An open letter to CRKT

I agree with the bolt-action concept. I have an old Gerber Bolt Action, and I love it. It is very solid and simple to disengage. I wish more knives had it.

Gerber's little Chameleon thing does sport this lock, but I have a huge problem with the plastic stud they use to disengage the lock. My knife has a nice, ergonomic metal one, and I cannot for the life of me see why they didn't keep it this way. I actually passed on one of those pieces for this very reason.

In any event, I agree with you on the bolt action, and I'm sure that even Martha Stewart would say "It's a good thing".

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Sometimes I catch myself assuming that everybody knows their way around a pocket knife. Then I remember what the first three letters of "assume" are.
- James K. Mattis
 
My only complaint about some of the tactical CRKT knives is the bead-blasting mentioned above. I don't like bead-blasted blades very much anymore, because of the rust factor, and IMO they are not as good-looking as a nice satin finish. My Mirage with satin finish has zero rust problems and it's the same steel as my CRKT bead-blasted blades that do develop rust quite easily it seems. I wish on the new designs they would have a satin finish option.
Jim
 
Jim,

I agree wholeheartedly about the stats of prevalence of carry vs. violent use. We saw it happen when states changed their concealed weapons permit laws; gun-related crime in Virginia went down. Probably because thugs are afraid to rob banks when they don't know if half the people in the bank are toting a 9mm or .45
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! I really like the effect's it's had overall.

However, I'm not referring to violent crimes committed with knives but rather their prevalence alone. If more and more people are carrying them (due to affordability), the powers that be statewide and nationally are eventually (sooner than later most likely) going to have to make some changes with knife laws. And history has shown us that when that happens, 9x out of 10 it's not in our favor.

I'm only sorry that at this time I don't have suggestions for preventative measures. It used to be that either collectors and users like myself and (the other end of the spectrum) thugs were the people toting blades. Now there's this varied middle ground. The guy who gets one for his birthday and has no idea about carry restrictions. The dad who gets one for father's day and carries it into the post office clipped outside his pants pocket! Now they are everywhere! The fact is that things are gonna come to a boil, and I guess we've gotta be ready to face whatever the outcome may be. Thanks for listenting to my rambling. It is again, only my observation.

Professor.
 
Professor, improved CCW laws are going to help keep knife laws from going crazy, and maybe even roll back some of the BS.

If widespread gun carry is working in a given state, there won't be a lot of pressure to crank down on knives.

And remember, even in Calif, knife laws radically improved in two stages effective 1/1/97 and 1/1/98.

I don't think they'll tighten up. And Calif's CCW system is going to undergo a major improvement soon
smile.gif
.

Jim
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HUNTER3897:
Firebat,

I think you need to do some research on what KFF stands for. How can you say that they won't come out with something designed and marketed specifically for defense when they already have? The knife this thread is directed at is named and marketed as just that.

Jim McCullough

</font>
Click to expand...

Really Jim? Gee, thanks, but I was and am completely aware of that knife. Hell, I've got two of them. You and I know what the letters stand for, but you'd better believe CRKT isn't going draw attention to that acronym, especially as mr44 pointed out, AFTER the Customs ordeal.

Not to mention, ANY edged instrument could be labeled asd a weapon, or "fighter" it's just the context that it's taken in. Sure, that knife is the production version of the Crawford custom design, but c'mon- there are many, many, many other production knives that would "out-tactical" the CRKT KFF with little trouble. That's not the point, though.

If you read my first post you'll see I didn't say they wouldn't ever do it. I'm just saying, they probably wouldn't bring it to fruition as Jim might like. It may incorporate some or all of the things Jim has spoken about, which, hey- would be great. However it's more likely to be marketed as the ultimate rose bush pruner than the ultimate self defense knife.

But, like Jim said- who the hell cares what they name it.

Firebat



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Name's Ash......Housewares.
 
My main beef with CRKT is the liner lock. I have had some bad experiences with this locking mechanism. The LAWKS is an improvement, but, IMO, is better suited to a smaller gents type knife than to a true "tactical". Most of the new locks coming out appear to be very good. Time will tell. In my experience, the safest and most secure locks are also among the simplest. The frame, rocker, and twist locks have been proven. The Compresion lock by Spyderco shows mush promise. Keep in mind that even the best lock can and will inevitibly fail. In the end, the lock-back just may turn out to be the ultmate. I would like to se what CRKT can do with it.

Paul
 
RH and 12 Gauge Shotgun:

Per your inquiries re why CRKT? A bit of background last nite might be edifying.

(
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I'm sorry, but I haven't yet taken the time to learn how to insert links here yet. Got to do that. In the meantime, must simplify and identify.
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)

Last night, was reading The General's thread, entitled CRKT Kasper/Crawford Opinions Wanted, still near the top of the list. In that thread, Jim had a lengthy post regarding CRKT's liner locks. In it, he placed a link to another post, entitled "The $40 Fighting Utility Folder."

I followed that link and read the first post in that thread that Jim had started, which basically was the same anecdote comprising his post in The General's thread. I then made a post wondering why he was either so negative towards CRKT's liner locks, or all liner locks.

Jim responded that he hadn't condemned CRKT's locks or liner locks in his posts. I responded that I thought saying that CRKT should get a "real lock" in the old post was a condemnation of liner locks in general, or CRKT's in partilar.

There were probably a couple postings back and forth, along similar lines -- I have a nearly useless memory.

Anyhow, then late last nite, I saw that Jim had initiated this thread. I also saw that he'd gone back and resurrected the old thread that had been dead since January, and brought it back to the top.

I'm sorry guys, but I just can't quite accept Jim's denial that there is nothing negative about CRKT behind his intentions when he began this thread.

I may be old, slow, and dumb, but I definitely learned last nite that some forumites don't like it when their opinion is questioned or challenged. Of course, am sure that's partly because I'm one of those FNGs. Oddly enough, believe some of us came here with fully -- well, partially at least -- functioning brains, even if we don't know as much about knives as the old-timers.

I did point out to Jim last nite about the new "Blade Lock" knife soon to be released, but it was after he'd begun this thread and brought his old thread back to the top.

Bugs
 
OK. Bug, I'm gonna say this just one more time:

The CRKT KFF, when it first came out, offered us a really cool possibility - a functional combat folder in the sub-$50 range with top ergonomics.

It was a genuine breakthrough. Many of us got quite excited about it - it's a "lower-end cousin" to the REKAT Carnivore, a knife we all respect as one of the top folders in it's size class. Bob Kaspar was involved in both designs - look at them side by side and you'll see the family resemblance.

Most everything else in it's size and especially price range is deeply flawed. Zytel grips are OK, but you can't adjust pivot tension and they can loosen up. By a tiny margin, I consider the Goddard Light a better overall folder than the KFF but if the KFF had a better lock?

Nothing else in that price class would stand a chance against a KFF with a serious single-stage lock. And no other manufacturer is poised to come close.

I do not have a personal problem with CRKT, and if you continue to insist I do I'm going to find myself offended.

Jim
 
Professor: Can't resist commenting on your posts. The first, I agree, is elitist. The second's major point has me absolutely flummoxed.

The best way to not lose any of our knife right is to keep "Everyman" from carrying or liking and buying knives? From my perspective, the more of "them" that get to like knives, and become "us" the less we have to worry about. The number of posts about women carrying knives gives me great hope for the future of knives.

Well, seems apologies are in order here.

Ji -- am dropping my "case" -- one chastened FNG duck hunter exiting stage left.

Professor, my humble apologies for being on VA disability and in reduced circumstances, yet having the impertinance to like and buy a few knives, nearly all of them CRKTs.

Am not leaving, just going to curtail my posts a bit. I would like some help though in figuring out whether NG status is lost thru # of posts, or time in??

Bugs
 
Bugs, don't worry about it. We agree completely that even people suffering a temporary or even permanent case of poverty (like I am right now
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) deserve a defensive knife that works.

That's the whole point of this thread.

Look, BF sometimes takes some getting used to. You have a strong-willed personality, you're not the first and you damnsure won't be the last
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. I am too, without question
smile.gif
.

You have to find the way to defend a position, strongly as you feel necessary, without disparaging the motives or personalities of the people on the other side of the debate. Mind you, sometime there really ARE screwed-up motives going on, but it's extremely rare. Thank God.

Heh...tell you what, lemme show you a debate over in Politics that could have turned really, seriously ugly, but didn't:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000816.html

Even before this, I held Ken Cox and Yvsa in high regard but this thread in particular really showed why they deserve such respect - even though on this subject, I disagree with 'em. (I'm not trying to stir up that debate here, just show you an example of impeccable handling of a potentially flammable subject.)

In looking back on it from a "distance", I probably came across a bit too strong myself, although I'd still defend my position today.

Anyways, Bugs, you'll do fine around here
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.

Jim
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jim March:
One other detail: lock releases do NOT have to be ambi, in my opinion. Clip locations that are swapable side to side are more important, but still not crucial.


Thumbstuds, on the other hand, should *always* be ambi.


Nobody needs to CLOSE knives at high speed. Southpaws can just hit the Bolt release with their forefinger versus thumb, it ain't a big deal.


Jim</font>
Click to expand...

The only thing I would add to this is that clip holes should be drilled in all four positions so tip up or down is the ELU's choice. CRKT and all other makers listen up, it's not that hard, and it really helps.

And if there's anyone who still doesn't understand, Jim didn't start this thread to attack CRKT. He started it because he likes CRKT and he wants them to improve their already very good products just a little bit, to make them the top in their class. I, too, am interested to see how well CRKT's new lock works out.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"To give is a need, to receive is mercy." - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
 
Jim,
I'm a fan of liner locks. I like the ease of one hand open/one hand close. In over 40 years of carrying a knife, for one reason or another, I have yet to have:
A lock fail and cause me injury.
A pure defensive need for a folding edged weapon.
This isn't a universal statement by any means, and just because I haven't had it happen to me, I understand that others MMV.
Yes, there are stronger locks, and yes, there are valid reasons to have a stronger, and thereby safer lock. When I look back at the 30 or so years I carried a folding knife with no lock whatsoever, I can consider a liner lock a vast improvement as far as safety is concerned. What I'm getting at here is that I hope a liner lock is not abandoned, but still an alternative. I'm not trying to sound hoilier than thou by any means, especially in light of the fact that every single injury I've personally had has been the result of stupidity on my part, and in no way related to the design of the knife. I appreciate the other lock designs, but have found a liner with a thumb stud to be the closest thing to a perfect design for 99.9% of my uses when I use a folder, yes, even over an auto, which is considered a stronger lock design in most cases. My 2 car console knives are a Benchmade Panther and a CRKT Stiff Kiss. One's for cutting chores and the other is for,,,other things.
 
Bugman, apology accepted
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. And hey, me too!

I guess my comments could be construed as elitist, though again, it ain't the intention or because my chosen career of helping IWD's has made me wealthy
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.

Anyhow, great thread Jim! Multidimensional and made me think too.

Professor.

[This message has been edited by Professor (edited 03-09-2001).]
 
I agree and disagree with what is being said here...

I have stated many times in the past that I don't think liner locks are the most reliable type of lock out there, Hell I have seen high end folders with liner locks made by very well known makers, that locked up worse than a POS Chinese made copy.

While a better lock style is obviously needed(and not just from CRKT), I feel that many people are missing the overall picture. That picture is this....

I understand the need for a low priced reliable folder, because there are many people that can't afford a quality knife, but, you have to ask yourself a very important and honest question. If the defense of my life or of my families lives absolutely depended on the folder I am carrying at any given moment, would I want to rely on a knife that is sub $50?

Now understand, this sub $50 knife at street price actually cost the manufacturer about $10 to make after you figure in shipping from overseas, packaging, advertising, employee pay, distributor profit, etc. Now ask the same question again but substitute the $10 figure in place of the $50 figure. I think my life if worth a lot more than a $10 knife and will NEVER rely on an inexpensive knife for self preservation.

Like I said, there are people who can't afford a decent quality knife, but instead of buying the $50 knife, save up for a few more weeks, months, whatever and buy a knife that you can depend on.

There is a market for these lower priced knives and the manufacturers know this, that is why they build them. The common man say's "Wow, that's a cool looking and INEXPENSIVE fighting knife, I want one". Problem is, if that man ever needs to defend his life with that cool looking and inexpensive fighting knife, it may be too late to say "I should have known better".

Please do not take this as a knock on any company that is producing half-way decent knives for the general masses, like I said, there is a market for them. I think however that if you have enough sense to be part of this site and others, that you should use these knives as a stepping stone into better quality knives and really think about the consequences of depending on a lower end folder for your self preservation.

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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
 
Jim,
Don't jump the gun on the BOLT ACTION patent having "expired long ago". I believe it is due to expire soon, this summer sometime I think. I know Blackie wouldn't be real happy aobut anybody jumping the gun
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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
 
Will Fennel: if true, WHOOPS on my part! But...I distinctly remember handling one of the first Gerber Parabellums (with Bolt Action lock) as a teenager. I'm about to turn 37. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but...patents run 17 years?

smile.gif


You can see why I thought it was out?

Yikes. If anybody's gonna use the BA, do check
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.

Anyways. Jailhack: in one sense, you're absolutely correct that a sub-$50 defensive knife is a marginal idea to start with. But, I've seen the reality: good people, especially young people, carrying Chinese knock-offs on the street. SHUDDER. I've personally given away a total of six knives to friends and/or roommates so that they have *something* at least better than that - five folders, one fixed. I simply can't afford Benchmade price levels every time I did that. And guess what? Out of those six, two have been confirmed drawn against muggers by their owners, and I've got a possible report on a third. Of the two confirmed draws, one was a guy who would at least have been carrying something, although it wouldn't have been as good a piece; the one lady who drew on two strongarm muggers however was NOT in the habit of carrying at all prior to the gift piece.

Now, the two confirmed draws were in bad neihgborhoods, in Oakland (Calif) and the vicinity. I now live in a slightly better area.

The other factor is that if a piece comes out in the $50 that is an obvious leap ahead of the damn knockoffs, more people are likely to plunk down what THEY call "big money" ($50) when the most they've ever spent on a knife is $10 for a knockoff.

And last, there's people right here on this board who could barely scrape up $50 period. It happens, and I'd be the last to disrespect such a person on that basis.

In all these cases, I'd like to see 'em be able to carry something with a truly trustworthy lock in addition to what CRKT already offers, excellent ergos in a defense piece.

Jason: quad-drilled clip holes would be GREAT
biggrin.gif
. Can't agree more, and it should be no more than a buck extra or less (per piece) to do.

Jim
 
Jim,

Like I said before, I have nothing against factory knives as there are a large number of excellent ones out there.I have carried a Rekat Carnivore every day for about 2 years and I absolutely trust it with my life. I have done extreme testing with it and it has NEVER failed.

I know that we are sort of on the same page about this topic. You stated the problem as I see it in your last post.

There are some that say they can't afford a $100 knife, this however doesn't hold any water with me. If you can scrape together enough money to aquire a $50 knife,(and note that you have survived this long without one), then instead of jumping on the knife you think is the one you want as soon as you get the money, KEEP saving for a little while longer. Those who say they can't are just fooling themselves.

Why? Easy, do you really need that 1 extra cup of coffee or soda or buttered roll or whatever everyday? Of course not, put that $1 away everyday for the next month and a half (again remember that you have survived this long without the knife)and now you CAN afford that $100 knife. I would never put a person down for not being able to buy even a $50 knife, but in the overall picture, those people are few and far between.

As for the guy buying the $10 knock-off, he just doesn't have a clue and never will unless someone like the people on these forums EDUCATES them.

Take the same scenario as before in which the $50 folder really only cost $10 to make, how much does the $10 knock-off cost to make? Probably about $1.50. I don't know of ANY person alive that would knowingly put their lives in the hands of a knife that cost $1.50. It's all about education, and I try to educate as many people that I can that I come across on a daily basis.

Is a $50 knife better than no knife? Of course, which is why they have a place in our society. It also serves as a fine point to begin your knowledge of knives and to further your interest. General light duty use, no problem, just don't rely 100% on it. I am just trying to raise peoples awareness as to the reality of the differences.

Will any company ever put out the perfect $50 knife? Of course not, they would probably put themselves out of business. Why? If that becomes THE knife, they will not be able to sell any others in their lineup and everyone know's that you can't rely on just one particular knife to keep your company going. Maybe for awhile, but not for very long.

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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "


[This message has been edited by Jailhack (edited 03-09-2001).]
 
I believe that it is extremely useful for companies to receive both positive and negative consumer feedback regarding their products. It is also critical for them to hear what directions their customers would like to see them head in.

Jim, I couldn't agree with you more about CRKT. Rod Bremer and Co. have carved out a terrific niche for themselves by bringing world class custom blade designs like the KFF to market at incredibly reasonable prices- while still producing first rate blades in the bargain. Because of CRKT, everyone can now afford to carry a top notch tactical blade. And that is a very good thing, IMO.

That said, however, could the KFF and CRKT's other tactical folders benefit from an even more secure locking system like the Axis Lock? No question in my mind.

I figure that I must have been one of the first people to start carrying a CRKT KFF as Rod sent me a couple of the first ones produced to performance test. And perform they did. What an incredible tactical folder for the money. I still wear a KFF as my R hand carry, and train with my KFFs several times a week. I even bought a couple more and turned them into trainers by filing off and rounding over the tips and edges.

So, I have done a whole lot of training with the CRKT KFF, both against dense targets of various kinds and against live opponents. All this training has served only to further convince me that the KFF is beyond good for the money. But, my training has also revealed that while the LAWKS system works great under most circumstances, it can and does fail.

Once I am able to fully engage the LAWKS safety and am training or fighting full out- full speed, full contact- it takes many hard wacks against the spine of the blade or twists as I pull the blade from a target after a thrust, before the LAWKS will slowly work its way backward from its forward detent position and disengage. This simply means that I have to moniter it occasionally with my thumb to make sure that it is still fully engaged- a slight nuisance in real time, but doable.

Because of this tendancy of the LAWKS to slip backwards during hard use, I recommended to CRKT after my testing of the KFF that if they were going to continue to put LAWKS on their folders, that they needed to make the forward detent such that it actively prevents the LAWKS from slipping backwards until the user manually disengages it to close the knife.

Unfortunately, I discovered a more serious problem with the principle of the LAWKS safety during scenario training. This is where I have a committed opponent attack me with a blade and I have to defend as I draw my KFF from its clipped position in my pocket, flick it open, engage the LAWKS safety, and counter.

Against a really good knifefighter- someone who is wicked fast, sneaky, and skilled like my training partner Professor Tom Sotis- I have very little time to get my blade into play as I'm warding off attacks. Plus there is the real danger of being disarmed in those vulnerable few seconds while I am drawing and openning my blade. So, getting a secure grip on my knife as quickly as possible is critical. Sometimes I just gotta go for the secure grip and immediate counter and leave the engaging of the LAWKS safety until later in the flow of the fight. It is during these moments, when the LAWKS is not engaged yet, and I throw a witik or hook or backcut, or especially during a hard thrust from reverse grip, that the liner lock is most likely to fail and the blade to close down on my hand. It happens rarely, but it happens, and more often when the blade is in reverse grip due to the stresses on the blade in that grip.

For this reason, I've stopped carrying a KFF as my L hand carry. Because the clip on the KFF is not reversible and the carry is point down, on the L side I am forced to draw in reverse grip and sometime I just don't have the luxury of time to twirl the blade into forward grip and engage the LAWKS before countering. I've therefore gone back to my Benchmade 710 Axis Lock- even though I don't like its overall feel or the ergonomics of its handle nearly as much as the KFF's- as my L hand carry because the blade simply will not close on my hand once its opened( and, believe me, I've tried every sort of realistic scenario/torture test I can think of to see if the Axis Lock will give way under combat conditions and it just won't).

The bottom line is that I love the CRKT KFF on many levels, but the limitations of the LAWKS safety have forced me to make an adjustment that I didn't want to make. So, would I like to see a KFF with an Axis Lock? Would I!! It would be the answer to all of our prayers- hands down the best tactical folder on the market for the money, bar none.

I would love to hear from Rod regarding their new Blade Lock system, how it works, and if it will be offered on the KFF. Have you contacted Rod and CRKT about this thread and their upcoming Blade Lock, Jim?

Mario



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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.


 
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