All the lessons learned--except that little matter of personal responsibility

Don't let James Kim's Saab fool you. It was the derisively nicknamed Saabaru.

One could argue that the bad decisionmaking has been long on display.

http://www.azcentral.com/class/marketplace/cars/0612wheels12saabintro.html

When you overpay for badge reengineering, there isn't much left over for baubles.

I disagree with Bulgron all of the time, but this isn't a liberal/conservative post, especially since folks of all stripes like to outsource personal responsibility, some to the Gubmint and some to God.

Had I intended a political taint to this thread, I'd have posted it in the Political Arena.

My larger point for putting it into Wilderness & Survival is because it was here that we all tracked the story and because Spencer Kim's response is telling of a mentality, not specifically grounded in liberals, (Sarah Brady was a Republican), that seeks a governmental response to a tragedy because they cannot accept that sometimes bad things happen to the undeserving and sometimes people do get everything they have coming to them.

Knock it off on the politically snide commentary and engage Spencer Kim's article on its merits or lack thereof. It's folks like Spencer Kim who'd get the wilderness locked off as too dangerous for anybody and then where would we be? I'd rather have liberal allies against Spencer Kim's position than people I have needlessly offended with a label who might have otherwise found common cause against such overweening claptrap.
 
This article is the most ridiculous thing I have read in quite some time. It would seem, that according to the father, that Kim had absolutly no culpablity in the situation he got himself and his family into. Of all the "Lessons Learned", not one relates to what Kim could have done differently to get himself and his family out of trouble. It is a very unfortunate situation, but the foolish actions of Kim resulted in this tragic situation, and ultimately, his death.

Call me cynical, but this appears to me to be the first step in a massive lawsuit where the father will try to punish every person who he feels should have done something to keep his foolish son out of trouble. :thumbdn:
 
BTW for you gear heads - the technology doesn't always work - GPS may not work in thick forest- cell phones and amateur radio may not work where towers are sparse or when you're in the mountains .Other things may effect them too .How many of you know that the large solar flare we had last month interfered with all of the three thing s !!! Always have a good topo map and brains !
 
We should cut this guy a break. Like many people in his situation, he may not be thinking all too clearly. For the time being, we can let the guy vent without while letting his ideas die as time fades, the way they most likely will.
 
I keep a road atlas in the truck, but I do my trip planning with the mapping software that came with the Garmin. It does all the time-distance calculations for me and it's been pretty damn close since I started using it. The newer units are in color and have a lot more memory for storing maps, but I like the small size of the GPS V so I hesitate to upgrade.

Whatever -- my view for the past few years has been that the U.S. military has invested billions in the satellite program and all it takes is a small investment to take advantage of it. Lots of folks will say they don't trust anything with a battery, but mine hasn't failed once in almost four years of use. It was a great investment.
 
shecky said:
We should cut this guy a break. Like many people in his situation, he may not be thinking all too clearly. For the time being, we can let the guy vent without while letting his ideas die as time fades, the way they most likely will.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm also wondering how much selective quoting went on in that story on the part of the press. It's always worth remembering that in any given news article, the story that gets told is the story that the PRESS wants to be told.

For all we know, Spencer Kim spent time talking about the things you can do to prepare for/prevent an event like this, but the press decided not to talk about that (because, for example, there's already been a lot of news ink spilled on the subject).
 
ras said:
I keep a road atlas in the truck, but I do my trip planning with the mapping software that came with the Garmin.
Click to expand...

You mean you do your planning on your PC and then transfer the route to the Garmin itself, or do you actually use the Garmin unit that's in your vehicle to plan the trip? I find the actual GPS unit has too small of a screen to do actual trip planning; I prefer a good old fashion map for that.

I also find that if I ask the GPS unit in my wife's car to find a route to a given address, about half the time it picks a route that isn't, in my opinion, optimum. So I use a map and then program in waypoints if I'm particular about how I'm going to get to where ever I'm going.
 
The GPS came with mapping software for your PC and I do the planning on the computer. I loaded the software into my laptop so when I'm traveling I can update the maps that are in the GPS (via serial cable). Only 19 meg memory in the GPS so I can only store detail maps for parts of my trips. The GPS' basemap covers the entire U.S.
 
I truly hope that it was grief that motivated the writing of the article and that it does not reflect Spencers true character. I hope that Spencer did not raise his son to believe that the government and society would be responsible for his safety and well being. I hope that he would have taught him to own responsibility for his actions and to act accordingly. If the article was a true reflection of his character then I hope for the sake of his grandchildren that he doesn't have an active role in their upbringing, lest history repeat itself.

I don't know Spencer Kim so I will give him the benefit of the doubt, grief can cause you to do things that you wouldn't normally do.
 
Dodging responsibility for one's own actions seems more common today that when I was young. Maybe it is just my perception of things. It just seems that when things go wrong, the fashion is to try to find someone else to blame. My own kids try this dodge, my ex wife too. It is always someone else's fault.

I don't recall my Grandfather having this attitude. Maybe he did and I was just too young to notice it. But I don't think so. He grew up in a day and time when the Missisippi River Delta of Arkansas was still a frontier. Civilization, other than the then far away Memphis, was limited to a few scattered plantation company stores, and the small communities that sprang up around them. Farming meant reclaiming land from the river. Toiling with mules from sunup to sundown pulling cypress stumps, adding an acre or two a year to the ground where you could grow cotton, wheat, oats, and corn. Sometimes the river came and took it all back. This happened in the 1920's. There were no helocopters, no swamp boats. And who do you blame? God? No, Greatgrandpa was one of the first circuit riding ministers in the Arkansas Territory, so blaming God was not an option. He made a raft from his front porch and poled his posessions and family to high ground. Then started all over when the flood waters receeded. He was well established a few years later when the depression hit. And it hit the Delta dirt farmers hard. But who could you blame? He just dug in and worked harder, added chickens and hogs, planted pecan and pear trees, set each family of workers to tending a large garden plot, as much as they could care for. Assuming responsibility for your actions goes a long way to dispelling the need to look for fault.

Codger
 
Mr. Kim's death, while sad, was preventable. His father's sadness is normal. But his opinions carry no more weight than mine. Kim should have never chosen to drive a road up a mountain like that during the winter. Heck I check weather conditions just to travel the interstate in the winter.
 
Well, except for the fact that Spencer Kim gets to megaphone his victimization rant from the pages of the WaPo and not you, nor anyone else for that matter, gets a rejoinder, your opinions carry the same weight, just not the same impact.
 
The saab would be great off road but needs real tires like Blizzaks or somthing. I used to have an STi and the tires made it a snowmobile, without them it sucked in the snow. The only disadvantage that he had was the ground clearance, some of those roads require serious offroad machines.

The dad is right, those signs dont show up too well when its really snowy and can get people confused. Regardless if he would have survived or not he was no dumbass and better signs could have saved him. He is not the only person this has happened to. He should have had extra gear and food but he might not have been an outdoors person and did not own much camping gear. Its easy to second guess yourself in these situations and you have to say hey im not in the city rules have changed we could die, or you will...
 
Codger_64 said:
Dodging responsibility for one's own actions seems more common today that when I was young. Maybe it is just my perception of things. It just seems that when things go wrong, the fashion is to try to find someone else to blame. My own kids try this dodge, my ex wife too. It is always someone else's fault.

I don't recall my Grandfather having this attitude. Maybe he did and I was just too young to notice it. But I don't think so. He grew up in a day and time when the Missisippi River Delta of Arkansas was still a frontier. Civilization, other than the then far away Memphis, was limited to a few scattered plantation company stores, and the small communities that sprang up around them. Farming meant reclaiming land from the river. Toiling with mules from sunup to sundown pulling cypress stumps, adding an acre or two a year to the ground where you could grow cotton, wheat, oats, and corn. Sometimes the river came and took it all back. This happened in the 1920's. There were no helocopters, no swamp boats. And who do you blame? God? No, Greatgrandpa was one of the first circuit riding ministers in the Arkansas Territory, so blaming God was not an option. He made a raft from his front porch and poled his posessions and family to high ground. Then started all over when the flood waters receeded. He was well established a few years later when the depression hit. And it hit the Delta dirt farmers hard. But who could you blame? He just dug in and worked harder, added chickens and hogs, planted pecan and pear trees, set each family of workers to tending a large garden plot, as much as they could care for. Assuming responsibility for your actions goes a long way to dispelling the need to look for fault.

Codger
Click to expand...

Codger hit the nail on the head for me. I couldn't have said it better. Why take responsibility for your own actions when you can blame everything else:confused:
 
I agree with Codger and many others who posted. Just as an FYI, there is a device that gets alot of press on www.equipped.org, and it's called a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB). Please go and check it out. It may not be that people on this forum need it (I have a feeling that some of us would welcome being stranded from time to time ;) ), but you can at least recommend it to people who don't share the preparedness mindset.

The main thing that struck me was the SAR quote about the PLB - It takes the search out of search and rescue.
 
Codger, very eloquently said (as always). I agree that the externalization of blame for every responsibility is rampant in our society. In this case I'm afraid that it may have prevented the only positive outcome from this tragedy; an education in caution, common sense, and preparedness for the general public. I cringed when I kept seeing that public safety official state that "Mr. Kim did nothing wrong". I only hope that a few wise souls will come here, watch Les Stroud, or do some other small thing to better prepare themselves to avoid making those sorts of wrong turns and bad decisions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top