An issue with Spyderco CPMS30V.

[:IV:]

Picked up their base-model Native the other day from a friend who's a dealer. It's a really nice knife, I love the ergonomics. I've had the issue with this knife and my Sage 1 of the edge folding over and blunting whenever it hits... well, any metal. That's no matter how shitty crappy the metal is.

This doesn't really qualify as abuse but it was used to pry a nail out of my wall, that wasn't in a stud. The edge hit the nail a bit but it had no real tension on the tip, when I checked the knife a bit later, the metal had folded over in a few places.

I further tested this by taking an aluminum tin that I owned and lightly blunting the knife's edge on it. Sure enough, the edge folded and blunted a bit.

I'd say this was aircraft-grade aluminum, not really hard but... durable I suppose.

So I take it whenever my $100 Sage 1 and $50 Native super-steel knives hits any type of metal, this mess will happen and I'll have to completely refine the edge again... or is there a deeper issue?

 

[Taonari]

Why would the edge of your knife ever deliberately come in contact with any kind of metal? And why were you prying a nail with a knife?

 

[jill jackson]

It's not just Spyderco's S30V will chip/fold easy on metal, I had a Benchmade Rukus that I had on a display shelf blade open, chip when I went to remove it and the edge barely touched a metal fishing spoon lure, that was hanging freely on the outside the shelf. It couldn't have been a lot of force, when the edge touched it as the lure was just hanging there by it's hook and could move freely.

 

[:IV:]

Is this some kind of joke?

Sorry, no it isn't and I wish my camera was half decent enough to pick up the edge on my Native and I'd show you.

I read one article about someone having this issue with a Manix 2, stating that the powdered metals possibly cause enough brittleness to chip small enough on softer metals than the steel itself because of the structure of the steel. If this is the case, I'll start carrying a VG-10 blade with me and shelve my S30V knives for the time being.

And for the record, this also happened to a Leek I own. That's not really related to S30V but it still surprised me that the higher-end Sandvik steel managed to fold over cutting twine inside a fake flower.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

I use my knives for work all the time. I have three main knives with different steels - O1, CM154, and M4.

The edges of these knives have all contacted other metals at some point or other. All three have chipped blades. All three blades are still totally useful for cutting purposes.

If you use a knife and the edge contacts metal, there will be consequences. You can either confine your cutting to non-metal, soft substances, or, if you allow the blade to contact metal, live with some edge damage.

Andy

 

[:IV:]

I use my knives for work all the time. I have three main knives with different steels - O1, CM154, and M4.

The edges of these knives have all contacted other metals at some point or other. All three have chipped blades. All three blades are still totally useful for cutting purposes.

If you use a knife and the edge contacts metal, there will be consequences. You can either confine your cutting to non-metal, soft substances, or, if you allow the blade to contact metal, live with some edge damage.

Andy

I'm just having a hard time digesting the fact that my $100 Sage 1 with the super-steel CPMS30V is heaving at the ability to cut through any type of aluminum without completely borking the blade to bits.

 

[:IV:]

Why would the edge of your knife ever deliberately come in contact with any kind of metal? And why were you prying a nail with a knife?

...*sigh*

Why wouldn't it? Metal exists and mistakes happen, also the nail wasn't in a stud and wasn't a threat to my knife's tip. I just couldn't grab it and needed enough of the head to get it out with so I used my knife to pull it out a bit.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

I'm just having a hard time digesting the fact that my $100 Sage 1 with the super-steel CPMS30V is heaving at the ability to cut through any type of aluminum without completely borking the blade to bits.

Really? Borked to bits, huh? Perhaps you are exaggerating, just a titch?

Seriously, I've pried staples out of plywood, run the edges full tilt into nails, cut sheet metal, cut aluminum, cut wire, dropped them, etc. Yes, there is some damage. The chipping is totally visible to the naked eye.

After routine sharpening all will still slice paper, shave hair, and perform any other normal cutting task without problem. Is your knife a tool, or a piece of jewelry?

Andy

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Really? Borked to bits, huh? Perhaps you are exaggerating, just a titch?

Seriously, I've pried staples out of plywood, run the edges full tilt into nails, cut sheet metal, cut aluminum, cut wire, dropped them, etc. Yes, there is some damage. The chipping is totally visible to the naked eye.

After routine sharpening all will still slice paper, shave hair, and perform any other normal cutting task without problem. Is your knife a tool, or a piece of jewelry?

Andy

Sorry, that came across as kind of snide, I don't mean to sound that way. I understand how you feel. Keep using the knife and consider the nicks and dings as a consequence of normal use. That's what I do.

Andy

 

[jill jackson]

You have to realize, the edge may be a lot harder than the metal you contact, but it's also very thin.

 

[:IV:]

Really? Borked to bits, huh? Perhaps you are exaggerating, just a titch?

Seriously, I've pried staples out of plywood, run the edges full tilt into nails, cut sheet metal, cut aluminum, cut wire, dropped them, etc. Yes, there is some damage. The chipping is totally visible to the naked eye.

After routine sharpening all will still slice paper, shave hair, and perform any other normal cutting task without problem. Is your knife a tool, or a piece of jewelry?

Andy

Then to you sir, I say congratulations.
I guess I need a bit more of a robust sharpening kit if this is to continue happening.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Then to you sir, I say congratulations.
I guess I need a bit more of a robust sharpening kit if this is to continue happening.

Yessir. I suggest some of the diamond sharpening systems that are out there, they do a good job of bringing a damaged edge back to usable condition.

Andy

 

[:IV:]

Yessir. I suggest some of the diamond sharpening systems that are out there, they do a good job of bringing a damaged edge back to usable condition.

Andy

Looks like my Buddy sells the Lansky kits. I'll pick one up this weekend. Won't fix the Sage (FFG), unless I use them like whetstones then refine the edge on my Smith's kit, but I can sure fix the Native.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Looks like my Buddy sells the Lansky kits. I'll pick one up this weekend. Won't fix the Sage (FFG), unless I use them like whetstones then refine the edge on my Smith's kit, but I can sure fix the Native.

I have several sharpeners which are for free hand sharpening, very good for any kind of blade geometry. One is triangular and has a coarse surface, a fine surface, and a ceramic surface. This sharpener is good for sharpening all of my smaller knives (folders).

Looks like this -

Andy

 

[stoffi]

Stop making contact with your edge onto metal (unless sharpening). Problem solved.

 

[unit]

You have to realize, the edge may be a lot harder than the metal you contact, but it's also very thin.

This is VERY true. You might also take a look at your angles...perhaps one knife is ground to a slightly lower angle than the other? S30V is enjoyed by many as a very good choice for blade steel. Spyderco has been working with it long enough that their methods are quite good (so the heat treat is likely ideal...but mistakes CAN happen). My findings with S30V show that there is a pretty well defined threshold for edge angles and my use...if I grind a shallower angle than this threshold, the edge will look pretty haggard in short order. Perhaps you can use this situation to better understand what grind angle is best for you?

 

[arty]

VG10 is an excellent steel, but I had the edge on a Rookie roll when I was shaving a label off a box. I wasn't cutting normally, but had the blade at a low angle and I was essentially using the blade like a chisel edge.
I have also had the edge of a carpenter's chisel roll when I chopped out some molding off an exterior wall and had to chop into concrete. Concrete is very rough on steel. I didn't use my paring chisels for this, and it was an old Stanley butt chisel with a metal cap.
I normally avoid any contact with metal with my knife edges. I don't pry staples or lift nail heads. I use softer steel for these tasks. I might do this with a Swiss Army Knife, but not my Spydercos. They are for cutting softer stuff. The edge shouldn't roll on rope or cardboard, assuming you don't hit staples. If I need to cut through bone in a chicken or cut the shell on a lobster, I'd reach for a blade with something like 1095 carbon steel, not my other knives - certainly not 440C or VG10.

 

[mjolnir74]

Sounds like you need a 40 degree inclusive or greater edge bevel. I think most Spyderco's come with around 30 degree inclusive edge bevel's. It will be more durable.

 

[JNewell]

Using your knife on metal *does* qualify as abuse. It's amazing your blade didn't suffer a lot more damage. Your expectations are way out of line.

Picked up their base-model Native the other day from a friend who's a dealer. It's a really nice knife, I love the ergonomics. I've had the issue with this knife and my Sage 1 of the edge folding over and blunting whenever it hits... well, any metal. That's no matter how shitty the metal is.

This doesn't really qualify as abuse but it was used to pry a nail out of my wall, that wasn't in a stud. The edge hit the nail a bit but it had no real tension on the tip, when I checked the knife a bit later, the metal had folded over in a few places.

I further tested this by taking an aluminum tin that I owned and lightly blunting the knife's edge on it. Sure enough, the edge folded and blunted a bit.

I'd say this was aircraft-grade aluminum, not really hard but... durable I suppose.

So I take it whenever my $100 Sage 1 and $50 Native super-steel knives hits any type of metal, this mess will happen and I'll have to completely refine the edge again... or is there a deeper issue?

 

[RevDevil]

The only "deep issue" here is realistic expectations of what a knife can or should do.v