An issue with Spyderco CPMS30V.

:IV: said:
...*sigh*

Why wouldn't it? Metal exists and mistakes happen, also the nail wasn't in a stud and wasn't a threat to my knife's tip. I just couldn't grab it and needed enough of the head to get it out with so I used my knife to pull it out a bit.
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Okay, I follow you. When I read your original post it translated into my head as "I don't like S30V because the edge deforms when it comes into contact with metal and I can't pry nails with it." Reading your other posts and your explanation I understand now. I apologize for my reaction. Mistakes do happen from time to time when cutting. I was cutting a ribbon for someone the other day that was on a package and it turns out the ribbon had some tough metal wire running throughout it. It put a ding in the edge of my blade and caused an immediate sad face. :(
 
Some good responses have already been made. I agree with the suggestions about sort of resetting one's practices and expectations about how a knife is used. You basically have two choices, either one is fine: (1) Don't cut or pry on anything metallic at all, or (2) If you are going to sometimes cut/pry on metals, accept the fact that it'll be hard on your blade and will require some blade maintenance. That's pretty much it, I don't see another option here.

Oh wait, yes there is another option: get other tools better suited to the job. An example of such a tool would be one of these little "pry bars" that you can get from Countycomm.com, or other places, that enable you to do prying, scraping types of tasks and spare your knife. If you really want to cut metal, better to get a set of metal snips.
 
Many times on a new knife, the factory edge needs to be sharpened down a hair to get to good steel. I have seen this with many knives over the years.
 
:IV: said:
I'm just having a hard time digesting the fact that my $100 Sage 1 with the super-steel CPMS30V is heaving at the ability to cut through any type of aluminum without completely borking the blade to bits.
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I'm having a hard time digesting the fact that you use the edge of your folder to pry nails out of walls. Perhaps you would be interested in an inexpensive hammer - many come equipped with claws for the extraction of nails.

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Beckerhead #42
 
This is consistent with my experience also. In my memory and experience, I've encountered it more with Benchmade knives than Spyderco, but it often works out this way. My hunch is that the process of grinding the secondary bevel changes the HT of the steel at its thinnest section. A few rounds of sharpening has always taken care of the problem. If it doesn't, the blade may be defective, but whether it's accidental or intentional, contacting iron or steel with a sharpened edge is going to ruin the edge.


Reeek said:
Many times on a new knife, the factory edge needs to be sharpened down a hair to get to good steel. I have seen this with many knives over the years.
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You have to understand that rolling is MUCH preferable to chipping. Given that Spyderco's S30V is typically around Rc 60-61, I'd say the steel is doing the job it's supposed to. If you want a more durable edge, put a 20-25 degree per side microbevel on it. You'll still deform the edge, but it won't be as bad or as often. I think even the guy who hammered a ZT 0301 through a metal bolt saw some serious edge damage to it.

It may sound shocking, but knife steel will roll on materials you never expected it to. Plastic zip-ties(not the thick kind) has been the main culprit for me, as I found it rolled my custom in M390 at Rc 62 with a day's cutting, which would only amount to about 10-15 really thin ties. But given that it's Rc 62 and still rolled rather than chipped, I don't feel all that disappointed.

The thing is that a knife blade is thin by necessity, and any angle more than 30 degrees per side will have some serious issues actually cutting anything, so it would normally be even thinner at the very edge. Can't cut with a right angle blade;). Not without a few tons of force behind it anyways. And to my knowledge, the only plain edge blade used to consistently cut metal without evident damage is a near 90 degree beveled blade with several tons of force put on the blade:D.
 
:IV: said:
I'm just having a hard time digesting the fact that my $100 Sage 1 with the super-steel CPMS30V is heaving at the ability to cut through any type of aluminum without completely borking the blade to bits.
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Please stop saying CPMS30V is a super steel.
 
I'll second the suggestion to get one of those little pry bars, you can get them in many forms, and price ranges, from about $5 on up to getting a custom made. Use them for prying, scraping, digging, etc., and save the knife for cutting.

I have been using one since I started buying better knives, and the edges of my knives last much longer as a result.


Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G using Tapatalk
 
78LilRed said:
Please stop saying CPMS30V is a super steel.
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Of all the things in this thread to take issue with, you picked this?

I think many would make the claim that S30V is a super steel in that it is superior to many others in many categories (thus the high prevalence of this steel in the cutlery world). Opinions may vary on super-iority of S30V, but there are other issues in this thread that are far less debatable.
 
Everyone covered the other issues quite well.
shrugjp6.gif


For the record my post wasn't talking down s30v, I enjoy it daily along with d2. Also use m390 on a daily basis.
 
just change the angle of the edge. even if my endure was s30v, i wouldn't expect it to fare well cutting metal.
 
:IV: said:
Sorry, no it isn't and I wish my camera was half decent enough to pick up the edge on my Native and I'd show you.

I read one article about someone having this issue with a Manix 2, stating that the powdered metals possibly cause enough brittleness to chip small enough on softer metals than the steel itself because of the structure of the steel. If this is the case, I'll start carrying a VG-10 blade with me and shelve my S30V knives for the time being.

And for the record, this also happened to a Leek I own. That's not really related to S30V but it still surprised me that the higher-end Sandvik steel managed to fold over cutting twine inside a fake flower.
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What Manix 2 is it, because the normal manix 2 uses 154CM, a NON POWDERED steel. Could you provide a link?

Reason is powdered steels distribution of carbides are much more even then conventional methods of producing alloys.
 
I don't think everyone needs to jump on the guy just cause he asked a question. Even if his expectations are out of line, aren't we supposed to educate and not belittle someone.

And everyone thinks that using a knife to pull a nail out of a hole in sheet rock so that it can be gripped and pulled out is abuse and warrants edge damage? I have pulled a lot of nails from sheet rock and they may take a few pounds of force to pull out at most. Probably closer to a few ounces.

And I don't know what kind of aluminum you cut but it probably depends on thickness. I have cut a ton of aluminum cans with no visible damage. Many people use knives to open steel cans with no damage. I wouldn't call S30V a super steel but it is a good user steel for the most part, though not my favorite. I would say there are 3 possible things unless you are down playing your experience. One is you have a wire edge that folds over easily. Normally contact with anything hard will roll the edge and cause a visible deformation. A wire edge will dull immediately. Next, as mentioned before, the edge could be really thin and without a lot of metal to support the edge it is fairly prone to damage. Maybe try putting a micro bevel at a more obtuse angle. Last would be a bad heat treat and the least likely. I think it very rarely happens, but it is possible.
 
mjolnir74 said:
Sounds like you need a 40 degree inclusive or greater edge bevel. I think most Spyderco's come with around 30 degree inclusive edge bevel's. It will be more durable.
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Bingo.
Spyderco sets their edge geometry thin so as to excel at slicing. When you do that you give up some toughness. You can change the edge angle to something more oblique to get more toughness, though you will give up some of the slicing ability.
 
GingivitisKahn said:
I'm having a hard time digesting the fact that you use the edge of your folder to pry nails out of walls. Perhaps you would be interested in an inexpensive hammer - many come equipped with claws for the extraction of nails.
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JNewell said:
Using your knife on metal *does* qualify as abuse. It's amazing your blade didn't suffer a lot more damage. :eek: Your expectations are way out of line.
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Let me put this as plain and simple as I can possibly make it for those of you in the peanut gallery.

The nail wasn't in a stud.

I was more moving it than prying it. I'd never use my knife to pry out a nail that was properly driven into wood. Also, my question was answered and the problem remedied a page back. I have no need for this thread anymore unless you guys want to tell me more about what I don't know about my knife steel that hasn't already been spoken about, or to bash me more for moving a nail out of drywall with a native (which is about as harmful as dropping a kitchen fork on the blade by accident).
 
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