An Interview With Sean Perkins!

Chiro75 :

I would also add that a maker's tests do not imply the mode of use for a product.
Click to expand...

Obviously not. They should however define the performance limits of the knife. And I fail to see why I (or anyone else) cannot verify this for myself as long as the tests are not to determine breaking points. As for the testing being destructive, that is the point. They are described as being the opposite. The knives are only cosmetically damaged. To be specific :

repeated full-power chops edge-to-edge against an immobilized knife of equal hardness, yet chipping no deeper than 1/16
Click to expand...

Chipping, of 1/16 depth, is hardly destructive. Nowhere in the description of the testing before or after does Sean say that this grossly damages the knife in question. It appears to me that the sole effect is the chipping. If this is indeed the case why is it is a problem for this to be duplicated and verified by the consumer. Now I am not saying that if you do this and it chips that Sean should remove the chips for you. You were told before hand that this was the expected behavior. What I am saying is that if you do this and you get damage that is significantly different from that it should be covered.

As for the whole "cutting" "used as a knife" argument. Don't describe very high durability limits and obviously no one will question them. The idea of a maker promoting his knives as taking certain stresses and then you not being able to verify this strikes me as very odd.

To be specific I have had recent dealings with Rob Simonich, Mel Sorg, Ed Schott and Phil Wilson. We have discussed (and are continuing to discuss) very specific aspects of knife performance as various details of knife geometry and temper have been worked out.

I have varified any and all testing they have described to me (except on Rob's as I don't have the knife yet) except when they described breaking point tests. For example Ed Schott has done bending testing on 3V to the fracture point. It would be fairly stupid of me to do this on a knife he made and ask for another one. However you can bet that I will flex it about 25 degrees and see if it produces a set because he has said it will not.

-Cliff

 
Well, Cliff, I guess I simply do not understand that mentality, then. Perhaps if I was going into the wilderness with my knife and intending it to be a survival tool, I may puch the limits of what it can do to insure it will serve my purposes. BUT, explain to me why you feel the need to duplicate manufacturer's tests on all your knives? What reasoning would you have to chop a little knife into wood hundreds of times over and over again? ESPECIALLY on a knife that has ALREADY PASSED this specific test? Again, this brings me back to the example with the synthetic engine oil. Achieveing a certain level of performance again does not imply continued use at this level. There is a limit to the stress that can be put on any product. This does not mean that one should match that level and expect the product to run at that level ad infinitum. It means "this is what this product has the ability to do. Here's what I recommend this product be used for..." As far as I see it custom makers are limited financially in their warranty policies. They also have EVERY right to define what the user's limits are, regardless of how they test the product. The fact that someone with great character has already performed certain tests on the very knives I am using tell me that I should have faith in the products. My knives bear dents in their spines where Sean has whacked them on all manner of materials. Those marks tell me that the knife will perform forever at the highest level of use I can possibly reach. Why would I want to challenge that by repeating the tests and effectively reducing the life of that knife? Sure, you can bend a Busse 90 degress and have it bounce back, or whatever the figure may be, but how many times? If a customer told me they spent all weekend flexing my knife in a vice until it broke and they now wanted a replacement, I would tell them to go to hell, plain and simple! Maybe that's a different mentality, but I still think it is fundamentally incorrect to assert that a level of testing has anything to do with a level of recommended use.

------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
Okay, gentlemen, I'm willing to break my self-imposed silence and state that my warranty/testing relationship is analogous to that of car companies. They routinely perform crash tests to prove to themselves (and the government, and the consumers, etc.) how the car stands up in a worst-case scenario. In no instance that I can imagine, however, is the car warranted against damage inflicted in a crash. It is warranted against failure under normal driving conditions. If you want to buy my knife and edge-to-edge cut against another knife, fine. No, I won't fix any chipping that occurs, because it's a stupid thing to do, both tactically and functionally. If you want to strike it against fixed stone, fine; no, I won't fix any damage you inflict because it's a stupid thing to do, and I'm in no way convinced that you're able to strike in the knife's parrying region (grind-line to spine) rather than at the edge. With the rocks against which I test, I have a hard time keeping to that myself, and I know that I know what I'm doing. The same is true of the other tests I describe. In short, the destructive tests I perform are done from a "**** happens" perspective, and they're done to make sure that the knife will most likely work after any chance accidents that occur in use, because this may actually be the one knife with which you end up on a desert island. Bad things happen; should you try to make them happen? Hell, no. I've already done so, and this is how it stood up. Should you trust me? Maybe yes, maybe no. I have a vested interest in the outcome. If you buy one and aren't quite sure, buy a second and beat the crap out of it, to prove it to yourself. This attitude in myself is the one that spawned the tests. Do I consider 1/16" chips a functionally destructive occurrence? No, the blade will still sharpen and cut, but it's permanently altered. Do I consider 100 gashes in the grind line and spine area as functionally destructive? No, the damned thing still works, but it looks like hell. The same goes for the rest of the tests. I use the term "destructive" because the knife is entirely unsalable afterward, and it continues to exist only as a record for my own reassurance, and that of anyone else who wants to stop by and gander.
I do what I do for the sake of proving to myself, as a maker, that the product I'm selling will likely function even after accidents happen, as they will. If someone wants to intentionally make such accidents happen, or to use the knife in a fashion that constitutes an unwise use of the knife, even one that I "claim" to have performed myself, then he has no right to ask anything of me but my forgiveness for killing one of my children in his idiocy. If you don't like me or my knives or my warranty policy, don't buy the knife. That's the great thing about a free market; you can always buy something else.

------------------
Sean Perkins
perkinsknives.com
seanperkins@yahoo.com
 
I have three Sean Perkins knives and love each one! The workmanship is great and they all are very useful as everyday knives. I like my Kerver the most & carry it every day! I see nothing wrong with the warranty at all!
 
Congratulations for the idea!The interview was very interesting, covering much more than magazines usually do, besides the fact that I have been very curious about this maker lately. I can´t wait for the next interview!

Ivan Campos
 
Chiro 75....I now have the Praecisco ll! I like the Kerver best for carrying everyday as it can handle anything...the Praecisco's I like most to have around the house, though you could certaintly carry one daily, I just like the 1/4" Kerver because it is so heavy-duty. The 1/8" Praecisco's are really neat, my brother & girlfriend are wanting one badddd! I told them to buy their own!! I still really like the custom sheath you made for me...it is just like the Kerver, built like a tank!
 
Chiro75 :

BUT, explain to me why you feel the need to duplicate manufacturer's tests on all your knives?
Click to expand...

Because a lot of makers/dealers are claiming performance that does not exist. Durability is just another aspect like cutting ability, edge holding etc.. All of these are important to different extents (depending on the intended purpose). I don't look at any of them differently in regards to evaluation or testing.

When I bought a custom from Phil Wilson awhile ago one of the important aspects was the edge retention of the steel in question - CPM-10V. His description of past and recent testing was what lead to the mutual agreement on blade material choice. That being said I obviously did a fair amount of work personally when I got the blade and I fully expected it to perform at the level he described (it did).

Now of course they question could be asked "Why not just use it as intended and deal with the problems if and when they develop naturally?". Well for a couple of reasons. Primarly because I have no idea that the maker/seller will be around in a year or two so if there is going to be a fail I want it to be now when it can be dealt with. And of course with the deal just fresh there is obviously a much clearer picture of such for both parties. The second reason is that I want to know how the knife performs now as if the performance is high I will be a repeat customer.


If a customer told me they spent all weekend flexing my knife in a vice until it broke and they now wanted a replacement, I would tell them to go to hell, plain and simple
Click to expand...

If a maker wants to do destructive testing then obviously that should not be covered as it is destructive (Ed Schott and Rob S. recenting postings with 3V). The above prying test you describe is destructive as eventually any material will suffer fatigue failure. What Sean has described is not in this class and he quite clearly states this.

Sean :

If you want to buy my knife and edge-to-edge cut against another knife, fine. No, I won't fix any chipping that occurs
Click to expand...

Nor would I expect it unless it is grossly out of line with what you describe the expected result to be. I didn't state this clearly before but when I stated that I would want the warrenty to cover said actions it was to the extend of the result causing damage greater than what was described.


-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 19 July 1999).]
 
Thanks for the informative and interesting interview. Are you an interviewer by trade, or just a desire to learn more about what interests you? I found it very much to the point and full of useful information and inquiring minds like mine want to know the up and up, you did a great job. a pat on the back for you! One question about the pics, please email me at lwn3boyz@hickory.net so I can find out more about your pic techniques.
 
Cliff- thanks for the reply. I think I see what you are getting at. MOstly I think I am a little sensitive when Sean's integrity is questioned as I know he is dripping with it! Sean has treated me very kindly and we have developed a sort of friendship in the last few months for a variety of reasons, and I guess I took it personally on some level that his products were being questioned.

Big D1- I am not an interviewer by trade. I have been bitten by the knife bug big time in th last year or so. I have always loved knives, even as a little kid, but now it is bordering on obssession! By "trade" I am a student earning my doctorate in <a href = "http://www.palmer.edu"> chiropractic health care</a> and I also work part time mainly as a mechanic in a bicycle shop. I also am my dogs' daddy, which is harder work than it sounds! :-) I'll email you, but also post here on my photographic technique:
The sheath pictures are mostly direct scans, done on a relatively low-end Paperport scanner. They were done at 100dpi, as were all the pictures on my website. I darkened the room to decrease ambient lighting from affecting the scans, which I think makes a big difference. The actual photos are taken on a fully manual Pentax K1000 35mm SLR camera (a cheapo by most people's standards) which I have had for almost ten years now. I used Fuji 200 speed film and a skylight filter (basically a UV filter). For closeups I use a simple set of diopters, which are like filters in that they screw into the front of the lens. This allows for the camera to be setup close to the subject. The downfall to diopters are that you lose a lot of depth and light, so a tripod is almost always required since shutter speeds are slow. Diopters are about $20, though, while a lens made for close-ups is easily ten times that, if you're lucky!

------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
Chiro75 :

I think I am a little sensitive when Sean's integrity is questioned
Click to expand...

That was never intended. I was just confused at the conflict between the two issues and wanted clarification from Sean if possible and a viewpoint from the forum members. It is actually the opposite of reflecting a low opinion of his work as if I didn't think the knives were worth buying what would I care about his guarantee?

-Cliff
 
I think Sean Perkins' comments on his warranty are very reasonable - as is his warrenty.

I don't understand how anybody can expect a knifemaker to warrenty a knife for life. Guns aren't warrentied for life, neither are cars or most other pieces of expendable equipment one buys. Knives wear out if they are used and in proportion to the amount and nature of the use. Guns wear out too. So do tools. A large company can build into a "lifetime" replacement policy into the price. But a knifemaker can't do that if he wants to sell knives.

One person making knives can SAY they'll warrenty the knife for forever, but that's a long time and who knows if you can even find them in 15 years? Will they even be able to honor such a promise?

Mr. Perkins' warranty is both reasonable and realistic and he sounds like the type of person who would honor it too. In the end that's what realy counts.

------------------
www.wilkins-knives.com


 
I think Mr. Wilkins' question wasn't so much "how you can do it" but more "how realistic is it"? I could warranty my sheaths for life, but to be quite honest I probably won't be doing them a few years down the road, so how realistic would a lifetime warranty be for me? A customer came in pissed off at the bike shop I wrench at and wanted his Scott carbon fiber handlebars, which carry a no-questions-asked lifetime warranty to be warrantied because he broke them. I had to break it to him that, while Scott did give him that warranty, they unfortunately couldn't fulfill it due to the fact that the company is no longer in business! Very few custom knifemakers make knives their entire lives.

------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
Chiro75, that is a good point and I wonder how the custom makers who don't set time limits would handle such cases. I would assume its similar to back-logged orders.

-Cliff
 
My $0.02 as a knife-knewbie.

Claims about the performance of a product made in conjunction with the sales information can be interpreted as advertisement by dumb and dumber people like myself.

Lacking a disclaimer of any sort, and using words like "each and every", the claim falls short of being a guarantee, but would probably be more in line with issues of truth in advertising.

No one wishes to impugn the character of the maker, but a desire to verify and validate claims is probably second only to our desire to make them.

In publicizing the claims, the maker is probably walking a fine line between the desire for candid disclosure of test results and methods, and the advertising of results to sell the customer on the perfomance of the product.

I'm all for disclosure, but I'm also a big fan of verification.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top