Aged steel cuts better??? You are kidding, right?

When somebody does some objective, rigorously controlled tests and publishes the results in a reputable, peer reviewed journal they'll have my attention. Until then it's all hearsay, subjective and anecdotal. Great for a bit of entertainment but that's about all.
 
Ive been working on the outside of my house for the last couple of years. the house was built in 1838, a couple of times I had to cut some steel attached to the house. (old old steel) that steel told my hacksaw, sawzall, chisel, and file to go piss up a rope...finally a had to grind the steel to cut it..I couldnt believe my eyes,,I was amazed. Ive been working with steel in the elevator business my whole adult life,, Ive never seen anything like that....maybe steel does get better with age....like wine cheese and some woman
 
mete said:
It has to be a soft steel to work. A butcher's steel does a similar thing and of course that works on the softer steels not the harder ones.
Technically hammering produces dislocations in the steel which strengthens it. I don't mention dislocations in my comments in the Knife Maker's Section because it is too technical for most. But one of the resons martensite is strong is that it's got lots of dislocations !!
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Ahh, I might understand... essentially in the case of work hardening, the steel is usually not at its hardest to begin with, and the pressure of activity like peening increase the density/hardness? All them molecules and book learnin' things! :D
 
I wonder if Cryo has anything to bear on what is being discussed here??

As in does it "do" something along the lines of what might have "happened" to the aged steel?
 
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I can believe what I said in post #38 could happen in some instances.

However, there are many other variables that could affect a "test".... and if these variables are not controlled and the same for each "test".... the "test" is not valid..... simple as that.

I personally find it hard to believe that simply "aging" a blade would make any noticeable difference. I have a bunch of "aged" blades and have not found this to be true.

I find it hard to believe an "aged blade" would cut 3 to 10 times better.

I also find it hard to believe a blade would cut 3 to 10 times better in the senerio I spoke of in post #38..... unless it was an absolute dog to begin with.
 
I find it hard to believe that the editor of KI would imagine the readers would believe an "aged knife" would do ANYTHING BETTER simply by getting OLDER. Seriously? Just sitting there and getting older it gets BETTER??? :eek: :rolleyes: :D That's the entire premise of the article and the "TESTING" that was performed.

I bet the whole thing is a gimmick to sell more copies of the magazine. I'm not part of the gimmick...just sayin. ;)
 
knifehead said:
i find it hard to believe that the editor of ki would imagine the readers would believe an "aged knife" would do anything better simply by getting older. Seriously? Just sitting there and getting older it gets better??? :eek: :rolleyes: :d that's the entire premise of the article and the "testing" that was performed.

I bet the whole thing is a gimmick to sell more copies of the magazine. I'm not part of the gimmick...just sayin. ;)
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+1 ...... ;)

To be clear..... I never thought you "believed" it knifehead.......... :)
 
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Just to open an old can of worms, I got a chance to read the article today. I too am surprised this got into print. The magazine pushed it as some sort of revolutionary research and discovery. I call shenanigens.
 
I can't make any positive claims but in sharpening some old well used blades I have noticed what I could only imagine as work hardening. I was working on a SK5 FB with ceramic stones when the edge started to chip out from the sharpening, this is something I've only seen with ZDP and 52100 @ Rc62. Even the profile work was tough on that blade, kinda felt like a mid 60's Rc with the way it was grinding. It could have always been that way but I suspect it was the result of years of use and abuse.

Its not really that far fetched, compressed metal does get harder....
 
gajinoz said:
When somebody does some objective, rigorously controlled tests and publishes the results in a reputable, peer reviewed journal they'll have my attention. Until then it's all hearsay, subjective and anecdotal. Great for a bit of entertainment but that's about all.
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While I agree that I would like to see credible data, I actually don't doubt the theory.

Several years ago, when we switched the electronics industry from lead/tin solder to lead-free solder to apease the environmentalist whackos (don't get me started) one of the huge concerns was -- and remains -- the long-term reliability of lead-free solder joints. The pads on a printed ciruit board to which the components are soldered are made of copper. But copper oxidizes quickly when exposed to air. To protect it, we have, in the past coated those pads with the same lead/tin alloy which would be the solder; that worked perfectly for the industry for upwards of seventy years. We could coat the exposed copper with just tin, but tin has a problem: over time, it grows these little "whiskers" which, given today's microscopic component spacing, can cause short circuits. Also, while it's not as bad as bare copper, tin oxidizes. (By the way, the growth of whiskers in tin is well-known though only recently explained, and it should be enough to convince you that metals do change over time.) One solution is to plate nickle onto the copper. But nickel is very difficult to solder to, so you have to then gold on top of the nickle. So, now the pad actually consists of copper with nickle on top of it with gold on top of that. And we're now going to solder to it with a solder which is tin, silver, and a pinch of copper. Wow! We now have copper, nickle, gold, tin, and silver all in one place. Think of all the possible reactions which might occure!

But, it's not so bad because, for example, the nickle won't ever interact with the tin in the solder because there's a layer of gold between them. Or will it? It actually will because atoms of metals can actually move through other metals. So, slowly, over time, atoms of the nickle will move through the gold and interact with the tin and the siver. Slowly, over time, complex intermetalic compounds are created. Intermetalics have may properties, but most of them tend to be brittle. So, over time, the solder joint will get brittle and can then crack and break. Accellerated life testing has already shown this to happen.

My point here is that metal is not static. Inside of a seemingly unchanging piece of metal, there's a lot going on.
 
Ever seen the atoms of metal? would you believe me if I told you your knife was vibrating right now?

:) ;)
 
Atoms of metal? Metal is more like a soup of sub-atomic parts... which is why electricity can flow through metal.
 
gajinoz said:
When somebody does some objective, rigorously controlled tests and publishes the results in a reputable, peer reviewed journal they'll have my attention. Until then it's all hearsay, subjective and anecdotal. Great for a bit of entertainment but that's about all.
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I find this an interesting statement.

"rigorously controlled tests and publishes the results in a reputable, peer reviewed journal" - ain't much "information" meets that criteria :D .

I suspect age will have an affect on any metal. I recall being told that I should get my old guns tested to see if they are safe to fire, even my apparent unfired ones. What changed? Lots of variables, but time is the only consistant change.
 
gajinoz said:
When somebody does some objective, rigorously controlled tests and publishes the results in a reputable, peer reviewed journal they'll have my attention. Until then it's all hearsay, subjective and anecdotal. Great for a bit of entertainment but that's about all.
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The more rigorous the test the less you can interpret from it. It would be like "knife A cuts better than knife B" but only in such and such situation with a precise lab instrument that cuts in a perfect line at a 90 degree angle at x speed with constant applied force.

For me, just give me data. I don't care about rigor because the more you try to control the test conditions the further it gets from real-world cutting. With a lot of collaborating data from several different people under a variety of usage situations, you can still get a pretty clear picture.
 
Gollnick,

If there is sub-atomic parts then there is atomic parts (atoms), atoms are the base for all matter. Sub- atomic refers to the nutrons and electrons around the center of the atom. To break it down further we would need to go into quantum mechanics, last I heard it was just theory though.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Gollnick,

If there is sub-atomic parts then there is atomic parts (atoms), atoms are the base for all matter. Sub- atomic refers to the nutrons and electrons around the center of the atom. To break it down further we would need to go into quantum mechanics, last I heard it was just theory though.
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Well, that is true and false...at the same time. :p
 
Give me a little slack, I've been out of school for a few years now ;)

I'm surprised I remembered that much.
 
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