all round gun for self-defence and survival

W

Will

Joined
Jan 4, 2003
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I am starting to get into shooting, and want to start getting into hunting. I am looking from advice from those of you who are avid hunters. I work in the backcountry where many people carry guns for self-defence against polar and grizzly bears. An ideal first firearm for me would be something for self-defence that would also be good for survival hunting should I be stuck spending a few unplanned nights out.

For a night out, I probably wouldn't be looking to shoot large game, and though a small caliber rifle like .22 would be good for little things like squirrels, I don't think it would be suitable for bear defence. A larger caliber like a 30-06 might not be the best choice for survival though. One guy I worked with carries a small 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs for bears, and carries shots for survival purposes. His thinking is that the slugs will stop a polar bear, and the shots can be good for hunting small game and birds should weather or some other unforseen factor prevent the helecopter pick-up at the end of day.

What do you guys think about this?

Will
 
I would call some of the outfitters in your area and see what they recomend. I personally like the Marlin 45-70 guide gun.
 
Pistol or long gun? You will probably have to decide if bear defense is really part of the requirement. If it is, it will greatly limit your choices. If not, then you have a whole bunch of options.

Living in BC, the shotgun is a smart choice. Very versatile.
 
Sounds like the shotgun would be a good compromise. For slugs on dangerous game I would recommend Winchester Partition Gold slugs.
Scott
 
12 Partition slugs or 45-70. Handguns are not nearly as good. Your first line of defense should be a dog , your early warning system .
 
Razorback - Knives said:
Sounds like the shotgun would be a good compromise. For slugs on dangerous game I would recommend Winchester Partition Gold slugs.
Scott
Click to expand...

I'll second that, if you want one "all around" survival gun, capable of "doing it all" a .12 gauge shotgun is the ticket. Switch ammo and you can kill anything in North America, chipmunk to charging grizzly.
 
[digidude] said:
I know nothing about guns, so dont laugh at me for this question. What are Slugs?
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The word slug is often used for any projectile or bullet. In a shotgun it's a single projectile incased in a shotshell hull. The advancemnet of shotgun slugs has brought me back to using them on deer. The rifled slug or often called pumpkin ball sucks as far as killing power. Winchester Partition Gold or Platinum tip slugs are actually a handgun bullet in a shotshell. I use the 20 gauge Platinum Tips (260 gr.) in my TC Encore and it will drop a deer like a sack of shiit.
Scott
 
If you can find them, I would highly recommend Brenneke slugs rather than the saboted ones using handgun bullets. If not Brenneke, get one-ounce foster style slugs from Winchester. About twenty five years ago I did quite a bit of testing with these and was most impressed with their penetrating ability. I'd divulge more, but the more squeamish here might be upset.
 
Your friend's idea is a good one, the 12 ga is about as versatile as you can get to cover what you said. Ammo is bulky but you won't need a great deal of it if you are just keeping it for protection or emergency hunting.

I could be wrong but in Canada do you even have the option of a handgun?

In Alaska we always had a .22 revolver along for small game. We got seven or eight spruce grouse and a Ptarmigan with it while I was there. Some were kiled with a .357. Later as I was leaving a friend showed up with a 12 ga riot gun and they got a pile of birds with it. Mac
 
I am not sure what the "real" name is but here in the Texas hill country a lot of people use what I have always called a "rancher gun". It's a shot gun with a .22 on top, riding piggy back like an over under double barrel...a little tab on the trigger switched up or down designates which barrel your going to fire, I have even seen them with .30 cal top barrel...very versatile, you can keep a shotgun shell for snakes and a .22 for varmints...only draw back is that you only have 1 of each shot before you have to reload.
 
Thanks for the replies. It sounds like the shotgun is the better choice for all round pertection/survival.

Mete: a dog isn't always practical on the job. Also, I have read that one must be careful with dogs, and keep them leashed as they can often attract bears bringing them back to their master.

Pict: Hunting with handguns is illegal, but they can be carried for pretection against wildlife. However, they are restricted, and there is A LOT of paperwork and hurdles to jump over to carry them. A long gun is the better choice for now.

Will
 
I love rifles as my favorite type long gun.Realistically though a 12 guage shotgun is going to be more versatile.I use Brenneke slugs myself,and they are very effective.In fact with today's slugs and barrels you can push the effective range possibly up to 200yards with a shotgun. A shotgun has a variety of shotshells,so it is very versatile for small game etc.
 
It's going to be hard to beat a decent 12 ga pump like an Rem 870 as an all- around firearm in your situation. The 870 has so many options and configurations it really can be taylored to suit your needs. Most people agree that the 870 is the benchmark when it comes to pump guns.

I have mine set up with a 20 inch smoothbore barrel and rifle sights. It also has an extended magazine that allows a total of eight rounds. That makes the gun heavy when fully loaded. If you take the extended mag off it is much lighter to carry and I can swap the 20 inch barrel for the 26 and it makes a good bird gun. If I really wanted a light/handy package I'd buy an 18.5 inch barrel w/ five shot mag.

Avoid the stockless pistol grip configuration unless you plan to hunt alligators in the sewer system. These give the illusiuon of portability but drastically reduce the effectiveness of the gun. I only mention that because I have seen them carried that way for bear defense and I think it is a mistake.

You can install a variety of folding stocks on the 870 but they can be hard on the cheek, especially with heavy loads and they don't handle as well as the plain wood IMO. Mac
 
A shot gun with a 3&1/2" chamber and interchangable choke tubes is about the most versatile gun going. From bird shot to 00 buck shot. It can use 2&3/4" - 3&1/2" shells. The interchangable choke tubes can include a rifled one for slugs.
 
Gotta agree with Pict on the pistol grip. I got my 870 in 1976 immediately after selling off a steer that I raised from a three day old calf, and rarely used my H&R Topper after that. Got a 20" smoothbore slug barrel with rifle sights shortly thereafter, and proceeded to shoot a lot of slugs and 00 Buckshot with it to learn what it could do. I'd feel very confident with it on deer up to 75 yards, which in thick woods is about as far as I ever got a shot anyway.

I wouldn't hesitate for an instant to use it for bear defense with the right slugs. I also put an eight shot magazine extension on it, along with a flashlight mount (one that goes on the side, not the newer one that goes on the fore end under the barrel), along with a pistol grip, all bought from Choate Machine and Tool in Baldknob Arkansas. I thought I was one cool teenager.

Anyway, still have the magazine extension on it, and it resides a few feet from my bed in the front of the safe. The pistol grip and flashlight mount reside in a cigar box in the basement on a shelf above the reloading bench. The pistol grip was fun for awhile, but I can't see much of a use for it myself.

If you want good, cheap bear medicine that can be useful for other things as well, get whatever 12 guage 870 or Mossberg 500 that you can find on sale and Walmart, along with a box of Brenneke or Winchester foster slugs, and you'll be well served.
 
I'm just getting started in survival stuff but can vouch for the 870. We used them forever in my job (small town cop). They were accurate and easy to handle. I have a Winchester Defender which is very similar. We had a short barrel/pistol grip 870 for a long time and it was very hard to handle, we finally went to long stocks for all of them. My Defender came with the pistol grip and black foregrip, the pistol grip came off after the first use. At work, we just went to AR-15's so the 870's are on their way out-would be nice to have both but the budget won't allow it.
 
Another vote for the 12 gauge. History shows them to be the most versatile gun. No question that it is perfect for small game and to hunt big game or protection against dangerous animals(human or beast)The Brenneke magnum slug has around 2550 ft/lb and very good knock down power and penetration. I personally would prefer a double sxs with outside hammers and double triggers. It gives you a very fast follow up shot, and , if it has sidelocks(a seperate lock for each hammer) has the advantage of still being a functional (single) shot gun for the case one lock fails.also it can stay loaded without beeing cocked(not possible with hammerless shotguns). That concept has worked with heavy double rifles for many professional hunters in afrika and asia for dangerous games in the past and is still a good idea that, imho, can be transferred to shotguns using slugs. doubles are shorter than pumpactions with comparable barrellength. Most of the doubles are pretty longbarreled but its easy to cut them down to the legal minimum which makes them very handy.12 gauge ammo can be found everywhere and even in many countries wich have strict gun laws a shotgun is easier to get than other firearms. The shotgun is only limited in its range,in most case that is off less importance for selfdefense or survival.Ammo is heavy, but how much do you need for a realistic survival situation? The 12 gauge in this form is THE gun I would take if my choice is limited to one, period. There are combination guns with two or three barrels, especially popular here in europe wich could be another viable choice but are sometimes to complicated concerning the handling/chosing the right barrel/safty features.Tell me ONE thing another gun can do better than a 12 gauge and I tell you two things the shotgun is better at than that gun.
 
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