Am I on the right track buying these budget knives?

Chronovore said:
Petrified Fish is a different company. I've been watching them for a few years now. They've come a long way from making knives in 8Cr13Mov and AUS-8 for other companies. Now they do one of the best heat treatments on Chinese D2 and have started using Bohler K110 with fun handle materials like Micarta, wood, and novel patterns in G-10. They recently started selling on Amazon and are also available at White Mountain Knives.

TwoSun is interesting. Like PF, their steel stamps have been confirmed multiple times via XRF. Build quality is decent. I have a few of their knives. Their kitchen knives in 14C28N are nice. Their TS262 is the most comfortable front flipper I've tried. While they are also available at White Mountain Knives, auction hunting on eBay remains the best way to get them if you don't mind the shipping time from China.

The only real complaint I've seen about TwoSun is that their heat treatment on "super steels" isn't great. For instance, their S90V did not perform as well as S90V from some better-known companies in a test by Cedric&Ada Gear and Outdoors. However, it's worth noting that the edge retention was still pretty good relative to the price of the knife. This actually happens a lot for affordably priced mass-production knives in "super steels". Watching cut testing from Outpost 76, we've seen this with a lot of mass-production knives in S35VN and M390 from different companies.

Overall, the best budget knives are still coming from WE via their sub-brands, Civivi and Sencut. Oppositely to the issue above, they've perfected the heat treatment for 9Cr18Mov. In the same testing format from Outpost 76, WE's $40-50 knives in 9Cr18Mov were able to achieve edge retention a lot closer to those less stellar knives in S35VN or M390 that cost two or three times as much.
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The absolute highest bang for the buck are knives from Land/Sanrenmu. Knives from WE and Ganzo, and arguably others are close behind, but Land/Sanrenmu is leading the pack right now.
 
Chronovore said:
The Chinese government is indisputably terrible. Of course, most big governments are pretty terrible. Do you live in a country where the government doesn't spy on its own people, doesn't encroach heavily upon the rights and liberties of its citizens, doesn't heavily regulate the economy, doesn't "redistribute the wealth", doesn't throw whistleblowers in jail, doesn't interfere with the internal affairs of other nations, doesn't kill people with drones, etc.? Do you live in a country that isn't teeming with Marxist influence or ideology?

Just sayin', if you want to be an activist with your dollars, it's worth considering whether said activism actually accomplishes anything. Honestly, you'd probably accomplish more towards advancing freedom if you bought the well-made knife from China and donated your savings to more direct forms of activism.
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We are still a Constitutional Republic. LOL Maybe Lenin was right when he said that the west is so greedy that they will sell the ropes to hang themselves with.
 
000Robert said:
I don't know, I've never owned one. You are right about the cheaper knives. Nowadays they are better built than they used to be. But I am more picky about where things come from that I buy for other reasons than the price. I'll gladly pay more to keep from helping a communist country.
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I totally respect that, I too really hate aiding & abetting the enemy. China buys a LOT of raw materials from us in Australia but try to bully us too. We for the most part tell them to fK-off. NZ has a leftist government & just said they won't allow us to drive our new USA made nuclear subs through there waters as their so green and clean. They just bow to China. Wait till the chit hits the fan.... they'll forget fast about that BS. I can't wait till we get some nice USA hardware in the water.
 
Stahlmann said:
The absolute highest bang for the buck are knives from Land/Sanrenmu. Knives from WE and Ganzo, and arguably others are close behind, but Land/Sanrenmu is leading the pack right now.
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My pick for best $20 knife in a vacuum would definitely be the Sanrenmu Land that looks like a CRK, but therein lies the trouble. Sure, it might be the best-built knife with the best action at that price and the 12C27 easily outperforms 8Cr13Mov. Unfortunately, having the design so closely "inspired by" someone else's design raises feathers in the EDC community. While not a "counterfeit" and there are differences, many people here would view it as a "clone". The same is true for a lot of Ganzo's models in 440C. They are the right price for a "gift knife" but then I have to wonder if the person will eventually catch gruff from more knowledgeable EDC people.

The stigma also tends to follow the brand. For instance, Ganzo has been making higher quality knives in D2 with original designs for years now. Some people here on the forum and elsewhere in the EDC community remain hostile towards those knives because they carry the Ganzo name. (Forget that those people might own other knives that were quietly made by Ganzo or Sanrenmu for another company or under another brand name and not realize it.) Luckily, the Ruike, Real Steel, and Boker knives coming out of Sanrenmu largely seem to have escaped this curse.

Strictly from a quality perspective, most of the Ganzo and Sanrenmu knives I've had have been okay but there have been occasional QC issues. For instance, I just got a Sanrenmu framelock that came off-center with horrible action and had some internal pitting under the washers on one side. I was able to rehabilitate it but I think most people would have returned it. Of course, I've also experienced QC issues with Artisan and QSP at different price ranges. This is part of what makes Civivi and Sencut so good and totally worth the extra. I've had well over a dozen of those apart for inspection now. They really are made to a higher standard (and they also have state-side warranty support).
 
kobold said:
You won't need the 5000 for it IMHO.
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Yeah the thing about buying nice expensive Japanese whetstones is they can put the finest sharpest most refined edge on a knife. The problem I am finding is to achieve those results you needs years of muscle memory & skills. I just did two knives last night on the #320 then #1000. Got them to just push-cut paper but far from where they could be if I was better. I mean a jig holds the knife or abrasive at a consistent exact angle, freehanding on the stones means 'your' the jig. I'm seriously considering buying a US made KME system, a monkey could drive one and get consistent results. They also have an ax attachment that would be good for some of my Race ax's that I keep hair popping literally razor sharp.
 
Many folks seem to like Spyderco knives, they seem to rate well when they are tested for quality/performance but I've yet to see one that I didn't think was ugly. I just don't like the shape of the blade and style of them but I'm sure there good as people above my pay grade buy them.
 
Chronovore said:
My pick for best $20 knife in a vacuum would definitely be the Sanrenmu Land that looks like a CRK, but therein lies the trouble. Sure, it might be the best-built knife with the best action at that price and the 12C27 easily outperforms 8Cr13Mov. Unfortunately, having the design so closely "inspired by" someone else's design raises feathers in the EDC community. While not a "counterfeit" and there are differences, many people here would view it as a "clone". The same is true for a lot of Ganzo's models in 440C. They are the right price for a "gift knife" but then I have to wonder if the person will eventually catch gruff from more knowledgeable EDC people.
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Given the origin of some of the louder voices in said community, I take their whining with a block of salt these days.
Chronovore said:
The stigma also tends to follow the brand. For instance, Ganzo has been making higher quality knives in D2 with original designs for years now. Some people here on the forum and elsewhere in the EDC community remain hostile towards those knives because they carry the Ganzo name. (Forget that those people might own other knives that were quietly made by Ganzo or Sanrenmu for another company or under another brand name and not realize it.) Luckily, the Ruike, Real Steel, and Boker knives coming out of Sanrenmu largely seem to have escaped this curse.
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I honestly don't consider it to be a "stigma." I largely consider it to be whining, by often poorly informed individuals. Good point about the different labels being manufactured on contract and the confusion that causes some.
Chronovore said:
Strictly from a quality perspective, most of the Ganzo and Sanrenmu knives I've had have been okay but there have been occasional QC issues. For instance, I just got a Sanrenmu framelock that came off-center with horrible action and had some internal pitting under the washers on one side. I was able to rehabilitate it but I think most people would have returned it. Of course, I've also experienced QC issues with Artisan and QSP at different price ranges. This is part of what makes Civivi and Sencut so good and totally worth the extra. I've had well over a dozen of those apart for inspection now. They really are made to a higher standard (and they also have state-side warranty support).
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:thumbsup:
 
Anyone know easiest way to load pics up here? Can you directly upload or need to use a 3ed party like Imgur?
 
Stahlmann said:
Back in the day there was a great deal more truth to the old saying "you get what you paid for."

To use hand tools as an analogy, the socket set or combination wrench set you bought on sale at K-Mart got the job done for many. If you used them long enough or frequently enough or hard enough, you'd run into problems. A stripped ratchet or socket, a bent or broken wrench, etc. Often the failure analysis consisted of proclaiming "damned Jap-Crap."

Those who used their tools more often or in more demanding application often stepped up to Sears Craftsman hand tools. Not only would they stand-up to use/abuse a great deal better than the K-Mart specials, they would typically be replaced if they failed.

The Craftsman owners would often laugh at those who paid ridiculously high prices for Snap-On tools (and with good reason in many cases!) Especially the newbies entering the trade seeking some status, who bought a full set for many thousands of dollars on credit. Nasty.

Yet if they found themselves banging wrenches for 8-10 hours/day they would often succumb to the lures of the Snap-On man. The truly smart ones waited and observed the veteran mechanics. If they were lucky, one would mentor them. Explaining that Craftsmen wrenches were "like clubs." Solid but crude. Same for Craftsmen ratchets. "Get ya a set of Snap-on combination wrenches, and 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" Snap-On ratchets and use them with all the rest of your Craftsmen gear." Great advice.

Times have changed though! Sears no longer owns the Craftsman brand. Most Snap-on tools are no longer made in the US (hello China!) Most befuddling of all, the ratchets and wrenches now sold at the lowest of the low discounters like Harbor Freight now look/feel/perform a great deal like the Snap-On of generations past.

Some are simply in denial about these watershed changes. Changes which apply to knives as well.
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I've used expensive and cheap tools at work

I will take my more expensive German sata rp spray gun without blinking over something cheaper

Yea I can make the cheaper one work, but you can't count on them
 
yoko said:
I've used expensive and cheap tools at work

I will take my more expensive German sata rp spray gun without blinking over something cheaper

Yea I can make the cheaper one work, but you can't count on them
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That all depends on the tool. An old school Craftsman combination wrench is every bit as tough as a Snap-On wrench. But handling the Snap-Ons for hours each day is much easier on the hands. They're physically lighter as well and they're more ergonomic.
 
CR888 said:
Anyone know easiest way to load pics up here? Can you directly upload or need to use a 3ed party like Imgur?
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Use IMGUR, use the BBCode url

Uploading images

Hello, I joined this forum a while ago. I have not posted anything because I have not figured out how to post pictures. How do you load up images? I click on the image icon and it wants me to insert a URL Thank, Chip
bladeforums.com bladeforums.com
 
CR888 said:
Many folks seem to like Spyderco knives, they seem to rate well when they are tested for quality/performance but I've yet to see one that I didn't think was ugly. I just don't like the shape of the blade and style of them but I'm sure there good as people above my pay grade buy them.
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There are humpless models that might do it for you. Eg Native, Chief, Sage, Swayback, Chaparral, Manix maybe.. I also like some with the hump, like the GB2 and the Military.
 
CR888 said:
Yeah the thing about buying nice expensive Japanese whetstones is they can put the finest sharpest most refined edge on a knife. The problem I am finding is to achieve those results you needs years of muscle memory & skills. I just did two knives last night on the #320 then #1000. Got them to just push-cut paper but far from where they could be if I was better. I mean a jig holds the knife or abrasive at a consistent exact angle, freehanding on the stones means 'your' the jig. I'm seriously considering buying a US made KME system, a monkey could drive one and get consistent results. They also have an ax attachment that would be good for some of my Race ax's that I keep hair popping literally razor sharp.
Click to expand...


Or you could DIY a jig for your stones. I saw a few YT videos...
 
CR888 said:
Many folks seem to like Spyderco knives, they seem to rate well when they are tested for quality/performance but I've yet to see one that I didn't think was ugly. I just don't like the shape of the blade and style of them but I'm sure there good as people above my pay grade buy them.
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they looked odd to me too until the moment i actually held one in my hand. the very first one i ever saw and handled in person was their micarta handled wayne goddard model a friend of mine had recieved from his sister for christmas that year, the light bulb immediately went off over my head as i realized how high the quality was compared to any other knife i had handled at that point and then i began to look at them a lot differently

not my pic, but this was the knife
KLC13041.jpg
 
CR888 said:
Many folks seem to like Spyderco knives, they seem to rate well when they are tested for quality/performance but I've yet to see one that I didn't think was ugly. I just don't like the shape of the blade and style of them but I'm sure there good as people above my pay grade buy them.
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I felt this way for a while too. Coincidentally, it was my experience with Ganzo that convinced me to try a Spyderco and I'm glad that I did. I picked up a Dragonfly and it was love at first use. I was lucky enough to have a friend who could loan me a couple of the larger models to try out. I eventually picked up a few of my own.

The Wharncliffe Dragonfly has become an EDC MVP for its size. I also have modified versions of the Rockjumper and Sage 5 in my EDC rotation. None of these knives have the stellar actions that I prefer in flipper or thumb stud knives. The Sage 5 especially feels like it would be better with bearings and a stronger detent. The idea of more expensive knives in FRN/FRCP or pairing those materials with higher end steels seems strange. However, they work and there are times when I find myself wanting to carry them.

Coincidentally, modding Spyderco knives voids the warranty. I don't like how some of the back lock models like the Delica and Rockjumper use what is essentially a flexible plastic part that makes reassembly a real pain. It was worth it though. The ergonomics of my Rockjumper benefited significantly from light scale chamfering and chamfering of the Spydie hole. The Sage 5 actually didn't fit my hand properly until I deleted the bottom of the finger choil. Now it is very comfortable.
 
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HP2114B said:
Disassembly does not void the warranty.
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Thanks for catching this. I edited the original post to reflect it. Spyderco strongly discourages disassembly but it does not necessarily void the warranty. Here is a quote from their warranty page:

"Spyderco’s knives are assembled to exacting tolerances by trained technicians, so we discourage end users from disassembling or adjusting our knives. If a knife has been disassembled and reassembled correctly—so as to maintain its proper mechanical function—this warranty remains in full effect. However, if a knife has been disassembled and reassembled in such a way that, in Spyderco’s sole determination, the proper mechanical function of the knife has been compromised, it is no longer covered by warranty."

Here is the thread on disassembly at Spyderco Forums: https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78105
 
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