Agent : Bob Dozier

[Nakano 2]

Cliff Stamp, please satisfy my curiosity- when and by what means did you speak with Bob Dozier where he stated the Agent model was made for "tactical/ utility" use?

N.

 

[brownshoe]

Mr. Razorback, You musn't know too much about Dozier's knives if you think he's only known for a thin hollow ground. He's known for putting out a variety of products, yes with a hollow ground, but not all are thin and many have quite robust tips.

A Buck 110 may be used as a tactical knife, but it was designed as a hunter. Cops in my family carried them in the old days, but not to pry with. They were carried becasue they were the only one handed opening blade available at the time. Also, only a rank amatuer would try to split bone with an inappropriate tool.

Again Mr. Razorback, why are Dozier knives above testing? Is that because they are custom...does that make your knives above testing too? Why not send cliff one of your blades with a paragraph on how it should be used?

I don't see the big deal. The dozier held up reasonably well; of the two problems, one is an easy fix, the other, who knows why the tip fractured. It really isn't that big of a deal. It's the most common break for any knife style.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Mr. Razorback, You musn't know too much about Dozier's knives if you think he's only known for a thin hollow ground. He's known for putting out a variety of products, yes with a hollow ground, but not all are thin and many have quite robust tips.

A Buck 110 may be used as a tactical knife, but it was designed as a hunter. Cops in my family carried them in the old days, but not to pry with. They were carried becasue they were the only one handed opening blade available at the time. Also, only a rank amatuer would try to split bone with an inappropriate tool.

Again Mr. Razorback, why are Dozier knives above testing? Is that because they are custom...does that make your knives above testing too? Why not send cliff one of your blades with a paragraph on how it should be used?

I don't see the big deal. The dozier held up reasonably well; of the two problems, one is an easy fix, the other, who knows why the tip fractured. It really isn't that big of a deal. It's the most common break for any knife style.

I didn't say he was "only" known for thin hollow grinds. I know he makes a variety of different types of knives. The knife in this thread is the one I was referring to. It's my opinion that a Dozier knife needs no testing. That's just how I feel. As far as Cliff testing one of mine, I wouldn't give him a wooden knife to test. I didn't want to say it, again this is my opinion, I think he's a fraud. Where are the pics of this man doing all these tests. When they field test a knife for an article in a magazine, there are pictures showing what was done. Hey if I'm wrong, I apologize, but from what I've been hearing I may not be that far off. I want to see Cliff doing these tests. Anybody can write up a review and post it on a forum. You stated in your other post Mr. Dozier and his staff are not Gods they're human. How did Mr. Stamp become such the "God" of reviews. What are his credentials? Believe me I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Scott

 

[Jeff Clark]

Dalko, A differentially hardened blade is EASIER to bend than a regular blade. If you put the tip of a fully hardened blade in a vice applied 100 pounds you might bend the handle over to 25 degrees and it would mostly go back to straight when you released the handle. If you applied 100 pound to the differentially hardened blade it might bend 50 degrees and be left with a 30 degree permanent bend when you release your pressure. If you got out a piece of pipe to let you apply 150 pounds of force on the handles the differentially hardened blade might bend to 80 degrees and be stuck with a permanent 40 degree kink. The fully hardened blade might break.

PS. You may be able to hammer the bend out of the differentially hardened blade, but you won't be able to fix the break in the fully hardened blade.

The big advantage of a differentially hardened blade is in extreme emergencies where you abuse your knife, but still want it to work. For most of us we don't want our knives to take any permanent bends. We are better off with a knife that is harder at the spine. So either you want a carbon steel knife with about a 54 or 56 RC blade (a bit less tough and a bit less edge holding, but resists yielding to a high level). Or you want a lighter differential hardening. Say an edge that is 60 RC and a spine that is 54. The classic Randall fighting knives take the first approach. The blades are more in the 52-54 RC hardness range. They hold an edge OK and allow a fair bit of prying without taking a permanent bend. I don't know what hardness profile various custom makers use. I would ask if I could get something more like a 60/54 combination.

 

[brownshoe]

Mr. Razorback, cliff is not my god, we've had some heated discussions in the past; and I'll admit I was not pleasant in my disagreement. I will say that cliff has changed his approach over the years. You question his legitimacy because he doesn't have 4 arms, two of which used in knife testing and the other two to photograph. Not very valid grounds for calling a man a fraud. More than a few people in the knife industry have used him to test knives. The results were not always favorable. However, these proffessionals did not believe that he "dry-labbed" his tests. Cliff may not be right all of the time, but he certainly is right some of the time. Even a broken watch is correct two times a day.

You can give no reason other than your "feelings" for why Cliff shouldn't be allowed to test a Dozier. Not very logical. You don't want him testing your knives, because you don't believe he really does the tests. Why not give make two identical blades, give one to cliff and see what his test results are. Then, if you feel your knife did not perform as expected, do the tests yourself and see if you get the same results. That'd be a method to offer objective evidence to proof cliff didn't actually do any testing at all.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Brownshoe, I going to tell right now I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. It's not worth my time. As far as someone field testing my knives, I have my customers do that for me. I get real world use feedback and that's what I would rather have. I don't send knives to people I don't know. I got screwed right here on BF when I asked for a field tester last year. They were going to field test the knife and post a review and for that they got to keep the knife. Well guess what, NO review was done and as far as I'm concerned they stole the knife because they didn't hold up to their end of the agreement. If someone wants to field test one of my knives, pay me my asking price, do the test, send the knife back and I'll send their money back. I put alot of my time and heart into making knives and I'm not going to just hand them over for someone to play with. If Cliff is legit I'm happy for him but when I see other people post reviews they don't the same response as he does. All I'm asking is what makes him such the authority?
Scott

 

[KnifeAddictAK]

Why not give make two identical blades, give one to cliff and see what his test results are. Then, if you feel your knife did not perform as expected, do the tests yourself and see if you get the same results. That'd be a method to offer objective evidence to proof cliff didn't actually do any testing at all.

Why would anyone break want to break a second knife in the same manner as the first one? I would think it would be obvious that it wouldn't stand up to it any different than the first time you did it. Kinda lick peeing on an electrical fence. "Well chuck, my doo dad burn on the first round. Let's say we do that again". Sounds stupid, huh? I agree. So why destroy a perfectly good knife made for cutting? My thought is, a knife is designed to cut. Not to pry, scrape, chisel, etc... So cut stuff

 

[STR]

Go ahead and buy two Dozier knives. But let me save you the time of testing them. The tips will snap if you pry with that D2 blade. So there you have it, and in a gesture of thanks you can just send me the knife I saved. Much appreciated.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Go ahead and buy two Dozier knives. But let me save you the time of testing them. The tips will snap if you pry with that D2 blade. So there and in a gesture of thanks you can juse send me the knife I saved. Much appreciated.

Thank you STR. Knives cut, use a maul to bust a cider block and use a crow bar to pry open a door or window. Does the knife cut well or not, what else do you need to now. Oh, gotta answer the door I think my knife field tester is here.
Scott

 

[brownshoe]

Knives cut, true Mr. Razorback. Knives are also used in carving. A spoon carver I know uses an old case sodbuster to make $400 hand made spoons. I can't believe you would think wood carving is abuse of a tactical knife.

Cliff, take Mr. Razorback up on his offer. Buy one of his blades, test it and then send it back. He'll refund the money to you. Given the shape of his blades, you should be able to put it through some real abuse.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Knives cut, true Mr. Razorback. Knives are also used in carving. A spoon carver I know uses an old case sodbuster to make $400 hand made spoons. I can't believe you would think wood carving is abuse of a tactical knife.

Cliff, take Mr. Razorback up on his offer. Buy one of his blades, test it and then send it back. He'll refund the money to you. Given the shape of his blades, you should be able to put it through some real abuse.

Look at what you just said, a Case sod buster. What steel is that, carbon, that's alot less brittle then D2. Study up on your steels dude. Most carbons are softer then the new supersteels. A professional wood carver would know alot more about carving with a knife then the average Joe.
Scott

 

[STR]

Anyone that carves knows that there are very few times that flicking or chippng is necessary or required if you do it right. Most of the time when a piece is flicked by an experienced carver it is unintentional or the piece being flicked is barely hanging on by much wood left. Most of us know that flicking and prying with a thin blade can and will often times damage the tip by bending it or breaking it off altogether.

As with anything there is a right and a wrong way to do it. I've carved many neat little pieces with a Swiss Army Knife in the past and managed to get it done. In all my life I've only broken one tip off of a carving knife and that was with a Queen D2 knife I bought about three months ago. Go figure.

These days I make most of my walking stick faces with this pocket knife I made for myself that is pictured here with a walnut canoe I carved for my nephew at his request this morning. This knife is my own design and I call it my Whittlejack folder. I've used it for many carving projects because of the Wharncliff blade. This blade is 3/32" thick. The tip is very thin and sharp. I venture to say it is much thinner than the blade Cliff used in his test.

This walnut canoe was shaped and cut out with the knife right beside it. No spoons or special tools and no broken tip because no flicking was necessary to do this. All I did was make three deep straight line cuts repeatedly to the depths I wanted from one end to the other of the roughed out shape and then slice to the depth of the first cut and take out a wedge. Progressively each wedge gets smaller but you keep going until you are down to one little strip the length of the project. Then I continue to slice at an angle until it was cut out to the depth I wanted it. What little uneveness was left in the dug out after it was carved out was relatively easy to get rid of when I simply sanded it with some 100 grit sand paper. Not rocket science guys.

 

[lagarto]

Not to change the subject, but STR, that's a sweet little boat. I've wanted to make a full size one for years, but so far haven't had the time. Also, I'm just getting into whittling/carving myself. Could you possibly post a small tutorial on how to carve one of those, maybe over in community or someplace? Thanks much.

Lagarto

 

[Gossman Knives]

STR, that's a great looking folder, nice job. You should post some of your other works too. Nothing like some nice wood carvings.
Scott

 

[KnifeAddictAK]

Pffffffffff... That dinky thing wouldn't hold water




Just kidding. That's cool A small tutorial would be nice for a lot of guys

 

[STR]

Thanks for the feedback. My nephew got a kick out of his canoe because it actually floats. Imagine that.

My wife tells me that I'm not a very good teacher. My skills are medeocre at best compared to some of the guys I've met. I just carve some because it keeps me entertained.

Without a video camera an online tutorial is pretty hard to convey without lengthy steps and picture taking. I would suggest for anyone that wants to learn to watch someone that does it though. Notice the patience and control. Every fifteen minutes or so they strop their knife and then get after it again.

I'd also recommend that you keep your carving simple. Most of the stuff I do is to entertain my young nephews so I keep it very simple and encourage them to join in. Here you can see some carvings I did with their input. As you can also tell my skills are not worthy of high praise. But even as weak as my carvings are I know enough to get by.

When my nephews wanted an alien I gave them an alien to the best of my humble ability. They wanted a boot intead of the typical shoe so I gave them a boot. This is simple stuff really. Cut out the rough shape with a band saw or scroll saw or a Swiss army saw even and then embellish it with details if you can't get the blade to do what you are asking of it at first.

The main thing with carving is mostly use common sense. Don't draw the knife toward you, wear safety glasses and don't flick or pry with the blade. Safety is a must. Don't cut with a lot of force with your full forearm. Use your hands and let your pinky or the ring and pinky finger act as a fulcrum on the piece you are working. Cut with control in 'baby steps'. And perhaps most importantly know how to sharpen your knife. A sharper knife is safer. Dull knives require way more force than needed to make a cut and with lots of force comes lots of accidents and bad cuts. Hope that helps. Now lets get back on topic.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Knives cut, true Mr. Razorback. Knives are also used in carving. A spoon carver I know uses an old case sodbuster to make $400 hand made spoons. I can't believe you would think wood carving is abuse of a tactical knife.

Cliff, take Mr. Razorback up on his offer. Buy one of his blades, test it and then send it back. He'll refund the money to you. Given the shape of his blades, you should be able to put it through some real abuse.

Get real, do you think after all this I would let him test one of my knives? He doesn't have enough money to buy one. I've got real users lined up.
Scott

 

[knifetester]

STR,
On that folder is that a forged blade by DC in 15n20?

 

[STR]

STR, On that folder is that a forged blade by DC in 15n20?

I wish. No that is a recycled blade from a Russel Green River knife my wife mangled in the kitchen disposal. I always liked that knife and I had put the handle on it myself. So I simply cut off the handle and used the back part of the tang for the spacer bar and blade stop and reshaped the blade by getting rid of all the places my wife left her mark and there you have it. A back yard mechanic special. Lock and liner are both 410 stainless heat treated for me by Paul Bos.

By the way. I know who you are referring to. DC never made any blades for me. We tried to get something going but it didn't pan out. Others I have made have been done with hand made 5160 blades in them but this one is not. I was not too sure how this steel would work out but it has been surprisingly good.

It used to look like this in it's past life with a nice ebony handle on it for kitchen duty. Now it is one of my fave carry knives. Great steel these Russell knives are. Not sure what it is but whatever it is it keeps an edge and sharpens up easy.

 

[knifetester]

Thanks for the details.

That is an interesting design, I can not tell from the phots, is it a slip joint or is there a lock?

Would you consider making those knives out of M2 power hacksaw blades?

Great steel these Russell knives are. Not sure what it is but whatever it is it keeps an edge and sharpens up easy.

I believed it varied with production lots, especially over time. 1095 was most often used, but 1084 and 1075 were also used IIRC.