Aluminum handles/scales/frame issue

I have a Lionsteel Sr1A. I wanted to get the Ti originally but the Alum version basically seemed just as good. I kind of was looking forward to trying out that sleipner steel though, which I missed out on. Honestly the SR1A seems pretty much just as good as the Sr1. I don't know why people don't like Aluminium. If you put the SR1 and SR1A together you can hardly tell the difference between the two. Also I like my 940 alot. My Microtech Socom Elite is nice too. I guess it just depends how well the knife is done. If it is a nice knife it is a nice knife.
 
If it's a nice knife, it's a nice knife.......period!!!
Very well said LD!!
Joe
 
Yeah I have the Lionsteel SR1A too and the alloy used in that handle is a notch above what most of the big brands use, never once have I missed titanium and I own 3 ti framelocks.
 
Lapedog said:
I have a Lionsteel Sr1A. I wanted to get the Ti originally but the Alum version basically seemed just as good. I kind of was looking forward to trying out that sleipner steel though, which I missed out on. Honestly the SR1A seems pretty much just as good as the Sr1. I don't know why people don't like Aluminium. If you put the SR1 and SR1A together you can hardly tell the difference between the two.
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Aluminum frame-lock?
Aluminum is not a great choice for material to make a spring out of.
 
stabman said:
Aluminum frame-lock?
Aluminum is not a great choice for material to make a spring out of.
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Nah that's a myth. My mountain bikes have been made of Al alloys for over 20 years, if they can take what I dish out this beefy handle will do just fine.
 
crom said:
Nah that's a myth. My mountain bikes have been made of Al alloys for over 20 years, if they can take what I dish out this beefy handle will do just fine.
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Yup!!!
Have a Killer 'V' Cannondale that had been put through hell........still going strong!!
Joe
 
crom said:
Nah that's a myth. My mountain bikes have been made of Al alloys for over 20 years, if they can take what I dish out this beefy handle will do just fine.
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Aluminum frames, sure.
Are you saying the springs in your mountain bike are also made of aluminum?
 
No Titanium spirngs? For shame.

A better comparison would be the wing of a 737.

[video=youtube;FesdpFaPLuE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FesdpFaPLuE[/video]
 
stabman said:
Aluminum frames, sure.
Are you saying the springs in your mountain bike are also made of aluminum?
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I have cracked two in all that time and you know where? The welds. The whole frame is a big spring my man. The tech of butted frames means the walls in the top and down tubes are crazy thin mid ways. Not to mention components like chain rings have been made of aluminum for years and they are tough as nails, but not tough as steel. We'd have heard by now from other companies if Al knife frame locks were no good.
 
crom said:
I have cracked two in all that time and you know where? The welds. The whole frame is a big spring my man. The tech of butted frames means the walls in the top and down tubes are crazy thin mid ways. Not to mention components like chain rings have been made of aluminum for years and they are tough as nails, but not tough as steel.
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Well, my bikes were made of all steel, and generally had no shocks at all. :D
They were very, very heavy.

My last one had some kind of shocks at the front...before it got stolen back in 2003.
Huh, that was actually the last vehicle of any sort I have owned (man, that's kind of sad...oh well, at least I have lots of knives! :)).

Since my back screwed up, the next mountain bike I get will be electric powered and need to have a way to carry my cane, so I admit to being just a little bit completely out of the loop when it comes to bikes. ;)

I have had a lot of knives though, and I stand by the idea that aluminum is not a great choice for springs in knives.
 
For Al vs. Ti I would be more concerned about wear on the lock face from the steel blade. Al is a lot "softer" that Ti so with all the concern about slipping locks it would be a serious point of consideration.

Of course if you put a steel insert in the lockbar then that would negate that concern.

When it comes to materials you can flex a piece of Titanium (or steel) forever and as long as you don't overload it the material will never fail. Alluminum on the other hand will always fail no mater how low you keep the fatigue cycle; eventually it will fatigue and let go. Now the number of cycles can be enormous so that's why you can build stuff like an aircraft wing out of Al since it's no immediate and on an aircraft all the flight hours are logged so folks will know when to take the parts out of service. For something like a knife I think Al would outlast the owner.
 
Danke42 said:
No Titanium spirngs? For shame.

A better comparison would be the wing of a 737.

[video=youtube;FesdpFaPLuE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FesdpFaPLuE[/video]
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That wing is made of 4130 chromoly steel ........covered in aluminum......
 
The framelock Lionsteel SR1a uses a integral design. So the framelock lock bar is infact aluminum. I haven't noticed any problems at all with it so far. I agree however that aluminum would not make a good lock bar face. Apparently they agreed too because they put a steel tab on the lockbar. If I remember correctly the Lionsteel SR1 series was one of the first knives to make use of the now common steel lockbar tab. We see these now on lots of knives to counter the problem of galling found in Ti lockfaces.
 
Danke42 said:
For Al vs. Ti I would be more concerned about wear on the lock face from the steel blade. Al is a lot "softer" that Ti so with all the concern about slipping locks it would be a serious point of consideration.

Of course if you put a steel insert in the lockbar then that would negate that concern.

When it comes to materials you can flex a piece of Titanium (or steel) forever and as long as you don't overload it the material will never fail. Alluminum on the other hand will always fail no mater how low you keep the fatigue cycle; eventually it will fatigue and let go. Now the number of cycles can be enormous so that's why you can build stuff like an aircraft wing out of Al since it's no immediate and on an aircraft all the flight hours are logged so folks will know when to take the parts out of service. For something like a knife I think Al would outlast the owner.
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The Lionsteel SR2-A referred to does have a lock bar insert, steel I believe, I own one as well...no issues and a very nice knife imo.
 
Wowbagger said:
Pretty darned good idea. Any makers doing this ? Alu doesn't take fine thread screws as well as steel liners . . . not for the all thumbs disassembler for cleaning the knife. Not saying it can't be done. I work with high quality alu parts that even have alu SCREWS threaded into alu and if done RIGHT with quality materials and workmanship it isn't an issue but talking serious money for the end product.
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I don't know of anyone doing it and never seen anything similar. I was basically thinking about the reverse of what is done now. You usually see a steel liner with a scale on top that is almost 2-3 times as thick as the liner. I was thinking basically double the typical liner thickness and make it from aluminum and make the scale close to half the liner thickness. That should make for a stiff liner that is also thick enough to reliably thread into with the right alloy. I was taught that if you can get at least 4 rotations worth of threads into most materials (so a screw or bolt can be turned at least 4 times) that there should be enough strength to be reliable and allow enough torque to get proper clamping forces. That was just a good rule of thumb when designing parts and it's always best to have more but it has seemed to work out for me so far. Most screws that are sized for a folder have 32, 40, or 56 threads per inch so that would equate to 1/8" to 1/14" (0.071") thick liners at a minimum for those screw sizes which seems plenty reasonable. Anyways...




Aluminum doesn't do well with repeated plastic deformation which is bending it far enough to make a permanent change. Just flexing which is what should be happening in a frame lock, aluminum is much more tolerant of. Though it will likely eventually fail it should be a high enough cycles not to be an issue for most people. And I don't think anyone's had a problem with their Lionsteel's lock breaking off yet. It's not ideal, but then again, IMO (which means little), neither is the frame lock.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Though it will likely eventually fail it should be a high enough cycles not to be an issue for most people.
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We have folks here who bust steel torsion bars by repeating opening and closing though.
People who admit to using them like worry stones, opening and closing them hundreds of times while watching a single movie. :D
 
stabman said:
We have folks here who bust steel torsion bars by repeating opening and closing though.
People who admit to using them like worry stones, opening and closing them hundreds of times while watching a single movie. :D
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The Lionsteel lock bar is so stiff, that kind of use would either give you tendinitis or you'd be a champion thumb wrastler
 
crom said:
The Lionsteel lock bar is so stiff, that kind of use would either give you tendinitis or you'd be a champion thumb wrastler
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Just don't use it for this! :eek:

[video=youtube;eWtV8eVBxEA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWtV8eVBxEA[/video]
 
I think as far as durability goes, the way the knife is constructed and the thickness of the material matters much more than whether specifically aluminum or titanium is used.

I have owned both aluminum and titanium framed knives that have experienced flexing, warping and denting to the point of affecting operation of the knives.
 
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