Alone Season 2

I asked my son-in-law last night while watching the show if he had never been alone in the wilderness for two weeks to a month and he said no. Is this really that uncommon among "outdoorsmen" these days? If so, it is surprising to me. And more so among men and women who knew the score when they signed up for this show/contest. They had to know the duration of last year's show. Just under two months? But now mental issues appearing after just two weeks or so? "survival" is as much mental as physical, if not more so. One would think this aspect is where some military field experience might come in handy. Of course that includes social interaction in the field so...


ETA: It would be a very interesting topic for a poll here if someone were so inclined. Multiple choice, what is the longest time you have spent alone unsupported in the wilderness?
 
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I think that's a big part of it, Codger. I discussed it a bit in last season's thread, and I also think part of the problem is the social media aspect of bushcraft now. People go into the woods mostly for single nights or weekends and the videoing has a social aspect to it, or even worse, an entertainment aspect to it - so people aren't really alone even when they go out alone.

They are thinking of their viewers and are only out for a short time so this prevents them from ever being connected in the woods. Essentially, they are still connected to the city.
 
To play devil's advocate....

How long would you WANT to spend alone unsupported in the wilderness?
 
I don't know that it is just a question of 'want', nor should it be. It used to be that it wasn't considered camping unless you were out there for 30 days or so. And for these people it is not just a simple camping trip, they are setting out in a challenge to prove their survival skills and stay longer than 9 others.

As such, anyone with at least an advanced skillset (and most seem to be there at least, some may even be considered experts) should be going out there thinking they may have to stay for a year.

In my experience, a week is just getting the feeling of being out there, just getting started. So to have severe anxiety after a week or two suggests that some do not spend a lot of time alone. This is part of the world today, there is a huge social aspect to survival and bushcraft, as well as a materialist aspect, which limits skills and abilities.

You can tell very easily who is comfortable in the woods and who is comfortable with themselves. Tracy and Mike are good examples, very comfortable in the woods, not so comfortable in themselves. Justin shows us the other side of the military background, someone not that comfortable in woods survival but very comfortable alone (generally military personnel have a great skillset but rely heavily on their brothers in arms).

Dave seems quite comfortable with himself as well as in the woods, but getting some poor luck. And Jose seems very comfortable in the woods and being alone. We can also look back to who won the first season and why. Alan may have had equal or even less skill than some of the other guys, but he was very comfortable on his own and confident as a person.

Often a lack of confidence leads to social anxiety and also a drive to be social. It seems counter-intuitive but the overdetermined social drive in people today is due to their weakness and lack of confidence in themselves.

The money should be a huge factor, Dave had mentioned this in a previous episode. And simply proving to themselves their own strength should be the main factor, as we see with Jose wanting to escape 'survival' and employ 'wilderness living.' For Nicole, there seems to be a personal or emotional journey involved, perhaps that is what motivates her. And for Randy, he mentioned wanting to end on a high note - which suggests to me the very American tendency to view nature as escapism and a sort of art. To go into the woods and receive a feeling of freedom and transcendence, or to end on a high note, is to feed off of the romantic feelings of the forest; and there is a destructive side to this practise as we see in the case of Christopher McCandless or the groups who recently died on Everest because there are crowds of inexperienced people trying to climb.

They all have their own personal journeys, but their individual temper and motivation can give us an idea of the amount of time they are capable of spending in the woods. For the social butterflies out there it seems that severe anxiety sets in from the moment they land up to two weeks or so. And even for the very experienced I think 2-3 months is the point of the wall, or perhaps we could call it 'survival fatigue'. For myself, I would want to prove that I can at least break through that wall as there is some biological boundary which causes people to seek return to society at that point. Being able to overcome such a thing is an important element of self-discipline.

All that said, I don't look down on any of them for leaving. Again, they are all at their own level of experience with themselves and the woods. My thoughts are just some reflections on why people may be feeling isolation fatigue much sooner than in the past.
 
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I asked my son-in-law last night while watching the show if he had never been alone in the wilderness for two weeks to a month and he said no. Is this really that uncommon among "outdoorsmen" these days? If so, it is surprising to me. And more so among men and women who knew the score when they signed up for this show/contest. They had to know the duration of last year's show. Just under two months? But now mental issues appearing after just two weeks or so? "survival" is as much mental as physical, if not more so. One would think this aspect is where some military field experience might come in handy. Of course that includes social interaction in the field so...


ETA: It would be a very interesting topic for a poll here if someone were so inclined. Multiple choice, what is the longest time you have spent alone unsupported in the wilderness?

To a great extend I agree with your observation but most folks (outdoorsman in mind), cannot break away for two weeks to a month to wilderness treck due to either family or work commitments (or a combination of the two). I think back in my earlier years and wish I could have done some of the venturing that Sam Larson (from season 1) has/had done at his early age. I'm an Army retiree and would agree that isolation can occur and often encountered in courses like SERE or on certain type of field exercises but often for not more than a few days at most, learning to thrive in austere environments just creates another variable in the equation. We (military folks in mind) have always seemed to manage to find something to occupy our time but something that always encouraged me to push through adversity weather a field problem or in Ranger School was the "clock cannot stop" mindset, always knew the end was closing day after day and it would all be over. These folks on Alone cannot forsee that factor and is probably (in my opinion) the mental mindset that is hard to overcome. I believe it was Mike that stated it best by just getting the mindset to stay a year. Any less would/will of course be best.
 
Good observations guys! Thanks! I mentioned earlier that the videography part would likely trip me up. And I have to wonder how much that, the need to film and narrate... vocalize one's thoughts... is providing a feedback loop to the participants which not only adds drama in the cutting room but directly affects/affirms their self doubts and feelings of social isolation? Magnifies it so to speak?
 
The length of the winter is what most folks seemed to stay alone back when it the thing to do.

There was a race to get your supplies up to your cabin before the freeze-in, then a winter of trapping and hunting, and then the wait for spring breakup to take your furs down to the post.

Maybe six months average?
 
The length of the winter is what most folks seemed to stay alone back when it the thing to do.

There was a race to get your supplies up to your cabin before the freeze-in, then a winter of trapping and hunting, and then the wait for spring breakup to take your furs down to the post.

Maybe six months average?

Not aware of a freeze-up in that region, believe they said it avg's around the low 40's in the winter. In my opinion however and experience, a cold wet is much more miserable than a cold dry at lower temps.
 
Not aware of a freeze-up in that region, believe they said it avg's around the low 40's in the winter. In my opinion however and experience, a cold wet is much more miserable than a cold dry at lower temps.

That was more a general reply to C-64s post about how long folks could stand to be alone.
 
Good answer CW. :thumbup:

I agree with your assessment of the contestants... I also think a very good assessment of the contestants odds could be made by simply ignoring all the other stuff and assessing how comfortable they are in their own skin. The shelters, fires, and foraging are just a distraction from, and a necessary evil of, the main event. Does that give a negative tone to the show? Are we dicks for watching as a harsh environment and isolation breaks down good people in a last man standing challenge? Pah. I guess they signed up for it and they had their reasons for having a go.

For my part I question the need for rigid solitude in enjoying nature. To answer Codger's question I have gone (on many occasions) for spans of months in camps with not much company working on solo projects. BUT I did still do supply runs once a week into town as well as exchanging a few words here and there with the other lost souls who lived and worked nearby. Phone lines and power were still up even when there weren't a lot of calls to be made. Fish and game quotas were used to harvest game for the freezer. Wild edibles were harvested for fun and flavor. Both were done selectively so I have to this day never tasted mouse. I never felt like less of a man for breaking isolation because isolation itself was never my purpose for my being in the wilderness. I could not tell you what my longest uninterrupted, unplugged time alone was. It never occurred to me to count and I don't think it would be an enjoyable way of experiencing nature for me.

I still WANT my supplies, my coffee, a good chat, and maybe a confirmation that the world will still be there when I want to go back... Because I will eventually want to go back... to reliable power and good plumbing... because shitting in the tall grass and doing your laundry by hand gets old. I spent time in the woods because I was doing meaningful work, I enjoyed the fresh air, didn't mind stretches of solitude, and had the support of and a link to society while doing it. There was a purpose to it. I don't think I would have lasted without a sense of purpose.

I like a mix of modern and primitive. :D
 
Pict! Good to see ya back, man. Not long ago some of the old crew on a gun board were asking about you. After you related some of the issues with crime in Brazil, we were a little concerned something bad happened...

But anyway, thanks so much for sharing things from your perspective & helping fill in the blanks. I've never watched a reality type show (don't have cable), but now I guess I'll have to start. I don't know when ya called it quits, but even a couple weeks out there alone is quite an accomplishment to be proud of.
 
For time spent in the woods alone...how many folks have a job that will give them a month off, let alone more?
How many married people have spouses or kids who would be fine with traipsing off for a month or more at a time?
 
Good answer CW. :thumbup:

I agree with your assessment of the contestants... I also think a very good assessment of the contestants odds could be made by simply ignoring all the other stuff and assessing how comfortable they are in their own skin. The shelters, fires, and foraging are just a distraction from, and a necessary evil of, the main event. Does that give a negative tone to the show? Are we dicks for watching as a harsh environment and isolation breaks down good people in a last man standing challenge? Pah. I guess they signed up for it and they had their reasons for having a go.

For my part I question the need for rigid solitude in enjoying nature. To answer Codger's question I have gone (on many occasions) for spans of months in camps with not much company working on solo projects. BUT I did still do supply runs once a week into town as well as exchanging a few words here and there with the other lost souls who lived and worked nearby. Phone lines and power were still up even when there weren't a lot of calls to be made. Fish and game quotas were used to harvest game for the freezer. Wild edibles were harvested for fun and flavor. Both were done selectively so I have to this day never tasted mouse. I never felt like less of a man for breaking isolation because isolation itself was never my purpose for my being in the wilderness. I could not tell you what my longest uninterrupted, unplugged time alone was. It never occurred to me to count and I don't think it would be an enjoyable way of experiencing nature for me.

I still WANT my supplies, my coffee, a good chat, and maybe a confirmation that the world will still be there when I want to go back... Because I will eventually want to go back... to reliable power and good plumbing... because shitting in the tall grass and doing your laundry by hand gets old. I spent time in the woods because I was doing meaningful work, I enjoyed the fresh air, didn't mind stretches of solitude, and had the support of and a link to society while doing it. There was a purpose to it. I don't think I would have lasted without a sense of purpose.

I like a mix of modern and primitive. :D

Yeah, for me I like solitude and reading. Without that or a set destination or project I may not do so well. And you are definitely right about having a purpose, even Justin's "Muscle Beach" is a good idea in theory, even though I disagree with it, because it helps with his psychology.

Essentially, Randy's argument is right, there is no purpose to living in the wilderness alone perpetually. But there is a rite of passage aspect to it, or if you can do it as a group - and this should be what he is focusing on, a rite of passage to strengthen himself (or win that money after thinking of all the things he could do with it). I wonder how the same people would do in a group setting, as some apparently strong individuals don't deal so well with others, and some who need social groups might thrive. We might see seasoned professionals acting like an old married couple in a matter of days or weeks (Dual Survival comes to mind, staged or not).

It is said that any group over 200 people will inevitably fall apart, and many modern hippie communes failed miserably after descending into petty bickering. I wonder if there is some similar threshold for survival. What little I've seen of "Naked and Afraid" suggests that 9 people cannot get along very well at all. But I wonder if this is a failing of modern humans as they refuse to adapt to others: compromise while still being certain in themselves. Or perhaps, again, it is a lack of common purpose which divides them; they are in it only for themselves when there must be a greater purpose for their actions.

I thought this was an interesting discussion of competitive survival vs. real survival:
[video=youtube;eyEQrpQC88g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyEQrpQC88g[/video]
 
I see the question come up, "Didn't they know what they were getting into?"

While living in Brazil, I once elected to have a tooth drilled without anesthesia. I knew what I was getting into. It still hurt like...
 
There is a concept called Dunbar's Number which suggests that a human can handle about 150 stable relationships. I would guess that a community that developed over time could be stable if it was a bit larger, since norms of family ties and esteem of elders could help tie it together, and you rely on other people's relationships as well. When people come in to form a group, unless there is really intentional work, it is very hard to maintain cohesion for long. Group dynamics are part of what I work with, and you'd be shocked at how some people react when forced into a group situation, even if its people they know and otherwise respect. With no Elder or other guide, you end up with an alpha taking over leadership, but others either trying to undermine them or suck up. It happens with grade school kids, and it happens with adults. Since TV Reality is an artificial situation, it adds to the bickering. That sort of behavior doesn't work in real survival as it causes people to die. In a non-survival situation, it means that you have a group that is not functional. Humans need hierarchy, and that takes time to work out. Even if you on the bottom of the food chain, you know where you are, and the more secure that knowledge is, the less stress you have. Its odd, if you can make all your choices, or none of them, you can deal with that. If you know which choices are yours and which are not, again, not bad. Its when you have no day to day control of which choices you get to make that you are under the most stress.

There was some interesting research into Inuit tribes and their apparent lack of anger. But its not that at all, its more of a case of laugh to keep from crying, because they lived so close to the edge that to be excluded was death, conflict was death, social harmony was survival. For other tribes there could be ritualized exile, or combat of honor, and the like, but it requires a surplus of time and resources.

I think Justin's big advantage is that he's used to being alone in his own head a lot, even if he was physically near other people. And that comes from his particular career path. When I worked north of Fort Mac on seismic sites I'd go weeks without a face to face "social" conversation. Everyone else was just a voice on a radio, a map location and a check in time in a log book. There would be weeks where I couldn't make personal calls, or had limited email access. Is it truly alone? Not at all, but compared to the world we live in now where almost all of us are reachable at a moments notice? I think its knowing that the connection is there that makes all the difference. For them its knowing that all they have to do is push the button, but we are so connected in the day to day, I think it makes the temptation that much harder. Knowing when the end is makes anything more bearable. The worst weeks I had in the north were right on breakup where every morning might be another day's pay, or it might be driving south, you never knew.

Not to make generalizations, but I think one of the big mindset factors that is visible between Dave and Randy is that Dave thinks like my Dad, you do the job, because the job is there, and you do it the best you can. Randy has a much more "millennial" mindset, Why am I the one who is doing this job, and should it be me? Not that there is a right or wrong, One comes from a generation that didn't get that many choices, one from a generation who is paralyzed by too many.

I think this season is shaping up more to be about the loneliness than survival, which is very interesting to me.
 
One suspects that the directors are editing with an eye toward emphasizing the "alone" part.
 
I see the question come up, "Didn't they know what they were getting into?"

While living in Brazil, I once elected to have a tooth drilled without anesthesia. I knew what I was getting into. It still hurt like...

This is an aside. As a kid and for the first 16 years of my life, the dentist NEVER used anesthesia for fillings and so forth. Be a man. :D

CW is on to something.... people don't need to get along with each other for long periods of time any more as they always have their books, video games, internet, and social media to fall back on when they are "alone".
 
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