Advice on full-size 9mm pistols please

[Charlie_K]

Why would you rather have a Glock over the others mentioned - the SIG, HK etc?

Im honestly interested and take it, that you've handled and shot the SIG and the others extensively?

Why mention the Grand Puissance?

For me it's the worst case scenario situation that comes after needing to use it, that's a motivating factor in the decision. It's not a junk gun you wouldn't care about if you threw it away, but it's not an expensive gun that might "accidentally" get lost and you'll never get back.

 

[MVF]

Yes, I had a mint knife end up confiscated once- forgot it was in my bag at the airport and they wouldn't let me just put it in a locker until I got back. When I got it back, it was quite scratched up

 

[BladeScout]

I'm a fan of Glocks. I like that they're simple, reliable, and practical.

The 226 is reliable as heck. Never had a malfunction, which wasnt ammo related.

In Websters there is a pic of the 226 when you look up the word 'practical.'

I like the Glock trigger. No modern trigger I've tried compares. I like that the trigger pull is consistent for every shot first to last (never was a fan of the sa/da setup). I like the clean break and short crisp trigger reset.

The Glock trigger works. But Ill never be a fan of that as I am of some other triggers - i.e the 226 and some WIlsons and other custom jobs (customs are of course moot, as we talk production but you compared to 'any modern trigger').

I like that I can completely tear the gun down and put it together with a 3/32" punch and not even use any bad words. Try that with your SIG.


Wot! Taking the slide of a 226 takes no time at all. You dont even need a punch. Cleaning is breeze. Should you want, you can remove springs and all, but why on earth would one want to. Cleaning with the slide and frame apart is fine and all thats needed.

If guns are dirty and one dont want to do much cleaning, just take off the grip slabs (especially if wood/customs) and dunk the guns in a drum of diesel, then take an air hose to them and blow out the gunk.

Ive never had any reason to take a 226 all the way down for cleaning purposes.

Parts and accessories are readily available. Magazines are cheap. The guns themselves are reasonably priced.

Ive never had to buy a spare part for a SIG, so dont know the index but being SIG/SAUER and top quality, Im sure they want money for them

Spare mags for the SIG is no problem. Plenty of quality after market manufacturers besides. MecGars are good quality and work just as fine as the originals.

The 226 is very reasonably priced....for the incredible quality, which one purchases. Yes, it costs more than a Glock.

I like Glocks but that doesn't mean that you have to. MVF doesn't like them which is fine with me. Just a suggestion.
You dont have to suggest anything. People can buy what ever the guns, they want. Im fine with Glocks - they are brute tools, reasonably priced and they work. I like 'em. There is just a world of difference between a Glock and a SIG.

The Hi-Power would be a fun gun. Not the most practical for carry but a great range gun. I've always wanted one. That's why I mentioned it.

Got it.

 

[BladeScout]

yes, that reason is price

Yup.
Cheap tools performing the intended task.

 

[BladeScout]

The 226 was the first pistol I ever purchased, so it holds a lot of value to me. Unfortunately spare and replacement magazines are neither cheap, nor easy to find. And if I ever had to use it in a worst case scenario, I'd hate to think of it sitting in an evidence room for months or years before I get it back, with no telling what condition it'll be in.
As above; Mec-Gar mags for example - they are good quality, reliable and affordable. No reason to buy original mags if you think them too pricey or hard to fine.

It's reasons such as that, that I picked up a Glock 19. Quality is good, magazines are plentiful and affordable in all manner of capacities, and it can sit indefinitely without rotting or rusting away in less than optimal storage conditions.

SIGs are high quality handguns and with superior coatings.
Of course if you abuse a metal handgun, you can get it to stain/rust unlike the synthetic parts on a Glock.

On of the more important components of a Glock - the barrel - is how ever still made of metal and if you leave a barrel in 'less than optimal storage conditions' it will still sustain damage.

So its a moot point, you can have a gun with synthetic parts which will have a clogged barrel in a worst case scenario.

 

[BladeScout]

Even if it doesn't go that far, they'll still hold onto the gun for a long time before they eventually get around to returning it.

For me it's the worst case scenario situation that comes after needing to use it, that's a motivating factor in the decision. It's not a junk gun you wouldn't care about if you threw it away, but it's not an expensive gun that might "accidentally" get lost and you'll never get back.

Its not that I dont understand the mind set - its just that I dont share it. I realize, there are plenty who will express the same POV as you and that is fine. People should buy the guns they want and act as they want within the parametres of the law in their respective countries.

I just never got the notion of cheapo 'car guns' or that people will buy the cheapest gun, in case its held in police custody for an extended period of time or if one never gets the gun back even in a justified SD scenario.

That shouldnt be a factor in deciding for the best tool for saving ones life.

Buy the best possible tool for the job and dont worry about the tool afterwards, if it helped saving your life.

 

[moshow9]

As a CZ comparable, what do you think of the Kriss Sphinx? It is Swiss made. It comes in Standard (17+1), SDP (15+1), or Compact (13+1). Fun to shoot, accurate, and has an excellent grip. I have small to medium hands so I opted for the SDP version. Controls are similar with a decocker as it is SA/DAVID. Doesn't feel as heavy as it should.

 

[leghog]

The 226 was the first pistol I ever purchased, so it holds a lot of value to me. Unfortunately spare and replacement magazines are neither cheap, nor easy to find.

You can find Mec-Gar (who make the SIG factory mags) for $30 or less. My magazine source has Mec-Gar P226 10 round 9mm mags for $22, 18 round 9mm mags for $25, and 20 round 9mm mags for $30.

 

[BladeScout]

I'd first recommend the Sig 210 or Radom 35 Vis if they weren't stupidly expensive. Still. you really owe to yourself to handle and shoot them if given the chance. Both are among the very finest pistols ever made.

Ive shot a personal P49 and shot several variations of them for many many years (service grade, target grade long barrel etc). Its amongst the finest 9mm - if not THE finest - handgun ever produced. For target shooting, its amongst the best and most accurate of those it compare to.

It is how ever born of the WWII era and is a single stack with heel mag release unless one of the later limited vesions under new company guise or custom versions.

The wz 35 Vis is IMO one of the finest battle handguns to emerge from WWII. Its a sleeper and underrated in comparison to many of the guns from the era.

That being said and realizing that you have a fondness for vintage guns, lets not recommend WWII era handguns for SD - especially not for someone not on a budget and one who have already shelled out for a Wilson Combat.

Recommending WWII handguns over modern handguns in 2016 for SD and recommending them to someone clearly looking for a modern handgun is not a direction he might be looking for.

You can find Mec-Gar (who make the SIG factory mags) for $30 or less. My magazine source has Mec-Gar P226 10 round 9mm mags for $22, 18 round 9mm mags for $25, and 20 round 9mm mags for $30.

Yes, as mentioned in several posts already. Worth repeating though.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

all this worry about cost of a gun and it being confiscated if you need to use it in a self defense situation is ridiculous ... would you rather have the reliable gun that goes bang everytime you pull the trigger and that fits you and that you shoot accuratly and defend yourself and family ... or be in the hospital or grave because you saved a bit of money and when your home was invaded you and your family shot or killed because the gun jammed or you couldnt hit what you aimed at??? ... CZ makes a quaility firearm ... Sig Sauer makes a quailty firearm ... HK makes quality firearms ... if you want a 9mm any brand mentioned are good choices ... from my personal experience Id lean Sig but I own an HK VP9 and an HK P30 also ... I think the Sig especially if you can get the SRT trigger has the best factory trigger out of them all ... the HK being adjustable to personal hand fit is a great benifit for some people ... try to handle each if possible shoot each and see what fits you best ... and again if you are comfortable with your Wilson Combat and carrying condition 1 there are some good 9mm in 1911 platform too ... one being the new Springfield Armory EMP with 4" barrel ... I love my EMP 3" ... but you said you wanted full size

 

[leghog]

Ive shot a personal P49 and shot several variations of them for many many years (service grade, target grade long barrel etc). Its amongst the finest 9mm - if not THE finest - handgun ever produced. For target shooting, its amongst the best and most accurate of those it compare to.

It is how ever born of the WWII era and is a single stack with heel mag release unless one of the later limited vesions under new company guise or custom versions.

The wz 35 Vis is IMO one of the finest battle handguns to emerge from WWII. Its a sleeper and underrated in comparison to many of the guns from the era.

That being said and realizing that you have a fondness for vintage guns, lets not recommend WWII era handguns for SD - especially not for someone not on a budget and one who have already shelled out for a Wilson Combat.

Recommending WWII handguns over modern handguns in 2016 for SD and recommending them to someone clearly looking for a modern handgun is not a direction he might be looking for.

Very little new under the sun re handguns. I'll just as readily recommend a pre-WW2 designed firearm as I would a pre-WW1 design (M1911). For years I carried a modified U.S. Property marked Ithaca M1911A1 from 1943. Replaced it as a carry gun with a S&W M13. If something happened to my M13, I'd have no problem returning to that M1911A1 as my carry gun. And as you even stated, he already shelled out for a pre-WW1 designed autoloader.

If I were inclined to carry a 9mm I'd have no problem carrying my Hi-Power, another design from ~80 years ago.

Every firearm mentioned above was designed several decades ago and are just as appropriate for SD today as they were when first designed.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

My only complaint about the CZs is that the slide has a smaller purchase area for clearing jams. The Sig P226, HK variants, or a Glock you can just grab the whole top half of the pistol, but the CZ has a shorter (vertical direction) slide.

Glock is pretty hard to beat.... cheap, accurate, it just works. Glocks are like a microwave oven.... it ain't pretty, but it works like it's supposed to over and over and over.

 

[leghog]

... would you rather have the reliable gun that goes bang everytime you pull the trigger and that fits you and that you shoot accuratly and defend yourself and family ...

Precisely why I moved to a revolver for carry.

 

[ARTT1]

HK P30 is an excellent choice, over time it's proven to be a much better shooter than my Sig or my Glock.

 

[Maverick299]

I just traded my 226 towards a P30. Not a thing wrong with the 226, great gun, reliable, and more accurate than I will ever be. It just didn't fit my hand right. I have (had) a VP9 that my wife really likes and now wants to shoot it when we go to the range. So I figured I would grab a P30 for myself. I have short stubby fingers so the adjustable back and side straps on the HK's are a huge benefit to me. Nothing wrong with any of the guns you mentioned, but you really should get your hands on all of them before making a decision. Go to a gun store and close your eyes and have the clerk hand them to you at random, you'll know which one feels best and that way you won't be effected by brand name.

 

[BladeScout]

Very little new under the sun re handguns. I'll just as readily recommend a pre-WW2 designed firearm as I would a pre-WW1 design (M1911). For years I carried a modified U.S. Property marked Ithaca M1911A1 from 1943. Replaced it as a carry gun with a S&W M13. If something happened to my M13, I'd have no problem returning to that M1911A1 as my carry gun. And as you even stated, he already shelled out for a pre-WW1 designed autoloader.

Metallalurgy & technology has advanced quite a bit since WWII - you'd be surprised at what they have come up with.

A Wilson Combat aint your grandaddy's 1911 warhorse. Ill be sure to joke with Bill about this when next we go hunting. Should be amusing.

If I were inclined to carry a 9mm I'd have no problem carrying my Hi-Power, another design from ~80 years ago.

Every firearm mentioned above was designed several decades ago and are just as appropriate for SD today as they were when first designed.

No, of course they are not. They go bang and can of course save your life but comparing a 1911 of war time production to a Wilson Combat is preposterous.
You would of course have to have an open mind but I suspect you have already made your decision and decided to stick to it forever - no matter the facts.

Its a bit like riding motorcycles: If you dont know, I cant explain.
How ever; I will say the following - in regards to the Browning Grande Puissance...or 'Hi-Power' as you call it..., it came out before WWII and the Germans used it during WWII.
As the meticulous German high QC standard slipped, thousands of examples of poorly made Browning GPs were made.
Many ended up in the US after the War.
Recommending one of these and having one end up with a lesser example as you do is wrong and a bad example could cost somebody his life.

There are even examples of WWII handguns to directly avoid shooting. Not one mentioned in this thread prior to this, but an example is the latter day SPREE WERKE P-39.

 

[Danke42]

I wouldn't be happy with any WW II vintage Hi-Power. The trigger safety jinx's the pull and the tiny little frame safety is a nightmare to flick off.

Nighthawk Custom fixes all the problems the P-35 has and more. (I never had the hammer bite) if you're getting one now for serious use then it's the way to go.

There is no way I would take the original issue one over a modern Sig, Glock, CZ, etc.

 

[BladeScout]

The guys at Nighthawk makes nice guns and they are nice guys and gals to boot.

As for the GP/Hi-Power, Dieudonne Saive did a good designing it and its one of the premier WWI handguns. It was very advanced for its time. Nice guns.

As you mention, the trigger and the tiny safety on the Browning is atrocious. The awful trigger can be made somewhat better by removing the mag safety on some variations but then its not stock anymore and removing the mag safety is not to the liking of all.

As for hammer bite, the stock P49/210 is pretty bad in that regard as well. I never had much problem with it but plenty of others did, when shooting the P49.

Though Saive did a good job on the Browning and though its a nice gun, recommending it for SD over modern guns is of course not the done thing. If one takes SD seriously and living where allowed to defend oneself, it takes training. Training means many rounds through ones SD gun. That means wear and tear on a stock gun from WWII with thousands of rounds going through it. I dont think so.

As for refurbs/custom guns, try checking out the old Cylinder and Slide custom guns - they are great! I believe, there was also a Nowak 'Hi-Power.'

 

[ElConquistador]

How do you like the Wilson? Honestly it's going to be hard to beat with any of the suggested guns in this thread. Yes, ammo is a bit more. The difference in recoil is not that much though especially if the Wilson is a full size, steel frame, 40 oz, gun. I'd keep it. A tungsten guide rod can reduce muzzle flip and perceived recoil. A new set of grips can make it easier to hold on to.

Anyway the more I read the suggestions the more I think that Wilson is hard to beat. Any trigger is going to take some getting used to after shooting the Wilson with what I assume is a clean breaking single action trigger.

 

[leghog]

I wouldn't be happy with any WW II vintage Hi-Power. The trigger safety jinx's the pull and the tiny little frame safety is a nightmare to flick off.

I mentioned pre-WW2 design when speaking of the Hi-Power. Even a new Hi-Power is an ~80 year old design, but, again, there really is little new under the sun re firearms designs.

What do you mean by trigger safety jinxing the pull? Do you mean the magazine disconnect? Just remove that, and its effect on the trigger disappears too. re the controls on the slides of full sized pistols, I prefer them as small as possible which is why my Hi Power and M1911A1 retain them even though I've replaced many other parts in the M1911A1.