Again, gear is no replacement for real-world skills...

philwar said:
I understand the the OP's meaning but the title isn't accurate. This person does not appear to have had much gear on him, aside from his lack of actual skills.
A good tent and sleeping bag would probably have saved his life, regardless of his survival skills.
I totally subscribe to the 'skills before gear' philosophy. It's just that with even very rudimentary camping skills (most people will succeed in erecting a tent or lighting a camping stove unless there's a hurricane blowing) a bit of proper camping kit would have saved this man's life.
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Even someone with little to no training with a tent and sleeping bag may have survived, knowledge is great but some equipment does help and would have helped this guy. Even a Survival expert that falls in ice cold water may have a hard time getting a fire going and stopping hypothermia.


RickJ
 
August West said:
Seems to me no one can pass judgement till we know the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey says. Maybe he fell and hurt himself, or for all we know had a heart attack.The only real mistake I see him making is going alone. Other than that, he posted a trip plan with locations, times and dates and took equipment. Seems to me that is about all anyone can do. Chris
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:thumbup:
 
I live in the same hometown as this guy did, basically, and I can attest that Friday and Saturday here in this area (Muskoka is about 90 minutes north of here) it was VERY wet and rainy/snowy Friday and Saturday. Very typical hypothermia weather. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what did him in.
 
The Story of Evan Tanner:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,419161,00.html

The important quote:

Tanner described his fascination with the desert and his preparations for the trip.

"I plan on going so deep into the desert that any failure of my equipment could cost me my life," he wrote.


Brad "the butcher";7941380 said:
Jesus, where was I.........thought evan tanner retired, sad for him and this new unfortunate.
People have teased me about my 2lb first aid and 4lb survival kit that I take even on dayhikes........It is not gonna be me covered in snow till spring if I have any say in it.
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“TV abstracts the real ugliness of survival,” said Ferri, who runs a school called Survival in the Bush and trained Stroud back in the day. “They make the wilderness look like it’s a romantic place. Well, it’s romantic, as long as you have all your gear and you’re camping and enjoying it. In a survival situation, it’s a nightmare.”
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I guess that guy never actually watched Survivorman. Rarely did Stroud not look completely miserable, and he had oodles of training, not to mention a full support crew in case of an emergency. I wouldn't say that going a week while eating grubs, having precious little water, going with little to no gear, etc. is a very enjoyable experience, even when seen through a rosy camera lens. Could I survive such a situation? Yeah, probably. Would I put myself into such a situation? No, I would not.
 
Gino Ferri trained Stroud, Stroud sent him tapes of the show for his advice.
 
PayetteRucker said:
There are places on this earth that you can do everything 100% right with all the right equipment and STILL die. It's nothing against the victim, and I am personally getting sick of all of these threads about 'stupid' people in the wilderness.
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There are indeed places and circumstances where it won't make any difference who you are, what you can do and what you have with you.
Those circumstances are pretty rare however. The rest of the time (being 98% or so), preparation (in all its forms) makes ALL the difference.

This man did not need to die, and I doubt very much that he intended to, or was even 'ok' with it. I feel bad for his family. But the circumstances in which he died do not sound like the type in which it wouldn't have made any difference if he was Joe Blow or a SERE instructor. From the admittedly very limited info we have it sounds like even minimal preparation would have enabled this man to survive.

I don't call him stupid. But his death was preventable, rather easily in fact.
 
philwar said:
I don't call him stupid. But his death was preventable, rather easily in fact.
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Until we know what killed him and if he had any other serious injuries we really can't say that. My wife works in an ER, couple nights ago they had a physically fit 42 year old male DOA, heart attack while playing basketball with his friends, that is not preventable. Broken ankle 5 miles from the trail head in bad weather, again not preventable. Chris

EDIT: Toronto police say a post-mortem will take place, likely Friday.
 
Yeah, think it's just a tragic accident. The guy had some experience in the outdoors and we really don't know the level of skill he acquired on his own. He knew the risks and made adequate preparation...at the end of the day, it sounds like he just went too far and under conditions he wasn't quite ready for.

I don't blame TV shows and I doubt this gentleman would blame his death on them either. I believe in personal reasonability and that's what we often over look.

Rick brings up several good points. Even when I went out to practice cold weather "primitive" camping, I had a tent up and fire ready to go before attempting anything. I don't disagree with solo trips as I often found them them very enjoyable, but I much prefer to have a buddy. My son and I have a few primitive trips we're going to attempt, but we'll be close to the house and have a backup plan for safety.

No matter how many precautions, safety checks and risk-mitigation controls you put into place, accidents happen and unforeseen crap always surfaces...we call it Mr. Murphy in the military. The less trained and prepared you rare just make his job a little easier.

It's easy to blame reality or even documentary type shows. How many times in the past have I heard "I can do that, I read how to in a book". It's not about what you watch, see, read or even have knowledge of...it's about skill developed through practice, experiences and even (controlled) failures.

ROCK6
 
Magnussen said:
Survival is no game. Solo hiking/camping is a crap shoot, everytime. Winter is the least forgiving season. I have posted my own challenges on this forum and although it may look as if I've pitted myself against nature, THEY ARE VERY CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS. Infact, 80% of my time in the woods is spent making a "safe site"... the other 20% can be considered "extending my comfort zone". Never allow yourself to get cornered into a situation. Like many others have said already, you may choose not to use much of your gear.... but bring it anyway.

I have simulated firestarting in the Winter, being cold and wet... IT IS A NIGHTMARE! Don't fool yourself into thinking that survival isn't. You will hate it, absolutely. If you glide through it, you were never in that situation to begin with.

I toy with the thought of going out on my own once in a while. When I think of the bushcraft, nature and the challenge, its quite appealling. Then I go out with my teacher and he brings me to the edge of my comfort zone.... and I swear to you that I choke back the tears and promise myself that "This is the last time I ever train like this." I see the reality of it once again, and the urgency of proper mentoring.

I have noticed that over time, the mind tends to downplay the dangers and you focus more on the triumphs and the sense of accomplishment in past adventures. I think it is important to have that harsh dose of reality... administered in a controlled environment, of course.

Rick
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Well said!:thumbup:
 
jackknife said:
Jack London said it all in "To build A Fire."

The guy was told it was foolish to travel the winter wilderness alone.
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Thank you!!! I have been trying to find this story for 3 weeks ever since I remembered it trying to think of the creamation of Dan Mcgee.
 
I grew up in this area (Muskoka), and have never had a problem getting a fire going in winter or summer, there is a healthy supply of tinder (old man's beard, birch bark) and dead dry wood (lower evergreen branches). So I am just speculating here, but I guess he had no matches/lighter, and perhaps thought that he could light a fire in the traditional manner, which most people here will tell you, it's difficult to do at the best of times under ideal conditions.

If he built a snow shelter (or quonset as we call them here), which would be the most sensible thing to do in this area in the winter, it's pretty hard to avoid getting wet during the construction, and if you are lucky enough to get it warmed up above freezing inside, it is impossible to stay dry, and without a sleeping bag / fire you are still in that dangerous hypothermia zone (~<15c)

So without fire, your chances of survival are not good, and it was -12c that night.

It's also a possiblity that there were other health issues at play, or even that he wanted this to happen.

And we don't know the whole story yet, it may be no coincidence that it happened near Huntsville, this is where Les Stroud lives and he has shot a couple of episodes close to there...
 
Not confirmed yet..... but I heard he had suffered from a form of arthritis that leaves you extremely weakened at times.... Anyone have an update?


Rick
 
No update,but--if he indeed suffered from this condition,he should never consider going out solo as an option.
 
IMO this goes into the 'shit happens' file. You can spend your life devoted to bushcraft and have all the right gear and still die, if 'survivalism' is your recreation you're playing with the line of life and death, period. If you don't consider the risks of this hobby, occupation, whatever you want to call it, then you need to. Every day I step out the door I consider the fact that I may not be coming back, and that doesn't bother me one bit.
 
If I ever go out on a winte wilderness hike again I am bringing a road flare and a good waterproof sack full of a good warm base layer,wool probably.
I recommend anyone read "To Build a Fire" by London, as was mentioned earlier in the thread. It is a chilling tale, indeed.
http://www.jacklondons.net/buildafire.html
 
It is really easy to get get into trouble..... Winter, is the most unforgiving season.
 
Thanks for posting this articles. Makes my remember my rules of -learn, learn, learn, practice, practice, practice, forget ego, forget ego, forget ego-
 
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