AEB-L and toughness in larger blades.

Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.

Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.

Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
3,734
Hey guys,

I make alot of hard use machetes from 52100 and they work great but I have been interested in using a stainless steel for people who live near salt water and want a hard use tool that is also resistant to corrosion.

I looked into steels like ELMAX and CPM 154 and a few others but for the most part the cost is just too high and there are still concerns with toughness and flexibility with stainless steels in long, thin blades.

Then I was introduced to AEB-L by Aldo. I did some further reading and was interested to see that it forms no chromium carbides and has enough free chromium to make it truly stainless. It seemed to me like it was more or less 1070 with free chromium.

After ordering up some .130 stock I made a machete and had Peters HT it to 58 at the edge with a spring tempered spine.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, I haven't done extensive testing with this steel but it really seems to perform like 1070....while also being stainless.

First test I wanted to make sure it wouldn't break in half on me so I stuck it in a stump and gave it a few good bends. It can do 45+ degrees easy and come back true.

I did some chops into frozen hard wood and the edge help up without a problem.

Next I chopped it through a steel barrel 6 times. I wish I would have taken a picture but it suffered almost no edge damage--really impressive stuff.

I will report back after more extensive use but this steel really seems promising for bigger blades that need to be stainless.

20140217_132635_zps09c9dc4e.jpg
 
Check out Gavko's youtube playlist where people are putting his big choppers to hard use on everything from branches to 2x6's. Most of them are AEB-L.
 
For being as simple as it is chemically, it's really a pretty fascinating alloy. :thumbup:
 
It's not really a "find"... it's one of the oldest stainless alloys out there (reportedly patented in 1928). AEB-L was originally developed for razor blades. As Hunter mentioned, the moderate amount of carbon means that it forms very few carbides, making for extremely fine grain... on a par with plain carbon steels. Nearly all the chrome is "free" for stain-resistance.

Although it's fairly uncommon in hunting/tactical/survival knives (for reasons that are not entirely clear to me), it's widely popular in kitchen cutlery.

I think Hunter is really onto something, using it in a machete. I'd love to compare it side-by-side with CPM-154 and Elmax in heavier knives, but finding thick stock is problematic.
 
Hunter,

You may want to look into 12c27 and the 12c27m. As good as AEB-L performs in larger knives, these should do a bit better, and cost less. They are meant to be tougher than AEB-L. And you're not really leaving anything on the table with them. Where as AEB-L works well at 58 in a chopper, it is really meant to shine at mid 60's. 12c27m is designed to be run in that high 50's range, and is also more corrosion resistant.

Honestly, I'm glad you're not using Elmax or CPM154...while they can function fine is knives, the things they bring to the table offer no advantages for a large chopping blade where impact is the primary mode of edge loss and only bring negatives with respect to the cost
 
I've been using it for bird & trout and classic hunters. I'm supposed at how tough it is for what it is. Ive cut up plenty of fish bones and all with no damage what so ever. It also gets screaming sharp
 
It's so interesting that 440c is considered "inferior" while AEBL is considered "conteporary," when it's been around since my elderly mom was a toddler. (The British Stainless Steels article puts the research that developed 440c and "very low carbon knife steels" well before WW1.)
All these modern steels are really great to have, I'm happy to live in this era.
AEBL is supposed to be inexpensive, but my Google Mojo must be bad because I haven't seen a significant price break for using AEBL over other stainless.
All that aside, when I find some in the dimensions I want I can't wait to use it- looks like a wonderful material.

If someone came up with 440c now, it would be lauded as the best blend of usability (stability in use but easier for the average user to maintain) and great corrosion resistance.
"An advanced steel with all the good qualities of other steel plus ease of maintenance!"
I can see the ad copy now. :)
 
I have been thinking about AEB-L but thought there must be a reason it isn't used more for hunters and skinners. I will probably order a bar today to play with. Does it need full cryo, or just sub zero?
 
I made a kitchen knife from the stuff and I really really like it... but I spent a fortune having it heat treated. Most places will give it a generic heat treat (which might be good for hard use knives) pretty cheap but when you ask them to get it really hard the price starts going up. Probably a lot better in batches. I would have to look but I think I paid around $50 after shipping both ways etc... for my gyuto to be done... and on top of that it came back warped... but that's another story.
 
Sandvick copied AEB-L more or less and calls it 13c26. I have never been a stainless fan until I was introduced to the higher end stainless steels like VG10, ATS34/154cm, and 440c (if you want to call it higher end) in Benchmade's Kitchen knives. The only "stainless" I was familiar with were 440a and Chicago cutlery type stainless. Then I came across this Kershaw Leek that has Sandvick's 13c26 and I was blown away (I think they went from 440a to 13c26 to now 14c28). What an amazingly keen edge, and super easy to get that edge, and it stays super keen for a very long time....at least that has been my experience with it. Corrosion resistance is awesome.....as I've left it covered in blood for a day or two.....no problem at all. Cleaned up like it was brand new. I'm in love with the stuff, and plan on using it once I can get a ht oven that goes to stainless temps. I had no idea that it would make such a good large blade as well. That's awesome!!! I can't believe the bend in that photo!!!
 
AEB-L is awesome. Very fine grained stuff. It is inexpensive and a joy to grind as well.

It isn't as popular because people tend to scoff at what they don't know.

440c is also awesome, and isn't popular thanks to flea market knives and folks who don't know how to heat treat.
 
Did some more testing today. This is a really tough steel. I don't think it takes damage quite as well as 52100 but then again few steels do. It certainly behaves like a simple high carbon steel. If you asked me to guess what steel it was after my tests today I'd probably say something like 1060 or 1070. I think AEB-L is about as tough as a similar alloy content carbon steel.

I gave it a few really deep bends today and it came back true without issue. I actually got it near 90 degrees but had a hard time getting a pic of it one handed.

20140219_135238_1_bestshot_zps0d08c544.jpg


Next I thinned down the edge a bit and gave it a bunch of chops into a steel barrel. This damaged the edge pretty badly but As thin as I had the edge I don't think many steels could do that without taking considerable damage.

20140219_135738_zpsa775ac1a.jpg


20140219_135546_zpsb9070312.jpg


Finally I chopped some nails that were in a 2x4. The edge again suffered damage but not very much.

Edge post nail chopping. Every time I hit a nail I got a small chip. I didn't have a good setup though and bet it would do much better with a secure target and a handle :thumbup:

20140219_141556_zps7221b965.jpg
 
I recently tested two very thinly ground .070" AEB-L knives and was beyond impressed. Tough and very good edge holding... I'll be buying more! I was testing my heat treat and was hard on them but they took it all and left with a scary sharp edge. I'm using it for hunters and kitchen knives and heat treating for edge holding.
 
Daniel Fairly Knives said:
I recently tested two very thinly ground .070" AEB-L knives and was beyond impressed. Tough and very good edge holding... I'll be buying more! I was testing my heat treat and was hard on them but they took it all and left with a scary sharp edge. I'm using it for hunters and kitchen knives and heat treating for edge holding.
Click to expand...

I just picked up some .070 myself for kitchen knives and plan to get some .130 for some hunters and things. What hardness are you suggesting is best for edge holding and could you possibly give me any advice on your heat treat process. I am sending mine out for ht but am very curious how you go about getting your best performance
 
AEB-L/13C26 has always been and still is my favorite SS. I was fortunate enough to be introduced to its qualities not long after I started making knives. Johnny Warner turned me on to it. He lived in AK for years and has dressed/skinned literally hundreds of animals. He gave me a sheet of it in .145" (yes it exists but its very rare) to play with and I fell in love with it.
As far as H/T, this is what works for me. I ran this by Devin Thomas and he says this is exactly how he treats it except he uses LN and I use dry ice & alcohol.
1. Heat to 1950 and soak for 30 min..
2. Plate quench.
3. As soon as you can handle it remove it from the foil and correct any warpage.
4. Water quench to room temp..
5. Sub-zero freeze or LN cryo.
6. Temper twice for 2 hours each time. Temper between 350 & 500 depending on your equipment and desired hardness.

-95 is all you need to convert any RA but if you have LN why not use it.
 
I have been making kitchen knives using AEB-L. It grinds well, specially when you want to put some convex into the blade and need sharp belts. It takes a fine edge like carbon steels The performance, sharpen ability, and edge holding is spot on for a kitchen knife. IMO I want to make a hunter in this steel, and I think it would make a great carving/bushcraft knife.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top