African Blackwood vs Ebony

quattromori said:
phvc.jpg
Click to expand...

That is sweet! It is so perfect it does look composite - but that is a beauty.
 
Indeed. At first I thought those covers were black paper micarta.

- Christian
 
LEOGREG said:
I think I can "put my finger on it" Jon. African Blackwood is so hard, black, dense and glossy that at first glance it can be easily mistaken for a synthetic like Delrin. Nobody wants a premium knife with artificial scales.
Click to expand...

bingo! yes, the fact that I can see into the material as if it was partly transparent bugs the hell out of me. And its super slick too.

Ebony otoh, looks and feels like really nice wood to me. But I dont care for the chocolate striped versions, Im there for the Black.

arizonaranchman said:
Does the high natural oil content in Afr Blkwd give it a degree of protection from moisture and/or perspiration then?

Is a light coating of mineral oil (or what would you guys suggest) on these blackwood scales good now n then? Or just leave it alone?
Click to expand...

Yes the density of Blackwood and Ebony means they do not need to be stabilized with acrylic. It also means the material is very durable, even when left underwater for centuries.

However, I play with my knives. I sand them with 1500 grit all over. I oil them with mineral oil. Sometimes I use butcher block oil which is mineral plus carnuba plus beeswax. I also have used Tuff Cloth, which has both mineral spirits and microcrystaline wax. I have even used my strop with both green and red rouge on my handles. But the absolutely most amazing shiny sealed surface I have obtained is from using something Stich told me about, called Sunshine cloth, which has aluminum oxide plus wax.

here are a few pics a macassar boys knife, a gabon single spear, and a blackwood sheep with pen, though you really need to handle the materials to get a feel. And the OP already has lots of ebony, so all he needs is to roll the dice and buy a blackwood, then post pics :-)

water basically beads up now
IMG_7383.JPG


left to right, blackwood, gabon, macassar
IMG_7386.JPG


gabon, macassar, blackwood
IMG_7384.JPG


macassar, blackwood, gabon
IMG_7385.JPG
 
coyote711 said:
I see GEC has had a few runs of late with African Blackwood covers. I have a fair number of GEC knives with Ebony covers and I like 'em - and the blacker the better. I'd like to know how African Blackwood compares to Ebony - Harder wood? Tighter grain? Less streaking? Blacker? Thanks for any insight! ;)
Click to expand...

Great thread. IMO and I am not an expert,but have worked with both woods,putting scales on straight knives,here is my findings.

Yes the Ebony has tight,almost no grain,and is stable. But I have seen it being professionally stabilized,while never seeing or hearing about blackwood being stabilized.

African blackwood,IMO ,is harder ,and more durable,less prone to moving. Has more oils in the wood,naturally,too.
 
VCM3 said:
Ebony has tight,almost no grain,and is stable. But I have seen it being professionally stabilized,while never seeing or hearing about blackwood being stabilized.
Click to expand...

interesting observation. Maybe there is a tie in to the fact that Acrylic has a density of 74, so blackwood at 75 is denser, and ebony is less dense than Acrylic. By the way, the density of water is 62 pounds per cubic foot. Since ebony is 65, it sinks, more slowly than blackwood :-)

yes, some ebony gets stabilized. Jury is still out on whether GEC macassar is stabilized or not.
 
As to color, if I have a knife with ebony covers and to my eye there is too much brown in the wood, I'll put a dab of black Min-Wax on the edge of my thumb and rub it into the wood. It works very well and it works as a good sealer. I have no experience with African Blackwood.
 
Not to argue with an entire thread, sorry guys, but the old growth ebony has a much tighter grain and can be far blacker than any blackwood could ever match. Ever see a nice old Steinway piano c.1900 roughly. Ebony is by far the premium. Comparing new ebony and blackwood is apples and oranges compared to old ebony and blackwood.
 
I have two of GEC's ebony knives, which according to this thread must be Macassar ebony.
Both are just about pure black, but both also show distinct grain.

2013 Boy's Knife
15BKopen_zps69348fd6.jpg~original


2011 Cuban Stockman
EbonyCuban.jpg~original
 
knifeswapper said:
As a whole, the Blackwood comes more consistently black and the Ebony comes with a bit of brown streaking. The Blackwood seems to have a tighter grain and the factory says it tests a bit more dense.
Click to expand...


I bet the ebony with brown streaks is the new growth stuff Brad speaks of
 
Wow, this thread is turning into quite an education! Thanks again to everyone who has contributed so far! :thumbup:

Here's a not-so-good pic of my Ebony knives. I guess I have to take back my comment that the SFO Conductor is the "tightest, blackest, most streak-free" one I have ….. looks like Charlie's TC Barlow may take the prize there. ;)

I may still have to try something in African Blackwood - just not sure I like any of the current pattern offerings available. Leaning towards the #48 Improved Trapper, but not sure I'd like the feel-in-hand when using the clip blade - I'm not a big fan of the wharnie's tall profile when it's closed. :confused:

Thanks yet again for the comments & pics - keep 'em coming! :D


 
Last edited:
The ebony may not be as water resistant as the blackwood but it's still plenty water resistant. This one ended up going through the dishwasher when a dinner guest thought they'd help clean up after dinner. I had not oiled or treated the wood in any way beforehand and afterward, let it dry out over night and then rubbed a little mineral oil on it.




I was initially drawn into traditionals by the solid dark ebony GECs. Most of the ones I acquired 6 to 12 months ago are more or less uniformly dark brown or black with occasional very dark brown streaks. It seems to me though that the ones that I've acquired over the past 3-4 months are much more variable appearing more brown rather than dark brown like the 92 below.



This ebony 73 is the real outlier though and the only one I've received out of 15 or so that is distinctly macassar.



 
I remember, as a kid, glistening black ebony. Glistening and shiny as the densest coal... It was already a forbidden export. Whatever, I can be quite happy with today's offering. Got some knives in dark black satin grained ebony... what a treat. Others have grain and brown veins... some activity is nice and the wood is still very stable. Nonetheless, the blacker, denser and smoother it is... the better !
 
This is the only ebony I have:
It's certainly more brown than black. Pretty, but nothing like I remember piano keys.

jackodiamonds007_zps4518d801.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
coyote711 said:
"tightest, blackest, most streak-free" one I have ….. looks like Charlie's TC Barlow may take the prize there. ;)
Click to expand...

the first run was macassar, they have a tang stamp number ending in 12, Clip and Spear point blades. The second run was Gabon, also Clip and Spear point blades, stamp ends in 13. Some 2nd run two bladed ones, were pen behind, the way my Case peanut is set up. Third run is blackwood, also tang stamp ending 13, all blades are Sheepfoot.

notes collected from online sites about blackwood and ebony
====
Off the top of my head, Gabon Ebony has a density of 63 pounds per cubic foot, Macassar 65, and blackwood 75. Water has a density of 62, so anything higher, sinks.

Macassar is known most for having light colored streaks, though both Gabon and Blackwood can also exhibit non black portions less frequently.

Gabon is on the equator, in West Africa. Blackwood comes from the equator also, but East Africa including Tanzania and Kenya. Macassar ebony, also known as Indian ebony or golden ebony, comes from the Celebes Islands, Indonesia, New Guinea and the Philippines.

---

Gabon Ebony has a more matte appearance and is more brittle than African Blackwood.
Compared to Gabon Ebony, African Blackwood looks glossier, feels slicker, and has a reflective translucent color with a very subtle hint of red.

Jamaican, Cuban and East African Ebony are all related to each other and to cocobolo. Jamaican Ebony belongs to a group of trees called cocuswood or also grenadilla, these dense woods have excellent tonal qualities, particularly for woodwind instruments, including bagpipes.

African Blackwood is in the Fabaceae Family (along with peas, peanuts and cocobolo), Genus Dalbergia

Gabon Ebony is in the Ebanacea Family, Genus Diosporus

----

Dalbergia melanoxylon (African Blackwood, Grenadilla, or Mpingo) is a flowering plant in the family Fabaceae,

African Blackwood is no longer regarded as ebony, a name now reserved for a limited number of timbers yielded by the genus Diospyros; these are more of a matte appearance and are more brittle.
The genus Dalbergia yields other famous timbers such as Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra), Dalbergia cearensis and cocobolo (Dalbergia retusa).

Cocuswood (also sometimes spelled "coccuswood") is one of the classic woods, one of the first exports from the West Indies to Europe. It is sometimes called Jamaican ebony.

Cocuswood is a very dense tropical hardwood with excellent tone quality. It was used a lot for making flutes in England and France especially during the 19th century.[1] It is still occasionally used for reeded wooden musical instruments such as bagpipes, clarinets and oboes

---
The tonal qualities of African Blackwood are particularly valued when used in woodwind instruments, principally clarinets, oboes, transverse flutes, piccolos, Highland pipes, and Northumbrian pipes.[2] Deering Banjo Company uses Blackwood ("grenadilla") to construct the tone ring in its John Hartford model banjo. Deering indicates that this reduces weight versus brass/bronze tone rings, and that the wood "plays in" (improves in tone) with use. Furniture makers from the time of the Egyptians have valued this timber. A story states that it has even been used as ballast in trading ships and that some enterprising Northumbrian pipe makers used old discarded Blackwood ballast to great effect.
---

African Blackwood (Dalbergia melanoxylon) is often mistaken for ebony as it is a dense fine grained black wood—but ebony is matte black as opposed to African Blackwood, which has a reflective translucent quality in its grain. Both timbers are valuable for their decorative and structural qualities, particularly in musical instruments. African Blackwood is used in clarinets and similar woodwind instruments because of its tonal quality, and Ebony is used for piano keys, violin finger boards, tuning pegs and chinrests, and in guitar fingerboards because of its resistance to wear.
---

gabon ebony
The wood this particular tree produces is believed to be the blackest of all timber-producing Diospyros species, and the heartwood from this tree has been in extremely high demand since ancient Egyptian times.[2] It is hard and durable with very fine pores, and it polishes to a high luster. It is used to make sculptures, carvings, pool cues, doorknobs, tool and knife handles, gun grips, the black keys on pianos, organ-stops, guitar fingerboards and bridges, and chess pieces. It is the wood of choice for the fingerboards, tailpieces, and tuning pegs used on all orchestral stringed instruments, including violins, violas, cellos, and double basses.
====
 
Modoc ED said:
As to color, if I have a knife with ebony covers and to my eye there is too much brown in the wood, I'll put a dab of black Min-Wax on the edge of my thumb and rub it into the wood. It works very well and it works as a good sealer. I have no experience with African Blackwood.
Click to expand...

"Black Min-Wax" As in stain, or is there a wax/sealer that you are using?
 
Modoc ED said:
As to color, if I have a knife with ebony covers and to my eye there is too much brown in the wood, I'll put a dab of black Min-Wax on the edge of my thumb and rub it into the wood. It works very well and it works as a good sealer. I have no experience with African Blackwood.
Click to expand...

Ed, Will the black Min-Wax cover the brown in the ebony handles when you do this? If yes, how long does it last? Does it wear off? I would prefer to have almost jet black handles for my ebony. I just got my first african blackwood handles #81 and I really like it.

Thanks tom
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top