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Whitie, +1 very well said:thumbup:
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Al Mars Real or Counterfit?
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oldalmar
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Everyone Please L@@K this link first http://photos.yahoo.co.jp/ph/almar_.../almar_knives/lst?&.dir=/757b&.src=ph&.view=t
These Photoes are from 90s,80s Japanses knife catarog Book.
If thses knife are Counterfits knives, All Japanses collecter will get angry!
infobound1 up the Photoes SOF,Grunt II, I are sold in Japanses market in 90s. Why Boxs mark are different. I think the Japanses knife shop change the box to looks like new. collecter want to buy beautiful box.
So In Japan now Al Mar mark has two. Old 國馬森　New馬 Why? I do not know. But When I gat Repair from SEKI-JAPAN My knife,They change Blade and mark to 馬. It was R30 Blade not 440C. SEKI-JAPAN has still some old parts.
SEKI-JAPAN still some al mar knives Case and Sheath.Some sheath are English "AL MAR"
I guuss this type sheath are Repair parts.
Give me e-mail infobound1. I will ship to Japanses catarog book to you!
These Photoes are from 90s,80s Japanses knife catarog Book.
If thses knife are Counterfits knives, All Japanses collecter will get angry!
infobound1 up the Photoes SOF,Grunt II, I are sold in Japanses market in 90s. Why Boxs mark are different. I think the Japanses knife shop change the box to looks like new. collecter want to buy beautiful box.
So In Japan now Al Mar mark has two. Old 國馬森　New馬 Why? I do not know. But When I gat Repair from SEKI-JAPAN My knife,They change Blade and mark to 馬. It was R30 Blade not 440C. SEKI-JAPAN has still some old parts.
SEKI-JAPAN still some al mar knives Case and Sheath.Some sheath are English "AL MAR"
I guuss this type sheath are Repair parts.
Give me e-mail infobound1. I will ship to Japanses catarog book to you!
Bill Siegle
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I have seen the same thing with some old Pacific Cutlery knives. New production of old blade styles. Even using the same markings. Makes it dang near impossible to know for sure what's what.
oldalmar
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Photo from Japanses knife magazin.I do believe Desert storm GRUNTII is REAL.
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This is total bullshit. Any "new" knife coming from Seki is what Gary Fadden calls a "counterfeit", simply because Al Mar did not order the knives. I.e., the good folks in Seki help themselves to original tools and continue making/selling illegal knives. Seki is famous for this sort of thing.
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Old Al after thinking about this for a couple days and seeing the way you are trying to go about this, I have come to the assumption thay you may have been taken by these Al Mars as have myself and countless other collectors all over. I have seen Knowledgeable dealers and collectors turning these over without a clue as to the truth! I have no animosity towards you personally, I am only trying to keep people from spending money on unauthorized knives! I guess it would be easier to get taken in by these knives in japan as that is where they come from. And Yes I would love a japanese Al Mar Catalog, would be a nice addition to my A/M info and give some insight into these knives in your country. I will gadly pay you for the catalog and cost of shipping it here, I will send you a PM.
oldalmar
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I will send to you knife Book and some copy form Japanese books FREE!.L@@k the first You will know that who is liar. I talk to last night who was working SEKI-JAPAN 60s.70s.80s.90s. There are many ugly story between New Al mar COE and SEKI-JAPAN in mid 90s. When Al is working with SEKI-JAPAN everything fine and they truust each ather have a good time.
Al helped SEKI-JAPA guys how to make folding knives in 70s. All SEKI-JAPAN Guys Really LOVE Al and his help. They called Al Mar " MAR-San" .They were in shock when al mar died. They still have a loyalty to AL MAR. Why SEKI-JAPAN does not take an action against new COE? Al Mar's Wife still own part of Al mar company. They just quit making ALL Al mar knives to New al mar COE. ugly ugly story between New COE and SEKI-JAPAN.
maybe I should not tell this story.
Give me e-mail infobound1 I have to check your address.
Al helped SEKI-JAPA guys how to make folding knives in 70s. All SEKI-JAPAN Guys Really LOVE Al and his help. They called Al Mar " MAR-San" .They were in shock when al mar died. They still have a loyalty to AL MAR. Why SEKI-JAPAN does not take an action against new COE? Al Mar's Wife still own part of Al mar company. They just quit making ALL Al mar knives to New al mar COE. ugly ugly story between New COE and SEKI-JAPAN.
maybe I should not tell this story.
Give me e-mail infobound1 I have to check your address.
I know that with the SERE folders, I bough one from a German knife e-tailer that an email response from AMK confirmed was fake. Heard the same story before; same tooling, really the same quality (the fake was actually better than the real one I had) but not authorized.
An ivory micarta handled Eagle and a stag handled Falcon, neither of which has been available in the US for some time(like over 10 years) at the Seki Knife Museum store in Seki Japan last November.
The prices were very comparable to wholesale on new knives when they were available in the early 1990's....what I am NOT sure of is if they are new old stock, or current production.
Truth be told, these had enough patina on the brass, and discoloration of the IM to be new old stock, so this thread has me scratching my head. I'll ask Gary next time I see him.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
The prices were very comparable to wholesale on new knives when they were available in the early 1990's....what I am NOT sure of is if they are new old stock, or current production.
Truth be told, these had enough patina on the brass, and discoloration of the IM to be new old stock, so this thread has me scratching my head. I'll ask Gary next time I see him.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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Old AL, I am hoping that you do not know the differance between Al Mar Knives authorized and Ordered for production By Al Mar USA and ones produced in seki without there authorization, I have not had the chance for outside pictures, due to medical appoinments and rain, I just spent over an hour on the phone with Gary Fadden this afternoon, discussing various counterfit blades and the unauthorized manufacture of models based on vintage Blades, Al Mar USAs stock of the old blades was gone by 1997, There have never been any so called special market knives authorized By Al, His Family or the new owner Gary. The knives that are not authorized by Al Mars Knives are counterfit any way you want to slice it. Unfortunately alot of people have bought these peices unknowingly. I am going to post some Bad pictures to show you the differances, these are what i can manage with bad weather and my photo tent packed away! Identifying these blades is fairly easy if you have a good knowledge of their models and special editions. If you are not that familiar it is easy to buy incorrect knives. The sere you posted today is not a correct knife look at the placements of the chops and logos any model sere from the beginning always had the chop and logo above the grind like the ones in my pictures. Anyone wishing to confirm any of this information is welcome to Call Al Mar Knives At 503-670-9080 its been my experiance more often than not that Gary answers the phone himself. As my poor pictures show on models from the begining to current day. Out of all my Seres this placement is standard, it is one of the first Tells that was taught to me by the old collectors. And a twenty year old knife typically shows some sign of being vintage not just made new. The first and fourth knives are early production gold chops relatively rare and do not show up very well.
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Another tell on counterfits are the sheaths, Al Mar Sheaths typically have a model number stamped on the back of all leather sheaths, sheaths that vary from the originals unless stated as differant are visual giveaways. Leather sheaths with the word COMBAT stamped on them with the al mar chop will not have a model number on the Back, AL Mar Never sold a sheath with the word combat on it! See above post with A/M dessret storm commerative photo in the first post in this thread, for some reason i cannot use my pictures in more than 1 post at a time. The vagabond shown is a Pre-production #199/200 with a very early japan marking.
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oldalmar
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Why sheaths are differant? I am 100% know " SEKI-JAPAN some knives ship only knives" So Al Mar had to make sheath in the USA. They use Eagle and TX ??.
Your al mar sheath looks like SOG sheath. My Point is Al Mar knives in 80s and 90s which sale in the Japanes market are little defferant. Like SERE and SOF has De Oppresso Libre side.
Airborne was selling 1990 in Japan. Al Mar still live. Anyway I sent Japanses Book and Copy today to CT. You will understand some Japanses market. In Japan 80s and ealy 90s were little differant type al mar we can buy it.
My Point is Al mar dose not know it?? I do not think so. Al Mar came to SEKI knife show and He write his autograph on Japanses type Al Mar sheaths to Japanses Collector!!! If those are counterfits knives, Do you think Al Mar give to Japanses collector an autograph?
whatever who say In 70s,80s and eary 90s which sold al mar knives in Japan, those are Real Al Mar knives.
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Hi!!
Welcome To The Forum.
And you might have trouble getting a response about that catalog,
That users last activity was 2 years ago, this thread is 3 years old.
I was recently looking for Al Mar Grunt IIs on Ebay, and the situation is rather scary, as the counterfeits, in the case of the Desert Storm Grunt II, is obviously of a slightly lower quality of surface finish than one would expect from Al MAr, or compared to what is visible in other Grunt II photos.
This is one I was looking at for myself on Ebay, and the "Japan" logo is poorly stamped on one side, but otherwise I am still on the fence about it... It certainly does look suspiciously "new" for a 20-30 year old knife (note how even the guard snap loop has no crease at all near the release snap: In 20+ years it has never been unsnapped!?)...
This other one is a clear counterfeit, and look at the up-close finish quality, not quite the outstanding stuff we expect from a genuine Al Mar...:
The cheesy "combat" print on the sheath is definitely not in the understated Al Mar style:
Anyway, to me there is a difference with the "accurate" fakes, in that the finish quality of Al Mars did vary (early numbered and late production Shadow IVs for instance), but was never as ordinary as in the second picture above...
Any more clear opinions out there since this thread started? I've always found it strange how many of the nice big Al Mars were discontinued... The situation with the counterfeits, and the supposed disagreement between SEKI-JAPAN and the new Al Mar owners, certainly makes for a murky situation... I think the safest way now is to assume any completely pristine "old" knife is suspicious... I've rarely seen that such a strange situation remains unresolved without a detailed guide somewhere as to the differences: The obvious fake Grunt II is clearly of a lower finish quality, yet is also completely accurate and probably made from the same tooling... It seems the sheath and boxes are the only real help here... Given that the fakes are going for $400, that is not pocket change to plunk down on a fake... I contacted Ebay about the "Combat" -sheath "Desert Storm" Grunt II, and there was no response...
Gaston
This is one I was looking at for myself on Ebay, and the "Japan" logo is poorly stamped on one side, but otherwise I am still on the fence about it... It certainly does look suspiciously "new" for a 20-30 year old knife (note how even the guard snap loop has no crease at all near the release snap: In 20+ years it has never been unsnapped!?)...
This other one is a clear counterfeit, and look at the up-close finish quality, not quite the outstanding stuff we expect from a genuine Al Mar...:
The cheesy "combat" print on the sheath is definitely not in the understated Al Mar style:
Anyway, to me there is a difference with the "accurate" fakes, in that the finish quality of Al Mars did vary (early numbered and late production Shadow IVs for instance), but was never as ordinary as in the second picture above...
Any more clear opinions out there since this thread started? I've always found it strange how many of the nice big Al Mars were discontinued... The situation with the counterfeits, and the supposed disagreement between SEKI-JAPAN and the new Al Mar owners, certainly makes for a murky situation... I think the safest way now is to assume any completely pristine "old" knife is suspicious... I've rarely seen that such a strange situation remains unresolved without a detailed guide somewhere as to the differences: The obvious fake Grunt II is clearly of a lower finish quality, yet is also completely accurate and probably made from the same tooling... It seems the sheath and boxes are the only real help here... Given that the fakes are going for $400, that is not pocket change to plunk down on a fake... I contacted Ebay about the "Combat" -sheath "Desert Storm" Grunt II, and there was no response...
Gaston
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