Always Have Your Knife

hunter s thompson said:
Why irresponsible? First they were off duty. Second as a working Paramedic I can honestly say I have never seen a knife used on scene for rescue purposes. We have tools that work better and are safer to our patients than a knife. So I don't see why not carrying a knife off duty is irresponsible.
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I suppose we expect our FFighters and EMT to perform off-duty as if they were on duty...just like cops. As a non-EMT or FF, I'm not called on to rescue anyone very often, so I don't have the tools for it...except maybe my SOG Twitch II...which might help in a pinch.

So, Hunter, am I right about that off-duty on-duty thing? If so, what tools do you carry off-duty?
 
~kev~ said:
Its a changing of the times. Ask an older man if he has his knife and he might say - "I have my pants on dont I?"

Ask a young man if he has his knife and he might say - "what do I need a knife for, laughing out loud"

Then there is a difference between people that work in offices and live in the city. And people who live in a rural area.

I think that the way a person was raised, the area where they live and their lifestyle helps define whether or not they will carry their knife on them all the time.
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Same here in the Netherlands. My father and grandfather are of a generation of farmers that always carried a knife. They did not question: "where is my knife?". It was in their pocket, as it always was when they didn't need it.

For work I moved to a city and still live there. People here are different, some are really amazed when they see that I carry a knife. And I found out that the bigger the city, the more scared people are of knives. My city is fortunately a small city. I carry a knife everyday, it is simply part of my EDC, just as my wallet, cell phone, keys and bandanna.
 
It is characteristic of the people who choose those types of careers to selflessly engage danger to rescue another.

Sure there are special tools that on duty rescue people have available that specifically perform much better than anything that can be carried in a pocket. For those that will selflessly throw themselves into danger for others it doesn’t seem that far fetched that a pocket knife could be a handy thing to carry.

I imagine that this type of event, when off duty and so specific to a cutting tool, is rare and caught these guys off guard, think about what you do for a living and imagine an occasion where a life could be saved with your particular knowledge but you have no tools to implement that knowledge, maybe a tool as simple as a screwdriver or saw. Who knows, the best we can do is be prepared as best we can. We are all goofy about knives here but long before the internet, long before ATS-34, long before the Blade Forums and since I was a kid in the Cub Scouts I have carried the simple Swiss Army Knife. A $20.00 knife, as many words that are derived from the alphabet are the events that a simple $20.00 knife can change the outcome of.
 
hunter s thompson said:
Why irresponsible? First they were off duty. Second as a working Paramedic I can honestly say I have never seen a knife used on scene for rescue purposes. We have tools that work better and are safer to our patients than a knife. So I don't see why not carrying a knife off duty is irresponsible.
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As a "working" paramedic myself I have seen knives used literally dozens of times, if not more, on rescue-type scenes by both myself and other "rescuers."

I wouldn't call it irresponsible either. Just a bit out of sorts that neither had one.
Around here if you had 2 FF at least one of them would have a knife on his person. Matter of fact, one local dept even issued all of its FT paid personnel Spyderco Rescues.
 
Sign of the times. Used to be knives were thought of as useful tools. Now, many people think of them as weapons and therefore don't see a reason to carry one.
 
Almost embarrassing. NO, absolutely embarrassing and just another sign of the times and the fact that this country has been brow beaten into stupidity and ignorance by a bunch of panty waste, hand wringing, cry baby, bleeding hearts who worship at the alter of the STATE, who believe in community over individual liberty, and who believe tools or weapons, and practice the religion of political correctness. I'd say what a joke but its not funny anymore and hasn't been for a long time. We are doomed.
 
Thanks for posting. And thanks to all you EMTs, FFs, and LEOs that risk your lives in these situations.

I am a father of four, all in car seats. Oldest is four and the triplets are 8 months old, and a Spyderco Assist is in the Van at all times. I do have question for the EMTs, FFs, and LEOs, regarding use of a knife in an emergency situation to remove a child from a car seat. That is, in some circumstances wouldn't be easier to unbuckle the car seat? Most car seats have two straps that go over the child and buckle into the closure. So, at least two cuts would be necessary per child. Two cuts may take longer than simply unsnapping the buckle. With four kids, every second that could be saved would be critical. Am I missing something? I suppose knives would be especially handy if the individual was unfamiliar with the seat and how it functioned. Is that the primary reason for knives or are there other reasons?
 
MikeC said:
Almost embarrassing. NO, absolutely embarrassing and just another sign of the times and the fact that this country has been brow beaten into stupidity and ignorance by a bunch of panty waste, hand wringing, cry baby, bleeding hearts who worship at the alter of the STATE, who believe in community over individual liberty, and who believe tools or weapons, and practice the religion of political correctness. I'd say what a joke but its not funny anymore and hasn't been for a long time. We are doomed.
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amen brother
 
I am downtown fairly often because my uni is smack dab in the middle of it. Professors, workers, and students alike get mugged, kidnapped, beaten, or shot. I always have my knife on me (until legislation passes that permits for the concealed carry of a firearm on campus for permit holders...which some states have passed already).

EDIT: My professor was sharpening a pencil with his backturned to the class using a knife. It looked like he was struggling; I almost pulled mine out and asked if he needed to use it.
 
jurisprudence said:
Thanks for posting. And thanks to all you EMTs, FFs, and LEOs that risk your lives in these situations.

I am a father of four, all in car seats. Oldest is four and the triplets are 8 months old, and a Spyderco Assist is in the Van at all times. I do have question for the EMTs, FFs, and LEOs, regarding use of a knife in an emergency situation to remove a child from a car seat. That is, in some circumstances wouldn't be easier to unbuckle the car seat? Most car seats have two straps that go over the child and buckle into the closure. So, at least two cuts would be necessary per child. Two cuts may take longer than simply unsnapping the buckle. With four kids, every second that could be saved would be critical. Am I missing something? I suppose knives would be especially handy if the individual was unfamiliar with the seat and how it functioned. Is that the primary reason for knives or are there other reasons?
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Not a fire fighter or LEO, but my boys car seats have a two buckles, one over the chest and one in the middle...two cuts or two buckles. I bet I could cut 'em faster, and I use the seats every day.
 
I always have a knife on me.

That is really sad that tose off duty firemen had no knives on them.
 
MikeC said:
Almost embarrassing. NO, absolutely embarrassing and just another sign of the times and the fact that this country has been brow beaten into stupidity and ignorance by a bunch of panty waste, hand wringing, cry baby, bleeding hearts who worship at the alter of the STATE, who believe in community over individual liberty, and who believe tools or weapons, and practice the religion of political correctness. I'd say what a joke but its not funny anymore and hasn't been for a long time. We are doomed.
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The am fully in agreement with you.
 
jurisprudence said:
Thanks for posting. And thanks to all you EMTs, FFs, and LEOs that risk your lives in these situations.

I am a father of four, all in car seats. Oldest is four and the triplets are 8 months old, and a Spyderco Assist is in the Van at all times. I do have question for the EMTs, FFs, and LEOs, regarding use of a knife in an emergency situation to remove a child from a car seat. That is, in some circumstances wouldn't be easier to unbuckle the car seat? Most car seats have two straps that go over the child and buckle into the closure. So, at least two cuts would be necessary per child. Two cuts may take longer than simply unsnapping the buckle. With four kids, every second that could be saved would be critical. Am I missing something? I suppose knives would be especially handy if the individual was unfamiliar with the seat and how it functioned. Is that the primary reason for knives or are there other reasons?
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I'm not a FF or EMT or cop, but I would think that in many of these accident situations, it may be difficult, if not impossible, to just unbuckle the belt. Especially, as was apparently the case here in this accident, if the vehicle is inverted or on it's side. If the vehicle is overturned, there's likely a lot of force (weight) exerted on the belt and buckle mechanism. If I'm not mistaken, seat belt buckles won't unlatch easily (if at all) with a person's weight exerting force on the mechanism. Also, if the vehicle is very banged up, it may not even be possible to get into the vehicle sufficiently to reach the buckle at all. Add fire/smoke to the scenario, and it'd be even tougher to see or find the buckle (and it might even be too hot to touch). As it is, I would think it'd be quicker just to feel for the strap and cut it.

And, bottom line, if the two gentlemen heros here had been able to reach/find/unbuckle the belt that easily, I'm sure they would've done so.
 
chewbacca said:
Not a fire fighter or LEO, but my boys car seats have a two buckles, one over the chest and one in the middle...two cuts or two buckles. I bet I could cut 'em faster, and I use the seats every day.
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Obsessed with Edges said:
I'm not a FF or EMT or cop, but I would think that in many of these accident situations, it may be difficult, if not impossible, to just unbuckle the belt. Especially, as was apparently the case here in this accident, if the vehicle is inverted or on it's side. If the vehicle is overturned, there's likely a lot of force (weight) exerted on the belt and buckle mechanism. If I'm not mistaken, seat belt buckles won't unlatch easily (if at all) with a person's weight exerting force on the mechanism. Also, if the vehicle is very banged up, it may not even be possible to get into the vehicle sufficiently to reach the buckle at all. Add fire/smoke to the scenario, and it'd be even tougher to see or find the buckle (and it might even be too hot to touch). As it is, I would think it'd be quicker just to feel for the strap and cut it.

And, bottom line, if the two gentlemen heros here had been able to reach/find/unbuckle the belt that easily, I'm sure they would've done so.
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You guys make great points. Obviously car seats vary. For small children, most car seats have the buckles described above, which are not a part of the vehicle's safety restraint system that locks in an accident. These car seats attached with latches to the vehicles seat (most new cars have bars that the seats straps engage). So, in these seats there should not be that much additional force on the buckle. Larger child seats and booster seats that use the vehicle's shoulder strap is a different situation. Perhaps that was what these guys were up against.

I too wondered if a hot buckle would change the answer, requiring use of a knife. These guys were burned in saving the child, so not sure how significant a factor a hot buckle was.

Perhaps they could not reach the buckle, but in most seats if you can reach the strap then you can certainly reach the buckle.

Regarding the time it would take to make two cuts versus unfastening the buckles, I think it would be a very close race in a controlled conditions. Not sure how a terrified child with flailing arms and legs would impact the results, but it seems that it would be more difficult to make the cuts without injuring the child (even with a rescue knife) than to unfasten the buckles.

A reason to go in with a knife is uncertainty. Not knowing what kind of seat it is, if the belt has tightened, or if the buckle is stuck, then going in with a knife could save a lot of valuable time and reduce the amount of time the EMT, FF, or LEO is in danger.

Good points guys. I'm just trying to sort through all the issues in case of an emergency.
 
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I always have one or two knives on me.

I'm a fire LT. in a 500 man dept. I would say that perhaps 50 to maybe 75 % of the guys carry a knife on duty .

Off the job I'd guess, by hanging out,going to dept. functions, union meetings and so forth with the brothers maybe 25% or so carry one off the job.

I would say in my 20 years (and my present co. covers parts of two expressways and are a back up hurst tool co.) i have seen a knife used maybe 2 or 3 times at wrecks.
 
I have a fire extinguisher and Estwing prybar in my car, and always wear my Benchmade Rescue Hook.
 
flashlife said:
I suppose we expect our FFighters and EMT to perform off-duty as if they were on duty...just like cops. As a non-EMT or FF, I'm not called on to rescue anyone very often, so I don't have the tools for it...except maybe my SOG Twitch II...which might help in a pinch.

So, Hunter, am I right about that off-duty on-duty thing? If so, what tools do you carry off-duty?
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I normally carry a knife and a CPR mask(on my keyring) almost everywhere, but there are times when I am away from the house without a knife. I have rendered aid to people while off duty,and will continue to do so but I think it is crappy to say the two guys in the fire were irresponsible. The responsible one (with the knife) looked pretty safe to me. Its really easy to watch a video on the Internet and talk about how irresponsible the men were with their life on the line saving a kid they never met. If the rest of the world were this irresponsible the world would be a much better place IMHO.
 
MikeC said:
Almost embarrassing. NO, absolutely embarrassing and just another sign of the times and the fact that this country has been brow beaten into stupidity and ignorance by a bunch of panty waste, hand wringing, cry baby, bleeding hearts who worship at the alter of the STATE, who believe in community over individual liberty, and who believe tools or weapons, and practice the religion of political correctness. I'd say what a joke but its not funny anymore and hasn't been for a long time. We are doomed.
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:thumbup: Glad to see more people out there have those same type of feelings as me.
 
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