AliExpress??

[Alpha Knife Supply]

The test report in the video did not show the carbon content and the silicon is high. How do you know it is M390?

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

Besides a youtube video, do you have any proof? And we can do without the insults. Thanks!

Edit: Good god, that was a chore watching that. The guys voice gives nick a run for his money. Looks like M390 with questionable HT.

The problem still remains that you are buying a knife from a known clone making company and from a dealer that sells counterfeits.

Yeah, his voice isn't exactly soothing, but I like his videos because he actually tests and disassembles stuff, which a lot of YouTube reviewers don't/won't. I'm just glad he doesn't show his face too often (the proverbial "face for radio").

59.2 HRC is on the low end of normal for M390, but Spyderco's M390 has tested at the same hardness, so I wouldn't get too worried about it. For context, Microtech M390 has tested below 58 HRC, which is definitely outside the norm.

While I understand the moral sentiment against otherwise legal clones, when it involves a company with a record of openly infringing IP of competitors (e.g., Microtech), I have a hard time feeling sympathetic. I also think there's value for the industry as a whole to encourage competent companies to shift from making clones to making their own designs.

The test report in the video did not show the carbon content and the silicon is high. How do you know it is M390?

I'm going to go with the determination of the company doing the PMI; they say it was M390 and I have no reason to doubt them. As far as individual elements, handheld XRF can't detect elements lighter than magnesium (including carbon and nitrogen). The silicon level in the test sample is closer to M390's normal standard (0.7) than the silicon level of CPM20CV, which is considered to be a copy of M390, so I'm not sure it's significant. Maybe it's because the M390 patent specs silicon at 1% max. I'm no metallurgist, so I'll defer to the experts doing the PMI.

 

[Silent H]

They’ve been confirmed to use M390, not that it really matters to people who don’t bother to research anything.

Wasn't this YouTube channel at the center of the whole LionSteel M390 Blow up last year? He doesn't seem like much of an expert on M390, but he sure seems to like Ganzo based on his other videos.

 

[craytab]

Wasn't this YouTube channel at the center of the whole LionSteel M390 Blow up last year? He doesn't seem like much of an expert on M390, but he sure seems to like Ganzo based on his other videos.

This was that guy? Ugh...

 

[Silent H]

This was that guy? Ugh...

Yup, it was, at least according to this thread: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/is-lionsteel’s-m390-still-considered-soft.1751580/

To answer the question in the topic: It shouldn't. The whole "Lionsteel's M390 is too soft" debate started with a youtube video from Luvthemknives. LTK stated that a Collector's knives sheep foot made by Lionsteel only had a 51 HRC hardness despite being advertised as 58-60 HRC. In the end it turned out that it was indeed 59.1 HRC and LTK deleted his video. In his follow up video (also deleted) LTK admitted that not a single knife was out of specification.

I recommend reading the original thread here on blade forums and Collectorknives' comment under this Nick Shabazz video:


My personal opinion: The whole thing really went out of proportion and some people that do not like Lionsteel for winning too many blade awards saw it as an opportunity to post bs.

To sum things up: Lionsteel knives usually have the hardness that is advertised. Is 58-60 HRC too soft? That is open to debate. Several European knife companies regard it as the optimal range for an edc or outdoor knife. However, there are also people like their M390 hardened to 62 HRC - that's what Spyderco did with some Para 2 exclusives (AFAIK the Para 3 M390 exclusive was also tested at 59 HRC though).
I have owned at least 30 knives with M390 blades and I think Lionsteel usually does a pretty good job hardening the blade to the sweet spot where it keeps a good edge while not becoming brittle or even prone to clipping.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

And that makes them OK how exactly?

They. Make. Clones.

If they have a utility or design patent, then they can sue. If not. they need to get a utility or design patent. Otherwise, it's fair game for anyone. That is how our society works.

 

[Danke42]

Wasn't this YouTube channel at the center of the whole LionSteel M390 Blow up last year? He doesn't seem like much of an expert on M390, but he sure seems to like Ganzo based on his other videos.

A leopard will never change their spots and a thief or liar will never reform no mater how many times caught in a falsehood.

 

[Lance Leon]

If they have a utility or design patent, then they can sue. If not. they need to get a utility or design patent. Otherwise, it's fair game for anyone. That is how our society works.

It doesn't need to be illegal to be frowned upon.

 

[marcinek]

If they have a utility or design patent, then they can sue. If not. they need to get a utility or design patent. Otherwise, it's fair game for anyone. That is how our society works.

Its nice that you think that way.

Me, as someone who truly enjoys knives, and has great respect for the people who make them, stealing knife makers' designs because it's "fair game" is disgusting.

But I certainly realize people, like yourself, don't have as much passion and interest in knives as I do, and think its fine. YMMY, I guess.

 

[Eli Chaps]

They’ve been confirmed to use M390, not that it really matters to people who don’t bother to research anything.

That guy is a moron who, as pointed out, made all kinds of claims he presented as facts and drug a highly respected member and supporting vendor through the mud before having to issue a public apology video.

Yeah, his voice isn't exactly soothing, but I like his videos because he actually tests and disassembles stuff, which a lot of YouTube reviewers don't/won't. I'm just glad he doesn't show his face too often (the proverbial "face for radio").

59.2 HRC is on the low end of normal for M390, but Spyderco's M390 has tested at the same hardness, so I wouldn't get too worried about it. For context, Microtech M390 has tested below 58 HRC, which is definitely outside the norm.

While I understand the moral sentiment against otherwise legal clones, when it involves a company with a record of openly infringing IP of competitors (e.g., Microtech), I have a hard time feeling sympathetic. I also think there's value for the industry as a whole to encourage competent companies to shift from making clones to making their own designs.

I'm going to go with the determination of the company doing the PMI; they say it was M390 and I have no reason to doubt them. As far as individual elements, handheld XRF can't detect elements lighter than magnesium (including carbon and nitrogen). The silicon level in the test sample is closer to M390's normal standard (0.7) than the silicon level of CPM20CV, which is considered to be a copy of M390, so I'm not sure it's significant. Maybe it's because the M390 patent specs silicon at 1% max. I'm no metallurgist, so I'll defer to the experts doing the PMI.

Handheld XRF's are notoriously inaccurate. I'm not going to watch that video because I ain't giving that knucklehead a view but handhelds should be considered sorting tools not composition confirmation tools. The best way to know the actual composition is to conduct a destructive GDMS test.

 

[Danke42]

That guy is a moron who, as pointed out, made all kinds of claims he presented as facts and drug a highly respected member and supporting vendor through the mud before having to issue a public apology video.





Handheld XRF's are notoriously inaccurate. I'm not going to watch that video because I ain't giving that knucklehead a view but handhelds should be considered sorting tools not composition confirmation tools. The best way to know the actual composition is to conduct a destructive GDMS test.

Sent them to me! I learned how to do a spark test by watching Forged in Fire!

 

[Aheron]

Their resolution process is maddening . NOT recommended !

With Amazon usually you can at least get your money back .

No, unless they have the knife available, i bought lot of stuff from Ali, not everything is rubbish but very often those companies vanish because they are illegal or similar, so unless you have the knife there then its a different story, and be careful what you buy, i have bought expensive ' quality knifes' at ali so i can train myself and to see how much they can hold, Believe you me or not, some of their knifes are still with me, strong sturdy i can still sharp them and use them, 2 of them were from hx outdoor knifes called ' old rock and now new rock' there are 3 models, i have 2 latest ones, tried both of them for fun like i said, and they are still strong, so good luck hope this helped you a bit, but you want good knife better save and go for, example KA- BAR or whatever- Happy Holidays

 

[Danke42]

Classic