am i crazy for wanting a mini mill??

[Hubert S.]

I agree that there are better tools for getting wood flat. For cutting slots in wa handles, though, a small milling machine is excellent, particularly for thin blades. I use a 1/16" end mill that goes into a 1/8" collet.

 

[Cushing H.]

I agree that there are better tools for getting wood flat. For cutting slots in wa handles, though, a small milling machine is excellent, particularly for thin blades. I use a 1/16" end mill that goes into a 1/8" collet.

Again, flat is not a problem ... it’s the “...and parallel” part. On wa handles the parallel becomes more critical because of stack up errors with multiple components, and with sets, you also add “..of controlled and consistent Thickness”. Again, harder to do either by hand or on a disk sander. I would LOVE to add a disk sander, but like I said, because of space and dust issues I don’t think that can happen anytime soon. :-(

 

[DanF]

If someone is having a problem with working wood, stabilized wood, and some of the “softer handle materials with flycutters, something is wrong.
A maker on another site posted his results and the scales had a smooth, satin finish as if sanded (this was a video he posted, not pics).
Every scale I use is put on the fly cutter. It is what made the mini mill so attractive to me before I started doing slippies with it.

 

[Cushing H.]

Thanks dan. Once I get this baby up and running I will experiment with both end mills and fly cutters. I’ll keep your point in mind. I suspect slow traverse and shallow cuts might be important?

 

[Natlek]

Again, flat is not a problem ... it’s the “...and parallel” part. On wa handles the parallel becomes more critical because of stack up errors with multiple components, and with sets, you also add “..of controlled and consistent Thickness”. Again, harder to do either by hand or on a disk sander. I would LOVE to add a disk sander, but like I said, because of space and dust issues I don’t think that can happen anytime soon. :-(

What kind of wood you use ? Miter saw will cut wood 100 % parallel ................But seems that you already decide that you need that mill.............
With little fine tuning ........................the cut part match 100% and are 1000% parallel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Rocket science !!!

 

[Cushing H.]

I don’t have a miter saw, nor room for it. Yes, I have decided toget it ... I’ve been thinking about it for something like ten months.

why are you spending so much energy trying to convey other options when a number of people have indicated They found their mill to be really useful?

 

[Hubert S.]

Again, flat is not a problem ... it’s the “...and parallel” part. On wa handles the parallel becomes more critical because of stack up errors with multiple components, and with sets, you also add “..of controlled and consistent Thickness”. Again, harder to do either by hand or on a disk sander. I would LOVE to add a disk sander, but like I said, because of space and dust issues I don’t think that can happen anytime soon. :-(

I'm not trying to argue with you. FWIW, I have tried milling wa handle components like you suggest and have not had any decent results on end grain. Might be different with stabilized wood. The face grain is easy to machine flat and parallel with a nice finish, particularly on exotic hardwoods. I use a face mill, but a flycutter should work well also. With the woods I have tried, none of my cutters leave a decent finish on end grain, and the face mill creates massive splintering, end mills just a bit less. You can make it work, but at least for me, it is not a good option. I do not have a disk sander, either. I use a table saw with a cross cut sled and then rough up the end grain with 80 grit paper on a surface plate, takes 10 seconds. If I did not have a table saw, I would use a miter saw or even a douzuki before using the mill.

I think you should get the mill and try it out. The mill is useful for a lot of other things. If you find a way to get decent results milling a stack of wood slices parallel, please post your method.

 

[Cushing H.]

Hubert - sorry ... my comment was directed to natlek, not you (your comments have been great).

umm ... I guess I have not made clear I am NOT looking for the mill to produce some great finish on end grain. I am hoping it will give me the basic controlled dimensions, the flat, and the parallel. With those established, a little judicious hand sanding on a flat plate should then give the finish. And on scales, I have found that if I have the basic flats and thicknesses established, that acts as a good reference to use to then proceed to shaping and sanding.

in short, I am looking for dimensionality, not finish. Does that make sense?

 

[DanF]

Thanks dan. Once I get this baby up and running I will experiment with both end mills and fly cutters. I’ll keep your point in mind. I suspect slow traverse and shallow cuts might be important?

And shaping the bit thinking outside the box. End grain is not a problem for luthiers and professional furniture makers, but you can’t use a bit that is shaped for metal turning and expect good results in wood.
If I can find the vid link tonight, I’ll pm you.

 

[Cushing H.]

And shaping the bit thinking outside the box. End grain is not a problem for luthiers and professional furniture makers, but you can’t use a bit that is shaped for metal turning and expect good results in wood.
If I can find the vid link tonight, I’ll pm you.

Thanks dan. I remember that coming up before

 

[Natlek]

I don’t have a miter saw, nor room for it. Yes, I have decided toget it ... I’ve been thinking about it for something like ten months.

why are you spending so much energy trying to convey other options when a number of people have indicated They found their mill to be really useful?

I m not trying to convey other options or do I want to do that .In your first post in this topic you open you explained your problem to us. Mill to flatten and make parallel inch by inch piece of wood ?????? I give you just other solution to consider ,just that ! Dust issues with disc sander ? As far I know you have belt grinder already ? How you finish your handle ? Wood dust isn't issues on belt grinder ? Disc sander is ten time more useful then mill if we are talking about wood and knives , but carry on

 

[Hubert S.]

in short, I am looking for dimensionality, not finish. Does that make sense?

It makes a lot of sense. In all honesty, I did not spend too much time pursuing this. When I got the mill, I played with it for an afternoon, did not get good results and moved on. I'm really interested to see what you come up with.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

No problem, just making a statement. I have done thousands of scales, and hundreds of two-part handles and wa handles on a belt grinder and disc grinder with no issues.

BTW, if you are short of bench space (and who isn't), put the mill or the drill press on a rolling cart. You can even put both on the same cart. I like the heavy duty 24X36 service carts made in the gray plastic. They are rated at 500 pounds, but 300 is more the reality. They have a deep edged top that keeps stuff from rolling off or disappearing, and also have a handle section with a towel rack, trays and slots for small stuff or tooling, and a place for a beer/soda can. Of course, plain steel rolling carts are fine, too.

 

[Cushing H.]

Natlek - my dust collection is focused around my grinder. Suction below (going to dust deputy with water on bottom and then to vac), and above/behind going through PVC pipe (upper right) feeding a second dust deputy and shop vac. Even then, when working on handles some dust escapes, and to help with that I have a shop filter just out of sight on the floor to the right of the photo.


this photo is just to the left of the grinder: the mini mill will replace the drill press. central space is multi hand-work space (using the porta saw, sanding on a flat plate, tracing profiles, gluing, etc), left of that is the vise (more glue-up, filing, hand sanding whatever). Left of that at the far left of the table is a small space that always gets used to place small hand tools, calipers, etc, etc, etc. just left of that (out of sight) is a small metal storage shelf full of supplies.

The only place on that bench I could place a disk sander is on the far left, which, natlek, is WAY out of reach of my existing dust collection systems.

to the right of the grinder is my lonely old craftsman band saw (which can be hooked up to the second dust deputy/shop vac for dust collection and the floor-rolling shop dust collector:

the only clear option I have thought of is to ditch the craftsman band saw (it has its own problems anyway, but works well enough) and to build a second shelf against the wall behind it. on that shelf put a table mounted bandsaw and add a disk sander there ... but I doubt I will be doing that mod anytime soon (if at all).

Stacy - hopefully the photos help to see that I dont even have room to locate another rolling cart - at least not without creating a tripping hazard....

Stacy - with a combination of the band saw and the grinder, and hand sanding, I have been able to do well enough with scales, but it does take some putzing around and I do not always hit the thickness I would like .... I would just like to better control the actual thickness. Same goes for Wa handles .... but there things have been especially frustrating - going back and forth establishing parallelism on opposite faces (and then getting them flat enough to glue) has come at the cost of, again, putzing around and time taken, but especially at a lack of really hitting the dimensions I want. Take for example the below bolster:


Done with roughing dimensions out on the bandsaw .... I quickly discovered that hitting flat (enough to glue)-and-parallel on the grinder was a lost cause. Hand sanding while often checking face to face dimensions on multiple locations is doable, but slow .... and like I said, often results in not hitting the actual width I want. with multiple components like this, small errors in parallelism add up quickly, so yes, I do want to be able to control to some fairly tight tolerances. In this case, the width of the individual pieces is defined by the "Golden Ratio" ... so there is not a lot of slop before you lose that relative thickness between the pieces. Also, if you do not maintain the parallel between faces - glueing up securely becomes a real problem. I have found that if I establish a good flat, then I can go to a very quick and careful hand sand and get the finish I want without disrupting the flat or losing the face-to-face parallelism.... Maybe with more practice I can get quick at doing all that .... but I just do not have the skill right now.....

 

[Scaniaman]

Agreed that the 2x72 is hard to get things flat and tight on. Belt bump alone is a real pain.
For working wood and making wa handles a disc grinder seems a better and more efficient tool than a mini mill though.
I can also see them really usefull for working outside radius parts like front part of bolsters, and making sure stuff like spine side of handle is straight, flat and square. And for sanding up and squaring mitre cut handle parts!
And then you can work blades on them if you are so inclined..
And you can get disc grinders with good dust collection, much better than on a 2x72.
I just placed an order for a 12" one recently (wouldn't want to go smalller), so maybe biased.. But as an addition to my shop, vs a mini mill, I agree with the above that it seems more usefull.
Btw have you considered a SGA? I would definetly get that before a mini mill as well.

PS. I don't do/need any (slotted) guards, yet.

 

[Cushing H.]

And you can get disc grinders with good dust collection, much better than on a 2x72

Scaniaman - I will take your word that there are disk sanders out there with decent dust collection - it is just that when I have previously gone out there to look I just did not see any (but probably missed them for some reason).

Your points are good .... but (at least for now) I am not looking at making mitre cut handles (though they do look cool!) .... and the rest of the activities you mention I have not really had problems just using the grinder. Take a look at the last photo in my previous post - those component parts of the bolster are all sub 1 inch, the last (smallest) being something like 3-4 mm thick. too small to use the mitre gauge to square it up to the disk .... so you are either stuck with holding the thing by hand with fingers close to that spinning disk and "freehanding" getting the sides parallel, or putting it on the end of a stick/extension block, which has its own problems (and was an unmitigated disaster on the grinder).

If I can get the dust collection and space issue under control, I can easily see getting and using a disk sander. but for now I am thinking that the mill gives me a running chance at getting those small pieces to 90-95% of the way there, plus gives me a better drill press (current one has its own issues), plus gives me a way to machine slots in the front of bolsters (both Wa and brass bolsters on scale based handles).

I dont know .... maybe I will come to regret getting a mill ..... but then again a number of people have said they have gotten them and are very pleased and use them all the time (for the stuff I am talking about).

Lets please put this current discussion to rest - the question of whether to get a mill was discussed months ago ... as I said, I only reopened this to get some feedback on specific models of mills. Though I do sincerely appreciate the input and insights .... I still see trying a mill to be reasonable for me given the way I envision myself using it......

 

[Scaniaman]

Oh, I am sure there is no way you'll regret the mill
And I'll get one too at some point I'm sure.

 

[Cushing H.]

Oh, I am sure there is no way you'll regret the mill
And I'll get one too at some point I'm sure.

LOL ... fair enough.

and I also suspect that at some time I will also get a disk sander....

 

[AVigil]

I have used a HF mini mill for over a decade and made thousands of parts on it.

If I had a choice, just for knifemaking, between a Mini mill or Disc Sander with variable speed, I would choose the disc sander 100%.

You do not need a mill for making knives.
If you only had a good disc sander you could make knives, that is how versatile they are to the knifemaker.

 

[Natlek]

Flat AND parallel for WA handle components. Harder to do either by hand or with a disk sander. Also, I just don’t have room on my bench to add an additional disk sander in addition to my drill press. Also, dust collection with a disk sander is a real problem, and I have a small (10 x 10) enclosed space to work within. I’ve looked at disk sanders a number of times ... but for the above reasons, I don’t think one is in the cards.

you know ... we litigated this months ago ... and a number of people reported that they used a mini mill for creating scales and wa components and were pleased with it for that. Also, I have been wanting to have more capability to machine bolsters, including slotting them. My most recent question was not WHETHER to get a mill, but rather specific concerns with specific models....

Statement first ..............This is the last time i take participation in discussions similar to this one with advice of any kind from my side .No playing forum police any more , obviously not welcome here. In future I will only show knife i finish and the rest of the free time i have ...... read various topics. There is lot to read and learn .......

Now , you know the saying ... there are a million ways to skin a cat? What i was done here is ................I just show you one way.
Ten seconds my friend , take me ten seconds to do this random cut ...........FLAT and PARALLEL to 0.01mm is it that enough for you ? No need to sand anything just proceed with work , glue them ,drill them ...whatever you need to do .This alone part on top is 4.95mm. thick . I will send you ten pieces like that one and when you get that mill MAKE them exactly 3.00 mm .I would really like to see that !And i would eat that cat !
Have a nice day !

Last advice ...........it MATTER with what you start any job ....this walnut is already precise cut so what i was done in pictures was easy ........if I have piece treated with an ax ......it will be hard to get this result , right ?