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alternatives to paracord & a micro block and tackle
- Thread starter Bushman5
- Start date
Apples and oranges man. Paracord is a high strength utility cord not a rope. It would be foolish to climb or rescue with it unless it was the only option, but its good to know that it is strong enough to support a large human in an emergency. If you think you'll need a real rope then bring a real rope, but to me paracord is invaluable thanks to its incredible utility. it can be used for just about anything, the stuff is cheap, lightweight, and damn useful. would you cut up your pricey 4mm static K line to hang clothes out to dry, set some snares, hang a hammock, build a lean-to, and suspend a deer for field dressing? I bet not
TRUE! problem is i keep seeing people, (not just here) but everywhere using paracord where it has NO business being used. I see idiots attempting to rappell with it or use it for rescue....
if i needed a quick clotheline, paracord. If i needed to hang a deer, paracord.
However i also like to set high tension lines for big tarps, move logs into place, winch the food and gear high into the trees etc, all which would rapidly exceed the load limit and WEAR limit of paracord. Enter kernmantle static line and some wicked cool little micro pulleys that can double for rescue use.
quibbles aside
perhaps i came off a bit harsh about paracord. I do carry both, but i find for my needs that static line has MORE uses for me.i'll have some pics up of the pulleys and rope tommorow. I'm going drinking right now, got a full night of boozing and industrial music ahead of me
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Pretty much the point of my earlier comment - paracord is not evil, it's just not for everything.
I have been in need of something in addition to paracord and the sorry stuff they call rope that they sell in home improvement stores for a long time. Never knew what to look for. Good information.:thumbup:
As Coote said we don't see Paracord around here to often and it ain't as cheap as you blokes trip over it.
I have used 3mmKernmantle as boot laces for years ( excellent once you sort the knot out)
I have a bit of para cord. But for 90% of what I do I have Hootchie cord 2-3mm soft nylon braid. A hootchie is an Australian army shelter half. I have a 50meter roll in my bob and little hanks and rolls every where every( PSK) . Couldn't camp without it. I have made nets, a hammock, anti-tracking booties, tied up tomatoes and other plants in the garden lashed sticks together for the chooks ( chickens) to roost on.Tied the boys toys to the side of the pram to stop them hitting the ground every 7seconds when he was throwing them out. repaired my pack, dog lead, rifle sling plaited it into a longer stronger rope for an unexpected load on a mates roof rack.
I wouldn't most these things with para cord it is too expensive for my ( before you wonder how cheap I am look at my location and think postage) wallet.
Carl
I have used 3mmKernmantle as boot laces for years ( excellent once you sort the knot out)
I have a bit of para cord. But for 90% of what I do I have Hootchie cord 2-3mm soft nylon braid. A hootchie is an Australian army shelter half. I have a 50meter roll in my bob and little hanks and rolls every where every( PSK) . Couldn't camp without it. I have made nets, a hammock, anti-tracking booties, tied up tomatoes and other plants in the garden lashed sticks together for the chooks ( chickens) to roost on.Tied the boys toys to the side of the pram to stop them hitting the ground every 7seconds when he was throwing them out. repaired my pack, dog lead, rifle sling plaited it into a longer stronger rope for an unexpected load on a mates roof rack.
I wouldn't most these things with para cord it is too expensive for my ( before you wonder how cheap I am look at my location and think postage) wallet.
Carl
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Hey B5, I love paracord but you aren't offending me. A couple of random thoughts:
First of all I want to thank you for posting something that has more W&SS value than what new knife you have (not that they're not fun & entertaining). (this is meant as a compliment to B5, not to slag knife posts)
I've never used the cord/rope you're talking about so I can't offer any intelligent observations, but I have used paracord for many years, and as far as your criticism regarding knots being hard to untie, it really depends on what knots you're using. I'm saying this from the perspective of EDC'ing 5 or 6- 5 foot lengths of 550, many days I use it at work.
It's also true that the small diameter of 550 can cut into your hands when a lot of pressure is applied, but depending on what you're doing, there are some solutions, such as the marlinspike hitch. (wouldn't work for hand over hand lifting of a bear bag, though)
Hanging a bear bag, for many years now, my buddies and I have used a pulley system, actually 2 double pulleys to make the lifting easier and it works very well - easier to lift and cuts down on the rope wear (I've never used 550 for this, but rather other rope). The little pulleys you linked to look very handy, mine are marine pulleys and are quite a bit larger.
I find that the 4 mm static K runs about $0.80/metre at local equipment supply store, so that would make it more expensive for the uses I put it to (lining canoes, putting up tarps, lashing poles, etc.) without any real advantage. It would make it about $24.38 for 100 feet as compared to about $14.00 locally for 550.
Coote raises an excellent point about introducing some stretch in snare cord. Might make the difference between going to bed with a full stomach, or one that's not.
Anyway, I think the next time I pop into MEC, I'll check it out, for size and knot holding ability. Thanks for the idea.
Doc
First of all I want to thank you for posting something that has more W&SS value than what new knife you have (not that they're not fun & entertaining). (this is meant as a compliment to B5, not to slag knife posts)
I've never used the cord/rope you're talking about so I can't offer any intelligent observations, but I have used paracord for many years, and as far as your criticism regarding knots being hard to untie, it really depends on what knots you're using. I'm saying this from the perspective of EDC'ing 5 or 6- 5 foot lengths of 550, many days I use it at work.
It's also true that the small diameter of 550 can cut into your hands when a lot of pressure is applied, but depending on what you're doing, there are some solutions, such as the marlinspike hitch. (wouldn't work for hand over hand lifting of a bear bag, though)
Hanging a bear bag, for many years now, my buddies and I have used a pulley system, actually 2 double pulleys to make the lifting easier and it works very well - easier to lift and cuts down on the rope wear (I've never used 550 for this, but rather other rope). The little pulleys you linked to look very handy, mine are marine pulleys and are quite a bit larger.
I find that the 4 mm static K runs about $0.80/metre at local equipment supply store, so that would make it more expensive for the uses I put it to (lining canoes, putting up tarps, lashing poles, etc.) without any real advantage. It would make it about $24.38 for 100 feet as compared to about $14.00 locally for 550.
Coote raises an excellent point about introducing some stretch in snare cord. Might make the difference between going to bed with a full stomach, or one that's not.
Anyway, I think the next time I pop into MEC, I'll check it out, for size and knot holding ability. Thanks for the idea.
Doc
I hadn't realized that paracord was so expensive in some places. My local Cabela's store has OD green mil spec 550 paracord for $6.99 per 100 ft. and with the $10 off next purchase coupon they send me every few weeks I can pick up 200 feet for $4 + tax
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I can get it cheaper online, but then there's the shipping - ok if I can include it with another purchase.
Doc
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As I haven't seen paracord in person, I thought it is something like 3mm static line available
at a climbing store. Reading the OP, sounds like they are quite different things though.
I'm using 3mm static lines for utility purposes including lanyard on my blades.
I mean utility purpose lines are never loaded with a person's body weight, although it can hold.
I've heard spectra lines have some difficulties in making ties or joining them.
BTW, they are way too expensive for a not so rich climber like me.
at a climbing store. Reading the OP, sounds like they are quite different things though.
I'm using 3mm static lines for utility purposes including lanyard on my blades.
I mean utility purpose lines are never loaded with a person's body weight, although it can hold.
I've heard spectra lines have some difficulties in making ties or joining them.
BTW, they are way too expensive for a not so rich climber like me.
The fishing and aquaculture industries use a lot of cord. Where cord is used in large quantities, chances are that an individual needing some cord will be able to get a good 'deal'. I live in Nelson which is one of New Zealand's main fishing ports. We have companies nearby that suppy the industry with cordage, plus there are netmaking companies etc that keep a lot of cordage on hand for their own work. So I'm quite fortunate.
Occasionally I have called in at a netmakers and have asked if I can take offcuts from their dumpster. I've gotten some really good lengths of useable cord and rope doing this.
And I've also pulled apart big ropes and braided smaller cord from the fibers. I used an electric drill with a wire hook in the chuck to wind small strands to make snare cords. If you want to spend a bit of time you can make a heap of useful small cord by unravelling a length of large diameter three-ply laid rope.
Horticulture and agriculture also require cordage for tying up vines and binding hay bales etc, although this is often just a twine made of twisted film which isn't that wonderful for repeated use.
As mentioned in the thread on recycling, plastic packaging strap can be split into lengths to make a fairly stiff but strong 'cord'. It can make a good snare because it is sometimes stiff enough to hold the noose open
I like to have plenty of the 'essentials' on hand, and cordage is in this category. And on most occasions when I'm out and about I will have at least one small hank of strong cord in my pocket or pack.
Occasionally I have called in at a netmakers and have asked if I can take offcuts from their dumpster. I've gotten some really good lengths of useable cord and rope doing this.
And I've also pulled apart big ropes and braided smaller cord from the fibers. I used an electric drill with a wire hook in the chuck to wind small strands to make snare cords. If you want to spend a bit of time you can make a heap of useful small cord by unravelling a length of large diameter three-ply laid rope.
Horticulture and agriculture also require cordage for tying up vines and binding hay bales etc, although this is often just a twine made of twisted film which isn't that wonderful for repeated use.
As mentioned in the thread on recycling, plastic packaging strap can be split into lengths to make a fairly stiff but strong 'cord'. It can make a good snare because it is sometimes stiff enough to hold the noose open
I like to have plenty of the 'essentials' on hand, and cordage is in this category. And on most occasions when I'm out and about I will have at least one small hank of strong cord in my pocket or pack.
Where can you find it for that price around here
Coote, my Sheep farmer Grandad would no sooner walk down he paddock with out his Shefffield Bunny and a shank of baling twine in his pocket that without his hat. He lamented the demise of baling twine when wire wrapping bales became the way to do it. ( funny though 20yrs later I'm still buying twine wrapped bales)
I made it a practise when I was full time at work to buy the last couple meters off the roll. It has kept myself and my family in short lengths for years but since it is four yrs since I went part time so that is running low. I recently organised to buy 250meters of cheap 4mm polyrope for $25 w'sale. That should keep me going for a while.
I also score the rejected off cuts from my cadet unit construction exercises.but that is Manila.
I can't imagine life without a bit of line.
Carl
I made it a practise when I was full time at work to buy the last couple meters off the roll. It has kept myself and my family in short lengths for years but since it is four yrs since I went part time so that is running low. I recently organised to buy 250meters of cheap 4mm polyrope for $25 w'sale. That should keep me going for a while.
I also score the rejected off cuts from my cadet unit construction exercises.but that is Manila.
I can't imagine life without a bit of line.
Carl
You and your Grandad are similar to me Warrigal. I had an uncle who was famous for his use of bailing twine and other bits of string. He'd have bits wrapped up and stowed all over the place on his small farm.
Gotta have some line on hand.
Polypropylene is good, but I've found that some of it seems to deteriorate over time.... possibly because of UV light or even heat. I think this has been more true for older fine-fibre rope rather than the twisted film rope...although I've seen some badly 'rotted' film rope too. But the price is good, and I've had some good mileage from some of it. Nowadays there is a lot of black polypropylene film rope around that seems to be made for our mussel industry. It is comparatively stiff, but it still is useful and relatively cheap compared to polyester or nylon rope. Mussels are grown around the coast on ropes that hang from big floats. The biggest wild hog I've ever snared was taken in a noose made from black polypropylene film rope that was only about 3/8" diameter. This black stuff seems to resist UV damage comparatively well. It should last for years.
We use a heavy polypropylene film rope for the main mooring rope for our family boat which is permanently moored in the sea. It is nice to work with for splicing etc. This rope floats, so you have to be careful when making a mooring to ensure that it won't float near the surface where a boat may get the rope tangled around the propellor.
Nowadays I buy most of the cordage I need from a company called Quality Equipment. Here is their web page describing the cord I have used a lot of for snares and general jobs. It costs me around NZ$20 to $24 a spool. It is great stuff.
http://qe.co.nz/index.php?pr=B05
Gotta have some line on hand.
Polypropylene is good, but I've found that some of it seems to deteriorate over time.... possibly because of UV light or even heat. I think this has been more true for older fine-fibre rope rather than the twisted film rope...although I've seen some badly 'rotted' film rope too. But the price is good, and I've had some good mileage from some of it. Nowadays there is a lot of black polypropylene film rope around that seems to be made for our mussel industry. It is comparatively stiff, but it still is useful and relatively cheap compared to polyester or nylon rope. Mussels are grown around the coast on ropes that hang from big floats. The biggest wild hog I've ever snared was taken in a noose made from black polypropylene film rope that was only about 3/8" diameter. This black stuff seems to resist UV damage comparatively well. It should last for years.
We use a heavy polypropylene film rope for the main mooring rope for our family boat which is permanently moored in the sea. It is nice to work with for splicing etc. This rope floats, so you have to be careful when making a mooring to ensure that it won't float near the surface where a boat may get the rope tangled around the propellor.
Nowadays I buy most of the cordage I need from a company called Quality Equipment. Here is their web page describing the cord I have used a lot of for snares and general jobs. It costs me around NZ$20 to $24 a spool. It is great stuff.
http://qe.co.nz/index.php?pr=B05
Ok, now we are getting to the meat of this discussion!
Paracord is good for "most" chores. When it comes to "specialized" uses, use the right "stuff!"
I also carry fishing line in fishing kits for fishing!
I have "rope" for hauling gear, pulling larger loads and tying down stuff.
I carry wire for improvising snares and cable snares as well.
If I don't have one of these for the specific use, then my 550 "can be" used in it's place as needed. It isn't the first choice, but it is possible to use it.
The point I was trying to make in my earlier post is that for the cost, it is a great "do-it-all" when that's "all you have!" And for the cost, chances are it will always be with you.
So said, if you plan on rappelling, get a good climbing rope!!! I know the only way I'd use 550 for a safety line is if I was more than likely going to die if I didn't do that!!
To me 550 is the line of last resort and can take the place of all others when necessary!
Paracord is good for "most" chores. When it comes to "specialized" uses, use the right "stuff!"
I also carry fishing line in fishing kits for fishing!
I have "rope" for hauling gear, pulling larger loads and tying down stuff.
I carry wire for improvising snares and cable snares as well.
If I don't have one of these for the specific use, then my 550 "can be" used in it's place as needed. It isn't the first choice, but it is possible to use it.
The point I was trying to make in my earlier post is that for the cost, it is a great "do-it-all" when that's "all you have!" And for the cost, chances are it will always be with you.
So said, if you plan on rappelling, get a good climbing rope!!! I know the only way I'd use 550 for a safety line is if I was more than likely going to die if I didn't do that!!
To me 550 is the line of last resort and can take the place of all others when necessary!
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^ excellent points, again.
one piece of gear that i have been lacking, that has changed my travel behavior in the back country, is a short bit of rope - 20 to 40 feet of it.
there are some great camps that are just not easy to get down to sometimes in the wilder places. - a rope that one had no doubt about would make life easier.
jungle troops almost always have such a rope, in my experience.
great to hang a tarp shelter off of when it gets windy too.
vec
one piece of gear that i have been lacking, that has changed my travel behavior in the back country, is a short bit of rope - 20 to 40 feet of it.
there are some great camps that are just not easy to get down to sometimes in the wilder places. - a rope that one had no doubt about would make life easier.
jungle troops almost always have such a rope, in my experience.
great to hang a tarp shelter off of when it gets windy too.
vec
locally here its about 20 bucks for 100 feet of real paracord, cheaper for the crappy stuff.
that cheap stuff has some very deceptive packaging sometimes, I learned that lesson the hard way. Now I always check for the Mil-C-5040 spec on the packaging. if its not there then I consider the cord to be outright dangerous because they specifically design it to be outwardly identical to real 550 paracord, but it often supports less than half the weight.
mil spec "MIL-C-5040 type III" parachute cord (usually just called 550 paracord) has a minimum breaking strength of 550 lbs or 249 kg
it is also important to know that "minimum" breaking strength rating is when the rope or paracord is NEW. Ropes/cord age and environmental stresses (heat, sunlight, dirt, how the rope is used etc etc) adds to that aging.
Thats why rope users keep a logbook detail every time the rope was used, HOW it was used, condition, etc.
all my ropes end up in my truck for tiedowns after they get "culled" from the rope bag.
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A good post.
Thanks Bushman5.
Marion
Thanks Bushman5.
Marion