An open letter to CRKT

Jim March

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
3,022
Guys, let me start by saying I like your company. I know there's a need for good, defense-capable folders for people not yet flush with money but with the good sense not to buy mainland Chinese knock-offs or Pakistani "knife like objects".

I'm here to ask you to abandon the linerlock, and suggest an alternative.

Why ditch the linerlock?

Basically, they can fail in three different ways:

1) Impact, often to the spine, can jar the release loose.

2) Torque can cause the lock to slip.

3) The user's own finger flesh can trip the lock release. Operating under an "adrenalin dump" the user can "white knuckle" the blade, causing the lock to release. Per one source here on BF, later editions of the KFF had the release tab shaved deeper into the grip body, making such an accident less likely however gloves, or someone with particularly large fingers, might still cause such a release.

Why the LAWKS isn't a total solution.

In a sudden violent encounter, fine motor control suffers. Police across America have been shifting to DA semi-auto handguns that don't need any external switch other than the trigger to operate. They are "grab and go". The Glock is the best-known example but other companies such as Beretta and S&W duplicate that basic operating drill.

When cops do carry guns with safety switches such as the Colt 1911 family, a common modification is to remove the 1/2" by 3/16" safety switch and put in an "extended" switch up to an inch long.

Yet to fully deploy the KFF or similar pieces, the user is expected to trip a lever that measures 1/8th of an inch across.

I'm unimpressed. I have many friends on BF; some ask me questions about defensive firearms. I would never advise them to carry a gun such as a Davis or Lorcin that have a 1/8th of an inch across safety...and I'm loath to advise the carry of a knife similarly equipped.

So what's the answer?

An old lock design whose patent period has long since run out and is the direct ancestor of the William & Henry Axis lock: the Bolt Action, originally by Blackie Collins.

It could easily be adapted to something similar to the current KFF; using your current CNC manufacturing it would be inexpensive to produce and royalty-free.

If you can get the REKAT Rolling Lock at a decent price, that's another possibility of course...but I'd be willing to bet the Bolt could be done at the same price-point you're currently doing the KFF at.

Gerber still does some Bolt-lock knives to this day, the weird "finger-ring-folder" Chameleons:

http://www.gerberblades.com/gerberlegendaryblades.html?06435

The lock release on a bolt isn't ambi; it works much like the operating drill on a REKAT Roller. The REKAT lock is probably a bit stronger but the Bolt has a good history in use since the Parabellum, the first truly modern folder in my opinion and still a fine piece. I've seen a Para that went through 10+ years of daily carry and hard snapopens and was still rock solid.

In short, I'm asking you to provide a solid, reliable, daily-carry defensive folder that any 18-yr-old can afford. I believe that self defense is a basic human right and until we can truly fix the gun control disaster in this country, there's a huge market for such a critter.

Thank you for listening,

Jim March
Plankholder moderator, Community and Politics forums
Webmaster, Equal Rights for CCW Home Page
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
Lead Plaintiff, March vs. Rupf et al, Federal District court, NorCal (regarding abuse of the Carry Concealed Weapons statutes in Calif.)
 
I`d say you`re right on the money on this Jim.Recent unpleasant experiences with liner locks,one on an entry level knife and another on a more upscale piece has caused me to rethink my defensive knife choices from folders to fixed blades.While fixed blades lack the convience of a folder in your pocket they offer a higher level of safety to the user.
 
I wholeheartedly agree. And while they are at at offering a limited run in better materials for some of us wouldn't be a bad idea either.

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Dennis Bible

....Almost here, The Leading Edge....
www.theleadingedgeonline.com
 
Jim, why not address this to the entire knife manufacturing community ? CRKT is certainly not the only maker using liners. Benchmade, Spyderco, etc. have all used and continue to use it. My Spyderco's are lockbacks, but my CRKT's are liners and they are my favorite knives.

I am in agreement on the bolt-action. I have a Meyerco Zytel-handled bolt-action folder, and upon examination, I can't figure out how this lock could fail, absent a total catastrophic handle disintegration. Put a metal or G10 handle on - it's a tank. The only possible downside, for you 'flickers', is that the button moves as it opens, and if your thumb is on the button while trying to flick it, you won't be able to.

I think an ambi bolt action lock, with a low-profile button, would be a great thing for CRKT !
 
RH:

"Flicking" is what got CRKT in trouble with customs, so I doubt that they (or I for that matter) would care about the consequence of not being able to flick a knife open...

 
This is why I have such a strong preference for small, straight knives!
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Don Cowles
www.cowlesknives.com
 
I just saw an ad in the April Blade mag (p. 11) for CRKT. They are introducing a new lock called the "BladeLOCK." It is controlled by the thumb stud. It doesn't really describe how it works though
 
You fixed-blade guys: there's a ton of legal advantages to folders over fixed. In California, a typical "tactical folder" can be carried open or concealed either on the street or even on college/university grounds - but on colleges, fixed is limited to 2" and they're an open-carry proposition everywhere.

Sy why bug CRKT?

Because they're so CLOSE to producing what the world needs: a reliable modest-sized fighting folder in the just-under-4" class, priced under $50 on the street.

Also, the steels and manufacturing processes they use would be particularly well suited for the Bolt-Action, or most other modern locks for that matter. What's really held 'em back is royalties on the Axis, Arc, Roller or Compression locks.

If they've got some new, strange lockwork coming down the pipe, cool - sounds like they've figured most if not all of this out already. I hope it works!

Jim
 
One other detail: lock releases do NOT have to be ambi, in my opinion. Clip locations that are swapable side to side are more important, but still not crucial.

Thumbstuds, on the other hand, should *always* be ambi.

Nobody needs to CLOSE knives at high speed. Southpaws can just hit the Bolt release with their forefinger versus thumb, it ain't a big deal.

Jim
 
Jim-

While I do agree that Columbia River is making some of the nicest stuff out there for the money, I have my doubts that they will develop anything specifically for self-defense. Or, even if they do, they will probably never market is as such.

If you’ve read the latest print ads from Columbia River, it’s pretty obvious they want to avoid any notion of being a company that produces “weapons”. Not my words, mind you. From reading the ad copy, it’s apparent that they are trying very seriously to adhere to the notion that they are in the business of producing useful tools, not defensive hardware. Their most recent flirting with US Customs of course, fuels this.

Additionally, while I agree that liner locks can fail, and there are much better methods out there, Columbia River has just spent some development dollars on a different locking system, the BladeLock. So I’d be a bit hesitant to think they will be indulging in any new locking mechanisms at the moment.

Not to rain on your parade, I’m with you man- but I just don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon. Certainly not with the defensive moniker anyway.

Firebat


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Name's Ash......Housewares.
 
Firebat,

I think you need to do some research on what KFF stands for. How can you say that they won't come out with something designed and marketed specifically for defense when they already have? The knife this thread is directed at is named and marketed as just that.

Jim McCullough

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Next time you feel your life is sooo tough, read this- Some American Heroes
 
KFF came out before the Customs thing. CRKT used to have ads that read "Man-to-Man Defense" (Point Guard). Now they bill even the Ryan and Tighe-Tac as "heavy duty work knife" and "gentleman's folder" respectively...

PM
 
I've never had any trouble with any of CRKT's products. I too, also wonder why you've chosen to target only CRKT for this petition.

 
Again: this isn't an attack on CRKT. On the contrary, they're the *closest* to producing the reliable sub-$50 fighting folder we need. In the KFF, they've shown a distinct willingness to *try* and fit that need.

My point is that they're not quite there yet, and I'd like to prod them that last little distance they need to cover - and it involves the lockwork.

I don't mean this as an attack on them.

As to what they call it, or if they put a "peaceful moniker" on it, I could care less
smile.gif
.

Jim
 
I have a M16-14, 4" tanto blade with hard anodized finish and "Carson" flipper. I love the finish on the handle. I'll admit that I've abused the handle on the knife, as I always do, from shorting-out contacts on an electric motor to getting corrosive ink (from exploding dye packs) all over it to keeping it in my pocket with several pounds (well, seems that way) of metal junk to using it as a hammer on locks on bags. The finish on the handle looks almost as good as new. I like the hard anodized so much, I just ordered a hard anodized Sure Fire flashlight. I hope it holds-up as well as the handle on my CRKT knife.

Also, I've had no problems with the liner lock. I routinely drop the knife when using it to cut open tough nylon bags. The tip is ruined (my fault from dropping it), but the lock has never failed. I've had to pry the lock lose with a screwdrive, but that's only when I put an extreme amount of pressure on the back of the blade, as I shouldn't.

Steel? I like the softer steel CRKT uses. It's much easier to sharpen than any other expensive knife I have, and I haven't chipped it like I've done with several other expensive knives (not naming names, the abuse was probably my fault). It takes some work to keep a decent edge, but at least I can sharpen it unlike some other knives I own.

What I have a problem with is the blade. It was rusted new out of the box, and CRKT doesn't warranty against rust. I usually don't keep knives that long because I tear-up the handles or chip the blades, so it originally didn't bother me too badly. Now, it's starting to bother me, because the blade looks so bad while the handle still looks good. I just wish the blades were made up to the same standards as the rest of the knife.
 
Jim, I'm with you on the locking liner issue. Nothing but an Axis usually graces my pocket anymore
smile.gif
.

What I'm against are "defensive" or "tacticals" flooding the market the way they have over the past ten years. CRKT has gone a step further and made them so affordable that people who maybe wouldn't (shouldn't) carry such a folder now do. I don't think that this type of overexposure is gonna be healthy in the long run for our cause.

Edit: To elaborate on this, while renewing my tags at the DMV a few months ago, I spied a young man, probably 19 years old, carrying a clipped folder in his right front pocket. I got close enough to see "CRKT" in yellow on the black clip. I have no idea what model. As I left for my car, he was behind me, and I held the door open for him. I told him that he needed to drop his folder deep into his pocket when entering state buildings like DMV's and post offices. He told me to get bent, in so many words. Not sure what's what with that.

I guess in a way my statements seem elitist, and that is certainly not my intention. Just another point of view.

Professor.

[This message has been edited by Professor (edited 03-08-2001).]
 
The rust is a result of the bead-blast finish. It increases the surface area by a huge amount, giving rust more places to attack. I've seen it happen with their ATS34 and AUS8 pieces, neither of which rust in smooth-finish pieces by other makers.

It *might* be the heat-treat but I doubt it...edgeholding and toughness is generally reported as decent across the CRKT line for the steels they use so I doubt they're screwing up the heat-treats.

If your CRKT variant can be disassembled, using a dremel polishing bit and polishing paste to give the blade a high-gloss fine finish would be the ultimate cure. That sort of finish costs more money than bead-blasting.

That may be one reason they went to AUS6 - increased rust-resistance despite bead-blasting?

Well, if so it's not a bad idea. If the recipe for a sub-$50 solid fighter calls for AUS6 and bead-blasting, I think we can accept that.

Just throw a good lock on it
smile.gif
.

Jim
 
Professor, those with genuine evil intent are going to carry knives or worse. There's not a dang thing we can do to stop that...illegally concealed fixed-blades are a far more serious threat.

The most secure prison in the US is Pelican Bay State Prison in California. Recent construction, state of the art electronic surveilance, it's where they stick the "worst of the worst" - gang leaders, the ultra-violent, real freaks.

In the aftermath of a yard riot, 80 improvised stabbing and/or cutting implements were confiscated.

80.

Self defense is a basic human right. I want people to be able to carry an effective legal folder that won't fail in a fight...one I can recommend to a newbie, or buy as a gift, or for myself as backup or for when I have to deal with a 4" legal limit in another state or on an airplane.

Trust me, such a piece isn't going to increase violent crime.

See also the Lott/Mustard study, from the University of Chicago School of Law and Economics:
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/JLS/lott.pdf (Adobe Acrobat Reader needed, download for free at http://www.adobe.com if necessary.)

Jim
 
I agree with most of Jim's basic points. I might complain about material choices or the like. But CRKT has married eye-grabbing custom designs, with excellent quality for the price, with an extremely reasonable price point. What they're missing most is a reliable lock format, and for the reasons Jim outlined, the LAWKS is nothing but a band-aid.

CRKT has carved a nice niche for itself with the combination of attributes they have, and I want to see them expand their strengths from there, but they have to keep up on reliability issues. The industry leaders are all moving (or trying to move) lock technology ahead. Keep up or die!

Joe
 
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