to wear it in faster as this one has slight problem that the frame lock is not as deep in as I like. I much be moving the frame lock over 1000 times whenever I sit there watching tv. Look at the picture, that little shinny spot is ALL I manage to wear down.

 

[LimpCroissant]

Well, I just don't want you to take off tot much of a part that's essentially the essence of the whole knife and end up in a bad situation. One thing about production knives is they don't spend much time fitting the liner/framelock to the blade tang. They pretty much just cut it out, bend it, and if it fits decent enough, it ships. Blade tangs are cut in different manners too, some curved, some straight. If the blade tang cutout is curved, then even if the liner lock is cut perfectly flat, only that part (in the picture above) would likely contact the blade tang. Either way, please let us know your results.

 

[alan0354]

Well, I just don't want you to take off tot much of a part that's essentially the essence of the whole knife and end up in a bad situation. One thing about production knives is they don't spend much time fitting the liner/framelock to the blade tang. They pretty much just cut it out, bend it, and if it fits decent enough, it ships. Blade tangs are cut in different manners too, some curved, some straight. If the blade tang cutout is curved, then even if the liner lock is cut perfectly flat, only that part (in the picture above) would likely contact the blade tang. Either way, please let us know your results.

The first one is good, I looked at the second one, I make it work by bending the frame lock out a little bit more and it's all good, no need to take off anything. I try my best not to grind.

 

[killgar]

I looked up that brand of knives, it's a very inexpensive brand (as evident by the very rough contact surface of the lock), so it won't be a big loss if such experimentation ruins the knife. That's a bit of a relief.

I'm all in favor of experimenting with knives, provided it's done safely (emphasis on safety). I wouldn't be making and selling knives today if I had not engaged in a lot of experimentation over the years.

Who knows, perhaps all this experimentation will one day lead you (alan0354) to make your own knives. It all starts somewhere, and experimenting on existing knives is a good place to start. All part of the learning process.

I'm glad it's working out for you alan0354. We learn by doing .

PS. I'd still recommend against altering the locks of any high-end knives. If they have issues, I'd recommend sending them back to the maker and not void the warranty.

 

[Swp321]

Withdrawn due to sensitivity

 

[killgar]

This is just a rehash of the nonsense from a week or so ago from a thread that was taken down. Why are we doing this again?

So, after being a member here for 5 months you've become the authority on which threads are worthy of discussion?

If you don't like this thread you are free to ignore it. No one is forcing you to either read it or participate in it.

And if you think rules of the forum are being broken then report it to the moderators. See where that gets you.

If anyone is in the wrong here, I'd say it's you.

 

[Swp321]

So, after being a member here for 4 months you've become the authority on which threads are worthy of discussion?

If you don't like this thread you are free to ignore it. No one is forcing you to either read it or participate in it.

And if you think rules of the forum are being broken then report it to the moderators. See where that gets you.

If anyone is in the wrong here, I'd say it's you.

Deleted post due to not being worth my time. Hope your day gets better there.

 

[killgar]

Wow mighty strong keyboard warrior we have here. Meant no harm or foul just pointing out a fact that this has been discussed before that is all. Glad the thread has a representative now.

That's not all you did, You called it "nonsense" and asked "why are we doing this again". You have not been a participant in the discussion, you have not contributed anything to the discussion, all you've done is post an insult. Around here that's called trolling.

 

[alan0354]

I looked up that brand of knives, it's a very inexpensive brand (as evident by the very rough contact surface of the lock), so it won't be a big loss if such experimentation ruins the knife. That's a bit of a relief.

I'm all in favor of experimenting with knives, provided it's done safely (emphasis on safety). I wouldn't be making and selling knives today if I had not engaged in a lot of experimentation over the years.

Who knows, perhaps all this experimentation will one day lead you (alan0354) to make your own knives. It all starts somewhere, and experimenting on existing knives is a good place to start. All part of the learning process.

I'm glad it's working out for you alan0354. We learn by doing .

PS. I'd still recommend against altering the locks of any high-end knives. If they have issues, I'd recommend sending them back to the maker and not void the warranty.

All mine are within $70, it's no big loss if I screw it up. But I don't think I did. I tested the knife by hitting the back(the opposite side of the sharp side) on concrete steps to make sure the blade did not release from the vibration or even moving the frame lock. I think I am good. That kind of shock is harder than any shock from using the knife.

I am very careful.

 

[scottc3]

If there is any other way to test the knife, let me know. I am going to use this for EDC, so it has to be secure.

That kind of shock is harder than any shock from using the knife.

On the utubes lots of folding knife strength tests, Andrew Demko's testing Coldsteels against other knives is fun to watch, but lots of folks testing.
Practically speaking hitting the top of a cement gutter pan or steps works, though it might scratch the blade spine or dent handle if you miss. Wacking against a chunk of wood or tree branch would be better and accomplish the same thng.

 

[alan0354]

On the utubes lots of folding knife strength tests, Andrew Demko's testing Coldsteels against other knives is fun to watch, but lots of folks testing.
Practically speaking hitting the top of a cement gutter pan or steps works, though it might scratch the blade spine or dent handle if you miss. Wacking against a chunk of wood or tree branch would be better and accomplish the same thng.

Ha ha, believe or not, it did NOT make a scratch on the black of the blade. I did the first one on a test knife before doing on others, all came out unskated. I think that's a really good test on the security of the line lock. What do you think?

 

[Sibyrnes]

Ha ha, believe or not, it did NOT make a scratch on the black of the blade. I did the first one on a test knife before doing on others, all came out unskated. I think that's a really good test on the security of the line lock. What do you think?

Well since you asked, I think it's a silly waste of time that tells you nothing about the actual utility of the knife and it's something I won't be doing with any of my mine, but you are certainly free to do what ever you want with your's.

There are lots of posts here talking about "spine whacking" if you are interested in other people's opinion.

 

[alan0354]

Well since you asked, I think it's a silly waste of time that tells you nothing about the actual utility of the knife and it's something I won't be doing with any of my mine, but you are certainly free to do what ever you want with your's.

There are lots of posts here talking about "spine whacking" if you are interested in other people's opinion.

I meant what other ways to test the line lock whether it is secure?

 

[000Robert]

I meant what other ways to test the line lock whether it is secure?

Personally, I don't treat my knives like that. Any task that needs that kind of strength I will use a fixed blade for. End of story...
My autos and folders are only for light cutting chores.

 

[alan0354]

Personally, I don't treat my knives like that. Any task that needs that kind of strength I will use a fixed blade for. End of story...
My autos and folders are only for light cutting chores.

My question is whether there's a better way to test, not whether I should get a fixed blade.

 

[scottc3]

I think that's a really good test on the security of the line lock. What do you think?

I used wood table edge last time I had folder that had a USA made manufactured defective frame lock before sending back for satisfactory free warranty repair. Gifted that folder but had a conversation with that grand daughter about the knife's history, proper use of cutting tools, and emergency batoning use technique of unlocking blade before batoning.
Had an italian branded Chinese made folder that came with manufactured defective liner lock. In that case the liner lock came 100 percent across blade and would wedge between butt of blade and opposite frame side. It had a sweet thin hollow ground 4-ish inch, N690 (reported), blade so I keep it in kitchen always open for cutting food, bigger then a paring knife.
Inexpensive knives biggest problem for me has been poorly demensioned, or soft screws and threads that fail very regularly, so I no longer asume I can dissassemble and repair various problems that came from factories. I'm amazed you were able to take an Inexpensive one apart and put back together 6 to 8 times!

 

[alan0354]

I used wood table edge last time I had folder that had a USA made manufactured defective frame lock before sending back for satisfactory free warranty repair. Gifted that folder but had a conversation with that grand daughter about the knife's history, proper use of cutting tools, and emergency batoning use technique of unlocking blade before batoning.
Had an italian branded Chinese made folder that came with manufactured defective liner lock. In that case the liner lock came 100 percent across blade and would wedge between butt of blade and opposite frame side. It had a sweet thin hollow ground 4-ish inch, N690 (reported), blade so I keep it in kitchen always open for cutting food, bigger then a paring knife.
Inexpensive knives biggest problem for me has been poorly demensioned, or soft screws and threads that fail very regularly, so I no longer asume I can dissassemble and repair various problems that came from factories. I'm amazed you were able to take an Inexpensive one apart and put back together 6 to 8 times!

The biggest problem is the set of TORX driver. Those screws are all different even though they are supposed to be #6 or #8. You really need to get more than one set to test, they are DIFFERENT, some are more 6 1/2 or 8 1/2, some are smaller. It is so screwed up. So far, I only need #6 and #8 for all the knives I have(over 10).

Get at least TWO sets of TORX that tested to be different. Then when you work on your knives, try and find the ones that gives you a tight fit. DO NOT use ones that's kind of lose fit, you'll strip the screw after one or two times. THAT'S THE KEY. I cannot emphasize this enough.

Funny I have one smallest set that I actually use #7 on #6 screws.

Since I learn this( THE HARD WAY), I won't even think twice to take knives apart, even like 10 times or more.

What is BATONING?

All the knives I have, it's not an issue of the liner lock reach too far to the right. I looked carefully, there is no way the liner completely disengage the bottom of the blade before hitting the other side of the wall. One of my knife actually hit the right side, the whole liner lock width is STILL under the blade. I consider it's the SAFEST of all knives!!! It's a long way back to the left and it's going no where stopped by the right side. You mean your knife has so much space on the right that the liner can move completely out of the bottom of the blade and free the blade?

One other thing I find very useful, you have to have a small vise, some knives need to be locked onto a vise to loosen the pivot screw because you literally need to have torx driver on both side, one to turn, the other to prevent the other side from turning. You need two hands.

I do a lot of stuffs at home building things and all. I have a little work shop and have all sort of tools. That really help.

 

[scottc3]

The biggest problem is the set of TORX driver. Those screws are all different even though they are supposed to be #6 or #8. You really need to get more than one set to test, they are DIFFERENT, some are more 6 1/2 or 8 1/2, some are smaller. It is so screwed up. So far, I only need #6 and #8 for all the knives I have(over 10).

interesting reason to buy sub-standard poorly made tools, to fit sub-standard poorly made screws

What is BATONING?

from wiki=Batoning is the technique of cutting or splitting wood by using a baton-sized stick or mallet to repeatedly strike the spine of a sturdy knife, chisel or blade in order to drive it through wood, similar to how a froe is used.

You mean your knife has so much space on the right that the liner can move completely out of the bottom of the blade and free the blade?

bingo, but blade is captured against face of frame n blade.
Of course I opened it carefully so liner lock is on blade tang, and it has not moved in a few years of use.

yea that wonderful usefull "kitchen knife" has more then one issue, and guess what, flipping screws rusted quickly, so not taking this one apart AND leaving it open. I will destroy this folder to rescue the blade if I ever need to, grind is that good.

I do a lot of stuffs at home building things and all. I have a little work shop and have all sort of tools. That really help.

glad to read you have a place to work, guessing you enjoy your time there-