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Airguns for survival use

No doubt air guns can be very effective, but for an effective airgun i think you will spend as much or more than you could on a good .22. Some airguns are as loud as a .22.

For those reasons my vote would be for a .22 because you can control the noise/velocity via the ammo. You have a bit more versatility IMO.

Good luck with your choice. No matter how you decide, please come back and do a little 'write-up' on you thoughts involving your decision and the rifle you chose.
 
PrimitiveMan said:
I have killed almost 20 squirrels and 7 rabbits this spring with a Daisy springer .177 shooting only 650 fps. Keep in mind, this is only casual shooting, I am not trying to survive and this gun is anemic by comparison to the 1,000 fps airguns.

I can carry 1,000 rounds in my back pocket. By weight, ONE box of shotgun shells equals THOUSANDS of rounds of pellets. One box of 50 .22 LR equals over 500 pellets.

My shots have been from 15 yards, to OVER 40 yards

I have lost only 2 animals to poor shots TOTAL.

I Firearm hunt extensively, waterfowl, rabbit, deer etc. but I have decided that if it came down to it, a Benjamin pumper in .22 with a decent scope and a spare set of seals would be the ultimate survival gun. You could even make your own ammo in a pinch. It would last for decades. You would never need to contact society. Nobody would hear you. you would leave no casings behind.

Modern airguns are very capable of taking game including Turkey, rabbits, squirrels, any game bird and pests such as coyote and groundhogs out to almost 100 yards. With a .22 airgun pushing over 750 fps, I would even kill deer if it came down to it, although I do not consider it ethical and would only do so for survival.

Now don't get me wrong, you are not going to kill a charging bear with it, but for killing game to eat, it is beyond compare. Forget CO2 and PCP, go for a springer or a pumper and stay "self contained".

I have plenty of guns in 12 gauge, .270, .22, .45 etc. but if you can find a gun that can do all of the above better, go buy it, because no powder burner is going to compare.
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I'm sorry 'primitiveman' but you have made some extremely bold and unbelievable claims in your post and I must ask you to please provide some evidence of your claims.

How exactly can an airgun do ANYTHING better than a "12G, .270 .22, .45..."

Please explain.

Also please show me the airgun that can kill "Turkey, rabbits, squirrels, any game bird and pests such as coyote and groundhogs out to almost 100 yards".

I am a lifelong hunter and would be very interested in such a rifle if it exists. I've extensive experience with airguns, rimfire, and centerfire guns. I can't imagine an airgun that would kill game at 100 yards. :confused:

Sorry to call you out primitiveman... but the internet is already full of poor information and BS. You post is both and it is a disservice to those who seek knowledge from folks on this forum.

Airguns are lots of fun and can be very effective given their inherent limitations.. so i would ask you to please.... keep it real. ;) :)
 
For hunting airguns, up to .50 cal, including the ammo, go to www.PyramidAir.com. For consistent small game harvesting, a Benjie 392 with a peep site is available at Pyramid and a bunch of other sites, like AirgunsofArizona.com. You can also mod a Crosman 1377 into a .22 small game carbine, the parts are available at Crosman.com or buy one from Mac1 Airguns or Mountainairguns.com.

I don't know anything about gunsmithing. I think that a powder burner may be easier to repair and have less moving parts than an airgun, especially a single shot rifle. Having said that, I have a Crosman 1377 with a shoulder stock and a scope. It is lightweight, I can buy 500 rounds for under 5.00 and I can practice in my basement with no problems. I have put 10,000 rounds through it easily. All that it required is some oiling every 250 rounds. Because it is convenient and cheap to shoot, I shoot it a lot and I am very accurate, especially with a fold up bipod that I learned to make at VarmintAl.com.

When I am woodswalking, I sometimes play a mental game of killing animals in a survival situation. I agree that you would do better on a daily basis with a modern adult airgun for bunnies, squirrels and birds. For deer, you need a powder burner.
 
For hunting airguns, up to .50 cal, including the ammo, go to www.PyramidAir.com. For consistent small game harvesting, a Benjie 392 with a peep site is available at Pyramid and a bunch of other sites, like AirgunsofArizona.com. You can also mod a Crosman 1377 into a .22 small game carbine, the parts are available at Crosman.com or buy one from Mac1 Airguns or Mountainairguns.com.

I don't know anything about gunsmithing. I think that a powder burner may be easier to repair and have less moving parts than an airgun, especially a single shot rifle. Having said that, I have a Crosman 1377 with a shoulder stock and a scope. It is lightweight, I can buy 500 rounds for under 5.00 and I can practice in my basement with no problems. I have put 10,000 rounds through it easily. All that it required is some oiling every 250 rounds. Because it is convenient and cheap to shoot, I shoot it a lot and I am very accurate, especially with a fold up bipod that I learned to make at VarmintAl.com.

When I am woodswalking, I sometimes play a mental game of killing animals in a survival situation. I agree that you would do better on a daily basis with a modern adult airgun for bunnies, squirrels and birds. For deer, you need a powder burner.
 
there are a few well crafted and exceptionally powerful pellet guns out there.
I don't know about 100 yards, but I can take out squirrels and rabbits from about 33 yards away with ease.
 
MBTull said:
Sorry about the double post

KDStrick - I don't know about 100 yds, but this puppy is accurate to 50 yds.

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/career-dragon-slayer-50-caliber-air-rifle.shtml

As is this

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/benjamin-disco-air-rifle-combo.shtml
Click to expand...

Thanks. Very cool stuff! I'd love to have one of those, but for $619 I could by and Anshultz .22 that will drive nails at 75 yards... LOL! Still... it is cool and as ammo prices continue to rise due to hope and change maybe the airgun technology will become more affordable in time.
 
Hey Bigdumplings,

I like PCP's (Pre Charged Pneumatics), although being stuck in England I'm limited to much lower power levels without a firearms certificate. You can get more powerful versions on your side of the pond.

PCP's have an air cylinder that is filled either from a diving tank or a separate stirrup pump (hard work but better for long term survival for obvious reasons). PCP's also have no discernible recoil, unlike spring guns.

I've a thread about one I got recently here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600608

There has been a couple of threads recently about hunting with an airgun I think.

Even though low powered by other countries' standards, mine is quite capable of taking rabbits, squirrels etc at 30ish yards, in almost complete silence. Hitting the quarry makes more noise than firing the thing. I get 40-50 shots from a tank filling and the rifle takes a 10-shot magazine. Unless you get one much more powerful, there isn't much difference in what you can shoot or how far you can reliably hunt with one.

If I could, I would also have 'real' firearms of course, but I would still have a good air rifle or two for quietly putting meat in the pot. Depending on the type of situation and the game in your region, the air rifle might see far more use and be perfectly adequate. And much cheaper to run!
 
now that we have a good airgun thread how about some of your airgun pics? ill post my new ruger on friday and i can post my crosman tomorrow
 
Here you go then:

Air Arms S410 Carbine in 0.22" cal.

410001.jpg

410002.jpg
 
Also got me a Crossman Ratcatcher

.22 again, about 11ft-lbs, takes a little CO2 bulb, so not so good for long term survival use. Single shot bolt action, gets about 30 shots from a CO2 bulb. Not as accurate as the S410, but fine for closer stuff, like taking rats from around barns or squirrels from trees!

Nice short and light-weight rifle makes it really easy to use. I want to replace the scope with a red dot sight though, when I have the cash. Zero magnification for short-range point-and-shoot.

ratcatcher1.jpg
 
KDSTRICK,

The last rabbit I killed was with a Daisy 120 break barrel at 40 yards. That gun WHEN NEW was rated at 650 fps muzzle velocity.

So I am shooting 10 grain pellets at about 625 FPS. At 40 yards that equals 490 fps and 5.4 ft lbs of energy.

At 1000 fps, a 20 yard ft lbs energy number would be over 18.

Several people have been killed with high power airguns recently. The last one was a woman in NJ accidently shot in the back. A fluke? Maybe. But Gamo had a video of a wild boar being taken with an airgun on their website, so the potential is "REAL"

So, will an airgun kill coyotes all day at over 100 yards? NO

Will it kill game at distance? YES

I don't know how "REAL" you want it but if anyone thinks I am not giving truthful information, head over to "the tube" and look up airgun hunting. It is full of videos taking game at various distances.
 
Bigdumplings said:
3. the legalities with owning an air rifle are much more relaxed then an actual boomstick
What are your thoughts
Click to expand...

This is very State dependant, In NJ and parts of NY for example an airgun is a firearm under the Law

As for survival use it seems to me that if you have more than one gun an airgun would be a good addition, for quiet close game hunting which is probably what you are going to be doing primarily.

Lewis and Cark thought enough of airguns to take one on their famous expedition.
 
Josh K said:
I can't see it being that accurate past 10-15 yards. I wouldn't say that they're cheaply made, but I don't believe they are made to the same standards as true firearms.

However, they are light, quiet, and ammo is cheap and abundant.
Click to expand...
Ive got an older .20 Sheridan Blue Streak with Phillips peep sights that will shoot quarter size groups at 35 yards all day long and have killed dozens of squirrels, rabbits and the occasional grouse with. In a survival situation I would probably try a head/neck shot on a turkey. Very quiet. With a good knowledge of wild edibles,some survival basics and this rifle i would feel confident in feeding me and mine for a while in a SHTF situation requiring stealth.--KV
 
Plenty of folks in the UK hunt rabbits with rifles < 12ft-lbs power. It's common. The general feeling is not to take a shot that won't kill the quarry pretty much immediately, which relies on both accuracy and terminal power. 30-40 yards is quite easy to achieve even with our 'limited' rifles.
 
I'm gonna vouch for primitive man..not because I know anymore about airguns than I stated in my previous post (that to me they ar proven performers on small game) but because In the time he has been here, he has conststantly been a voice of pragmatic reason and wisdom, and is not given to fantastical claims... he's a righteous dude, and has a legitimate and experienced skillset. If he says he can make an airgun dance the tango I'll believe him.. I've seen some older woodsman do thngs I thought where impossible. JM 2cents sorry for interjecting.. Best regards to everyone.
 
An air gun is very capable of taking small game. The gun club I'm a member of has an airgun league, and in addition to the indoor matches we have, there is also hunting with air guns.

My Fienwerkebau 124 has taken enough rabbits, squirrels, pideons, to make a very nice stew of either. If the shooter does his part, one shot will drop most any small game.

Since I'm getting into old fart age, and not up to playing mountain man if TSHTF, I've gotten alot more interested in urban/suburban survival the past few years. I've found that while a .22 is a better game gun, with longer range, you may not be wanting to have "others" hear your shots. While a high power air rifle dies have a bit of a discharge noise, it's not going to carry very far like a firearm, even a .22. I think an air rifle is a very useful tool for urban/survival. A suburban rabbit tastes as good over charcoal as a country rabbit. I've plinked off dinner with none of my nieghbors being the wiser.
 
Thanks for the props RR.

I must add, I only take head shots with airguns, so all of my experience is based on this. If I were going to shoot a turkey, or a larger animal if needed, I would never attempt a body shot with an airgun.

You aren't going to take Elk at 500 yards with one (at least not one curently available off the shelf) and they do have their limitations, but as a hunting weapon, out to 50 yards and pushing to 60 or 70 on small game they are dveastating. In a survival situation where ethics are less of a question, you can get out even a bit further.

The limitations are:

A diabolo pellet (houglass shape) becomes unstable as it approaches the speed of sound (about 1,000 fps) so the newer guns that claim they shoot over 1,200 fps (some up to 1,600) are doing so with the new non-lead ammo and are less accurate because of it. Also, once you break the sound barrier, they create a sonic boom and just as loud as a rifle.

Pellets weigh less than bullets due to the hollow base design, therefore they sacrifice SOME ft lbs of energy.

The pumpers are a bit more complex than a standard .22 rifle, springers are pretty simple, but I have heard of (but never actually experienced) broken springs.

Advantages over a .22 LR are they are (usually) Quieter at similar killing power, can carry a thousand rounds of ammo with no problem.

Disadvantages over a .22 LR slightly less powerful, not effective once you get past 100 yards or so, pretty much a single shot affair.

So...depending on my situation, if I were going to be stuck for a while with a bunch of small game around in a wooded setting, I would take the air rifle in .22. If I were going to be stuck overnight or up to a week or so or needed to defend myself, I would take a 12gauge pump and 50 rounds of various ammo. If I were not trying to survive but wanted to take occaisional game and woods bum, I would probably grab the .22 LR.

Keep in mind, all of this does not take into account the legalities as were pointed out by another poster.

You can buy a nice, scoped airgun that shoots 800-1,000 fps in .177 or .22 for under $200, under $150 in some cases.

But all that is just opinion.
 
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