Again, gear is no replacement for real-world skills...

Survival is no game. Solo hiking/camping is a crap shoot, everytime. Winter is the least forgiving season. I have posted my own challenges on this forum and although it may look as if I've pitted myself against nature, THEY ARE VERY CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS. Infact, 80% of my time in the woods is spent making a "safe site"... the other 20% can be considered "extending my comfort zone". Never allow yourself to get cornered into a situation. Like many others have said already, you may choose not to use much of your gear.... but bring it anyway.

I have simulated firestarting in the Winter, being cold and wet... IT IS A NIGHTMARE! Don't fool yourself into thinking that survival isn't. You will hate it, absolutely. If you glide through it, you were never in that situation to begin with.

I toy with the thought of going out on my own once in a while. When I think of the bushcraft, nature and the challenge, its quite appealling. Then I go out with my teacher and he brings me to the edge of my comfort zone.... and I swear to you that I choke back the tears and promise myself that "This is the last time I ever train like this." I see the reality of it once again, and the urgency of proper mentoring.

I have noticed that over time, the mind tends to downplay the dangers and you focus more on the triumphs and the sense of accomplishment in past adventures. I think it is important to have that harsh dose of reality... administered in a controlled environment, of course.

Rick
 
For some good training, start going out for outings in the wild with NOTHING except the cloths on your back, it's not hard to survive with tons of gear. If you can make it with nothing, it will be a snap when you have your gear.
 
I don't think Les' show portrays survival as fun or glamourous. He always looks miserable on the verge of starving and can't wait till the time is up to go home and shower and eat.

Bear's show on the other hand.........

But this guy was not very smart doing his trip in winter for one and he said call police if I don't return by Sunday night. She didnt call till Monday morning. Who knows if that played a part.

But like people who jump out of perfectly good airplanes or swim in shark infested waters there is no reason to boo hoo his death. He died doing what he wanted it wasn't some freak accident. He knew the risks and was willing to pay them. It may smack of Dawinism but hey I guess some folks walk a higher path ;)

These shows make me want to try and see if I have what it takes to survive and I am going to try it. BUT I will bring a tent and bug spray. I will camp next to a body of water with fish in it and bring a fishing kit. It will be where I have cell service. And people will know exactly where I'll be since they will drop me off. And it isn't so remote that there won't be others camping around me to ask for help if I need it. I am just not bringing any food, water or matches.

Not very realistic I guess but hey I know my limitations ;)

I actually got Hypothermia on a canoe trip in May. I had on shorts and a t shirt with a hoody sweatshirt. Got dumped in the river twice it was really really cold. Someone gave me a poncho to put on which helped keep my heat in. It was a few more miles down river to the take out. I was shivering uncontrallably, the other guys on the trip wanted to pull over and start a fire but I wanted to just get to the end and tough it out. When we got to the take out I stepped in what I thought was knee deep water and immediately sunk up to my thigh in mud. Canoe tipped over and no matter what I didn't have the strength to pull myself out. If I had been alone I would have died right there. They had to pull me out. By then I was shivering severely uncontrollably, could barely walk, my lower back and kidney area was cramping horribly causing me to bend over and shuffle. But being a dumb guy I didn't want to look like a weak punk ass in front of 17 other men, who were already ribbing me that I had tipped over and couldn't even put my own canoe on a truck. It getting dark so no one really could see the trouble I was really in. Then this guy from Buffalo, Dana came up to me and looked close and said holy shit we gotta get this guy warm. He threw me in a truck with the heat on full, threw blankets on me and got me back to camp and in my sleeping bag in my tent. The thing I remember most is how my mind didn't seem to work right. That I made stupid decisions like not asking for help, and how hard at the end of the trip it was to coordinate anything. Even shuffling was a chore. I can't imagine trying to build a shelter or fire or anything like that while hypothermic.
 
Last edited:
udtjim said:
For some good training, start going out for outings in the wild with NOTHING except the cloths on your back, it's not hard to survive with tons of gear. If you can make it with nothing, it will be a snap when you have your gear.
Click to expand...

Or go naked... then if you have clothes its even easier!
 
udtjim said:
For some good training, start going out for outings in the wild with NOTHING except the cloths on your back, it's not hard to survive with tons of gear. If you can make it with nothing, it will be a snap when you have your gear.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much exactly what got this guy killed.


Instead, if you want to TRAIN - start going out with your gear, but trying not to use any of it. Still have the gear as a backup plan for an emergency situation, but avoid using it unless you have no other option.
 
"call police if I don't return by Sunday night. She didnt call till Monday morning. Who knows if that played a part."

At least he told someone... Who knows, maybe the weather turned and he got more than he bargained for.

"He died doing what he wanted it wasn't some freak accident. He knew the risks and was willing to pay them."

You know... there may be something to that. Maybe I would rather go out like that then a lot of other ways. Seems a shame though, seems like a decent guy who made a bad call. Shoot, could happen on the highway in the blink of an eye.
 
MustardMan said:
That's pretty much exactly what got this guy killed.


Instead, if you want to TRAIN - start going out with your gear, but trying not to use any of it. Still have the gear as a backup plan for an emergency situation, but avoid using it unless you have no other option.
Click to expand...

+1:thumbup: And do always let folks know where you are going and when you should be back.
 
Magnussen said:
Survival is no game. Solo hiking/camping is a crap shoot, everytime. Winter is the least forgiving season. I have posted my own challenges on this forum and although it may look as if I've pitted myself against nature, THEY ARE VERY CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS. Infact, 80% of my time in the woods is spent making a "safe site"... the other 20% can be considered "extending my comfort zone".

Rick
Click to expand...

Oh I agree, but...

It is a game. Its just if you lose, you get injured or die. All the training, skills gear and technique sometimes do not tip the odds enough in your favor.
Somepeople take their games more serious than others.

A Little girl who's plane crashed into the jungle survives the green hell with nothing for days. The man in the article goes in with some gear and knowledge and he dies over the weekend. Balance risk vs. reward and usually your ok but sometimes your just boned. Life is dangerous.
 
Jeff Venture said:
Oh I agree, but...

It is a game.
Click to expand...

No it's not... but I suppose it is relative to your definition of survival. Perhaps we have different definitions. Playing "bush" is a game. We do it all the time you drive in your car to a trail head grab your gear and trek away. Maybe you make a natural shelter, start a fire, carve a spoon. You might bring less food, thinking you can forage a bit. If the temperature drops you may spend an uncomfortable night, you might be hungry, you'll most likely be tired and cold. That is "playing" to me. "Surviving" means something very different, IMO. I'm sure the guy in the article would agree if he was still alive. When you don't have an alternative plan of action.... if all you can do is curl up into your washed out firepit for the little warmth that the smoldering dirt offers.... if all you can do is watch as your trekking buddy slowly stops shivering and slips into hypothermic shock.... if all you can do is hope that someone is coming because your hands just won't work anymore..... if everything around you is telling you you're going to die... but your heart just won't lie down.... THAT'S SURVIVAL.... everything else is just a game.

Sorry I'm so serious... but I had just a small taste of it... and I felt no adrenaline dump... no sense of adventure... no rise to the occasion... there was only desparation, panic, anger, fear and regret... AND I had someone watching over me through it all.

Maybe I'm just a big wussy.:p



Rick
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Maybe he thought things were so bad, he wanted to get away and try something he always wanted to try -- and he might be just fine with the idea that failing meant dying.
Click to expand...


I fully feel that MMA fighter Evan Tanner went through the same with that intention.

akthor said:
But like people who jump out of perfectly good airplanes or swim in shark infested waters there is no reason to boo hoo his death. He died doing what he wanted it wasn't some freak accident. He knew the risks and was willing to pay them. It may smack of Dawinism but hey I guess some folks walk a higher path ;)
Click to expand...

I fully agree. When I was lying in the field after my skydive accident I fully realized that my CHOICE to get on the plane got me into the mess I was in and that I had nobody to blame but myself. That is where we have to choose to shut ourselves in or live with the risk of having fun.

I have had a couple of instances where things could have gone very wrong while I was close to people, so when out of civilization I am extra careful, prepared with both gear and contingency plans if things go down. Nothing like realizing what will happen if you fell off of the cliff you are on when 800 miles away from the nearest town in the tundra!
 
I'd like to hear "the rest of the story". Hopefully there will be some follow up to the report.

Either way in my opinion practicing survival skills is important. Regardless - I'm bringing a tent and a sleeping bag in a winter scenario. Stuff happens - I could break my leg, cut myself, whatever. Having a fall back plan to protect my life seems like a realistic and common sense thing to do. Can I make a lean to shelter? Sure. Build a fire? Absolutely. Yet I know that things can happen so some basic preparation is necessary.

Surviving in a real life situation is just that. It is in times like this you focus on the absolute life saving necessities - shelter, water, fire, food. All else becomes wants and not real needs. It would have been a great ending if they had found him injured but alive because he took necessary steps to sustain life. I'm sorry for his family. Perhaps we'll found out the rest of the story....
 
Sad story. Bring your kit, and try not to use it, is a good plan, as I can attest. Overall, I want to here the rest of the story, I wonder if he fell ill, or he had a heart attack. Until the docs check him out, we dont know.
I agree with most of what was said. Training and gear are both important..yes, if you are ready and trained, you can go without gear, but you can do so much more with gear...actually have some fun.
G
 
I hate all the finger pointing-oh he should have had better gear, or oh, he didn't know what he was doing, or oh, he should have done more research... SURVIVAL is literally the difference between life and death. If you recreate on the fringe, you should already come to terms with yourself that this could be the last time you step foot out your door. That's why I like minimalism so much, the unknown, the adventure, and the living in the moment. It's not for everyone, obviously, but if someone dies recreating in the backcountry it doesn't automatically mean he did anything wrong. There are places on this earth that you can do everything 100% right with all the right equipment and STILL die. It's nothing against the victim, and I am personally getting sick of all of these threads about 'stupid' people in the wilderness.
 
Evan Tanner really didn't care either way he took just enough to survive if everything went right, he knew if one thing went wrong it was over for him. I think at that point in his life he just didn't care. So many little things he could have done to make sure he made it back. That's why so many think it might have been suicide.
 
That's a sad story indeed. I think with all the training as well as all the correct gear we need good solid common sense. alot of people are forgetting plain old common sense.

I have a saying I use alot: "I'm very confident in what I know and very comfortable with what I don't"

What I mean by that is, I feel very confident and trust what I know and what I'm trained in. as much as I like to push myself I also know where that very light thin line is and know when to stop and not cross it. I also feel comfortable to say "I don't know" or "I can't do that" and feel I don't have to be something I'm not and pretend to be more or know more than what I know.
 
Jesus, where was I.........thought evan tanner retired, sad for him and this new unfortunate.
People have teased me about my 2lb first aid and 4lb survival kit that I take even on dayhikes........It is not gonna be me covered in snow till spring if I have any say in it.
 
Just my random guess, but I bet he got wet when he wasn't planning to. They said something about marshes I believe. I bet he fell in, managed to pull himself out, but with no bag, no change of clothes and no fire already going, it was too much to overcome. Like I said, just a guess, but it seems most likely...
 
Jack London said it all in "To build A Fire."

The guy was told it was foolish to travel the winter wilderness alone.
 
Seems to me no one can pass judgement till we know the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey says. Maybe he fell and hurt himself, or for all we know had a heart attack.The only real mistake I see him making is going alone. Other than that, he posted a trip plan with locations, times and dates and took equipment. Seems to me that is about all anyone can do. Chris
 
Last edited:
The one time in my life I was seriously stranded in a blizzard, good cold weather gear saved my life..

and a couple of dense paperbacks saved my sanity. 3 days stuck with 4 foot drifts, and I would have gone nuts just twiddling my thumbs. Warm is certainly the big half, and I never appreciated an over-built bag as much before or since.. but you have to DO something or after awhile you'll be doing calesthenics in the snow just outa boredom.

I have one book on metallurgy that I'm saving for a REAL stuck spot.. I figure it's good for a week at least. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top