An open and honest conversation about product photography in the custom knife world.

Just as when one purchases any item, the end use must be considered.

Trent's photo would be the ticket for a high dollar purchase.
But as we see, it is a problem on the forum.

Murray's (Coop's etc) photos work well in the forum format.

The many inset, multiple images in one frame format lends itself to the forum format as well.
Many views and a feeling for the knife at a glance.
No scrolling thru a vomit of photos...
Less bandwidth and faster loading as well.

One could have an "artsy" knife photo, a detailed "for sale" photo, a "hey look at all the cool parts of my knife" photo or a bad knife photo.
The first three are fine with me :)
 
One could have an "artsy" knife photo, a detailed "for sale" photo, a "hey look at all the cool parts of my knife" photo or a bad knife photo.
The first three are fine with me :)
Hey, I can provide all four, including an ugly knife. Wait, whut....?! ;)

Seriously, I am pleased to see all my supporters use my name as a 'standard-bearer'. Truth is, I am only ONE of many great photographers out here, but I tend to be one of the most vocal.

My very favorite visual image is usually a two-view montage, if I can do it. Because of the nature of the sizes and my often-used style of enlarge and bleeding out the side, it can leave a void in the third space. To me, I find it imbalanced. I know the rule of thirds, but sometimes it just doesn't feel 'right'. So I will create another inset which completes the package.

Kent, yes, it is often a matter of compacting important visual information to be had in a minimal space and with clarity.

A man was once asked to provide a motivating speech for an organization:

How much for a 20 minute speech?

He would charge $500.

Wow. That's a bit higher than we thought. How much for the same effective context, but only five minutes?

He would charge $1000. :p :thumbup:

Same thing, kinda.

I would like to hear other photographers opinions.

Coop
 
My very favorite visual image is usually a two-view montage, if I
can do it. Because of the nature of the sizes and my often-used
style of enlarge and bleeding out the side, it can leave a void in
the third space. To me, I find it imbalanced. I know the rule of
thirds
, but sometimes it just doesn't feel 'right'. So I will create
another inset which completes the package.

I would like to hear other photographers opinions.

Coop

Don't feel bad about it Coop, there is a rule that says
that the Rule of Thirds does not apply to everything..... :)

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
Since it was used as example:
03f95e76.jpg


i would bet that eliminating one of the (3) full images would be a better option in this photo. At a glance it is unclear if one knife, or a matching set.
 
Great thread LA. Thanks to DDD, Murray and Coop for chimming in for photogs. I have taken pics myself and had the pros do it. No question. They make my work look better! There have been times that I have taken a knife to one of then and asked for a montage and they told me NO. THEY felt they could properly show the knife and do it justice in a single photo. How cool is that...artistic license, honor and discretion. There name same size as mine. Of course. When I have spoken with them and seen their equipment, they have spent at least as much time and money learning theur craft as I have. (truth be known, they are much better at their craft and their names should be larger!) Now about the multiple montage style images. Murray brings a very good point about showing all details in a knife that is forsale. In some of the ads offered for comparison, the items shown, the Rolex for example, can be seen and examined personally by visiting one of many high en jewlelry stores. A custom knife for sale is often a unique piece and the ad photos extremely valuable.
Kevin
 
There are no rules except anarchy, and anarchy rules! I'm serious. We're all here in the custom knife world doing our thing our own way. I started shooting my own knives for fun, then I suddenly became an antique Scagel knife collector and everything changed. My stuff needed to be photographed for a magazine article and I'd made a promise to the previous owner that I'd share the find with the world, take the set of knives around to shows etc. I was familiar with the work of Eric Eggly and Terrill Hoffman (Coop hadn't broken out yet). They sort of overtook Jim Weyer (another standard raiser, in his time), whose creative bent was perfect for the emerging art knife phenom back in the day.

Naturally, as I focused on trying to take a decent knife picture, I was greatly influenced by the aforementioned as well as a few others like Hiro Soga whose photos in the Japanese magazine KNIFE really opened my eyes. Found a knife photography forum where Coop had been steadily working, every day, on knife photography for a good two years. It was a stroke of luck for me that I could just jump in his wake. We learned a lot together and developed a friendship that I value. I entered 27 photo contests on that forum before winning my first one, and it was actually a tie! Still I plowed on.

Since I didn't really know what I was doing technically, I relied on my fertile imagination and and BS skills. Every now and then I'd get something to work out but, compared to now, it was pathetic. Experimentation has always been vital to me so that's the way I learn now. My photographs in two years won't look anything like what I'm doing today. And more photographers will slog up to the top for a while just like in the past.

Aside from all that, knife photography at the professional level today is a very difficult skill to master. It's taken me seven years and a lot of help from my photographer friends. Rather than address specifics, here's what I've learned in those years that turned out to be important for my growth.

First, people like different things and that's why somewhere between 8 and 12 different photographers are able to routinely get published in the knife world. (That, by the way, is what separates the pros fro the rest. Pro images are preferred by editors who look at hundreds of crappy knife shots sent in all the time.) So, because people will always like different styles and ways of doing things, I resist judging and actually enjoy looking at the different ways other photographers do things. I appreciate them. It is not easy to take a decent knife photo!

Second, it helps to be objective. I learned by entering photo contests until I finally got it. There's no better way. Getting objective is what helped me advance through those ranks. I use a 5 step process to evaluate and grade my own images and those of my colleagues and others. I picked it up from Coop along the way and tweaked it. I won't get into it here but there are the five categories that get formally rated: Composition, Clarity, Color, Lighting and Creativity. What one measures, improves. :thumbup:

And last, my most challenging lesson, begin with the end in mind. These days, every knife image I make will have (in my mind) some specific end use. Every use requires a different approach. I never shoot or process the same way twice. I actually don't think I'm capable of doing anything the same way twice. So, what I do is make a custom photograph of a custom knife. Get it?

It's a cool second career with fabulous tax deductions, I'll say that. However, you're only as good as your most recent image. I just finished up this one today. It's a slick 'show everything' composite tuned for the web - that was its end use.

You wouldn't necessarily know it by looking, but this image's aspect is 11X17. The full resolution file I prepared for print could be easily used as a double page spread in BLADE or some other publication. Might as well make it easy for editors and layout folks to choose my image for that special feature article that starts with a title and text overlay on a big beautiful photo across two pages. I even made sure the vertical midline wouldn't cut through a critical part of the composition and that I left appropriate spaces for text. Enough of that. Here's the image du jour - think butterscotch. ;)

orig.jpg
 
Last edited:
for those that would like to see this image without one of the views of the knife here it is

orig.jpg


I have not decided if I will replace the other image or use this one instead in the future. The threads with the other image would get rather messed up.
 
Photos so large you have scroll side to side to see and able to read the rest of the posts
on a page are just no good :D
 
Thanks to all. Especially to DDD, Murray, and Buddy for their comments. Well said, all.

Buddy, let me be the first to say that photo is wonderfully three-dimensional. I often hear the phrase "I feel like I could reach into the monitor and grab it!" Well, this one has that effect, plus it's SO clear!

Don's recognizing the limitations of a large photo is real, on the forums--and on a website. If I had my druthers, I would have a thumb, a medium sized image, and for those truly interested, a third larger image (around 1000-1200 wide?) to look at closely.

Many sites offer a variant of this effective display format.

Coop
 
Sounds like most have made a good argument. It's either art or it's documentary. It's up to the photographer which style he wants to use. As to the lasting quality of the image... well that is basically up to the people who look at the stuff. They are the judges and will determine the success of an image. But let the photographer (artist) do his/her thing and let them take credit.

As to using props... If you are the knife maker as well as the photographer.. well sometimes you forget to buy or gather new backgrounds. Props help to recycle over-used and favorite backgrounds that are sitting around the shop. :-)
 
Buddy, that butterscotch image is something else!

I really like the silhouettes instead of oval insets.
Excellent 'selection' making/silhouette job.
If I may ask, what method did you use?
I'm a pen tool guy myself :D
 
I'm a pen tool guy myself :D
Me too - Photoshop CS5 is what I'm using and that adobe pen tool has always been the way to go for selection accuracy, ease of adjusting points on the fly and for the most important thing - user interface, which is simple and flawless. Follow that up with the refine edge tool and if you've been careful with the pen tool the result is perfection the first time through. It helps take the inherent struggle out of a complex and precise selection.
 
I quick-read the thread and probably did not get everything. Here is how I do it sometimes, can be a nice way to show details and still keep it a bit "arty".
My camera equipment are not that good so the photos are not "by the book" quality wise, but I´m usually try to find the "atmospheres" I like by doing it this way.
And BTW, no backgrounds here, just photoshop;) (using the CS4)

img_43_8MQ903.jpg

img_57_K1I8IS.jpg
 
I would have a thumb, a medium sized image, and for those truly interested, a third larger image (around 1000-1200 wide?)[/B] to look at closely.

Many sites offer a variant of this effective display format.

Coop
I think that is the best method
When you get a knife in from a client
Take regular, non artsy, BIG pics
In addition to the artsy pics
Give both to your client when you are doing soing your Sharp By Coop magic
Then he can , if he chooses, put both the artsy pics AND the raw big pics his website or auction listing

Why stop at 1000 or 2000 wide?

When I do my EBAY ads I put a medium size pic (500 X 400ish) and make the link clickable===>


For those truly interested===>
They can click on the pic and select VIEW ALL SIZES...then click ORIGINAL SIZE
I think it is very helpful to add the option to be able to view the large pics
I'd rather have the option then sitting back and scratching my head wondering if the small pic is hiding something....
******************************
Photos so large you have scroll side to side to see and able to read the rest of the posts
on a page are just no good :D
Would it bother you to have to scroll if it helps decide whether or not you want to buy an expensive custom knife?
Would that be a deal breaker?
Wouldn't you rather have the option of seeing a really big pic than not?
At the very least you should have a one click option to "click here to see the original picture at full size size"
Like Fototime===>
http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/detailfs?userid={05174CD2-819E-4471-AC84-B20E05FAEA72}&ndx=0&slideshow=0&AlbumId={2B862563-72E0-42CB-978A-39E1B6CB368C}&GroupId=&screenheight=1200

If I'm buying a knife online for 1,900 bucks===>
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/brendpf.htm
I click on the pics
And it takes me to this===>
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/brend16.htm
That does me no good
You guys are always talking about fit and finish
Wouldn't it be nice to SEE if there is a GAP between the handle and the bolster (or pommel)?
I don't think it will HURT sales or prices by having access to the big pics
Heck..throw in some macro lens pics while you are at it:)

If I want bigger pics I guess I could email Les and ask him to email them to me
It seems much easier to have them right there on the web site..IMHO

I guess the question comes down to what % of potential knife buyers is truly interested in big, detailed, non-Photoshopped pics
You guys tell me
Is having clear, big pics important to you when making a online custom knife purchasing decision?
 
Me too - Photoshop CS5 is what I'm using and that adobe pen tool has always been the way to go for selection accuracy, ease of adjusting points on the fly and for the most important thing - user interface, which is simple and flawless. Follow that up with the refine edge tool and if you've been careful with the pen tool the result is perfection the first time through. It helps take the inherent struggle out of a complex and precise selection.

CS5 I'm jealous.
Supposed to get 5 soon at work.
Way behind with 3 at home...

Mr. Andersson, I really like the ghosted images.
Shows off more of the knife without overpowering.

Initially I thought this thread was going to be a train wreck.
Turns out I was wrong... there is a bunch of good stuff here.
 
Would it bother you to have to scroll if it helps decide whether or not you want to buy an expensive custom knife?
Would that be a deal breaker?
Wouldn't you rather have the option of seeing a really big pic than not?

My comment was pretty much for photos posted on the forums. I like to see the whole knife in one view. Clickable, larger photos are good. But I really don't like to have to scroll side to side to read all the posts that come after an over-sized photo. Some of us have bandwidth limitation also ;)

I'm just really glad we have many, really good photos of custom knives out there. :thumbup:
 
Hi Trent,

Thanks for your views. I can't agree with all of them, though. :)

Comment: at some point oversize enlargement does not educate as much as it detracts from a knife. Your Buck example is clearly why no one needs to see this much detail. There are flaws in finish that are inescapable. Showing a full size shot of a knife at 1600 pixels wide or long may be showing that knife at 600% it's true size.

I often have heard of makers cringing when a collector pulls out a loupe to inspect closely.

From a buyers's perspective, yes, you want as much information as you can. From a seller's viewpoint, they have to be reluctant to provide shots that are hard-pressed to enhance. Nor do my portfolio clients want me to provide them with an indemnifying image. That ain't right! ;)

Buddy and ebbtide: I really would have to watch you use that dang pen tool. For me, there is a collossal learning curve to do what the polygon lasso does so simply. I should Youtube a vid to see. I believe you, but to me, it's like riding a unicycle when my bicycle is right in the garage.... :D lol!

Coop
 
This thread inspired me to take some knife pics today, theme "Glowin like the metal on the edge of a knife" ... Meatloaf

rjmartin.jpg


rjmartin1.jpg


rjmartin2.jpg


My opinion ... I prefer natural light. Positioned the above knife so the natural light emphasized the knife edge but did not blow out the rest of the blade. Used Photoshop CS5 to convert from RAW, resize, bevel edges, added a drop shadow to the border and text with the angle the same as the natural light. A shadow box is great for consistent results but it's not my style.

If the photographer doesn't add some type of copyright to pics posted on the net, unscrupulous folks will steal them ... plus you get advertising on every one of your pictures. While it is harder to photoshop out your copyright on a busy background, I prefer minimilist backgrounds for product shots. Textured backgrounds make the file size larger which requires more bandwidth. Some try to get around that by overcompressing their .jpg files which results in visable compression artifacts that significantly detract from the image. Look close and you can find examples in this thread.

For web photos I prefer landscape orientation around 1000 pixels wide.

Too much Photoshop, IE boosting saturation, contrast, and oversharpening, results in the expensive knife you receive not looking look like the photo you bought it from. Has happened to me more than once.

Ken Lunde (user name Lunde) does superior technical pics of guns and knives. Check his website, http://lundestudio.com

I prefer the challenge of taking motosport or people photos, examples on my website if interested.
 
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