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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
And the winner is.........................................
- Thread starter Mike Turber
- Start date
Richard
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Wow, talk about carbon copy. Well, at least the pivot screw is a little different.
Mike, I sure hope that those are approved by the original makers....you would not just rip them off would you?
Seeing as how no other maker/mfg/dealer could get by with blatant self promotion in the general forum, I would hope that since you are doing so that at least those designs your promoting are legit.
Richard
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Im sure you can see the concern here Mike.
I do hope that the designs are legit and that the makers are being properly compensated so that I can support your company by purchasing the Rob Simonich design.
I do hope that the designs are legit and that the makers are being properly compensated so that I can support your company by purchasing the Rob Simonich design.
wire edge
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This crap will make excellent flea market fodder. Thousands of children will slap their $5 on the barrel head and be happy campers.
This is not the caliber of knife that a majority of us talk about here at BF, and the only reason we are, is due to the infringment of other makers patterns.
Like I said, this grade of cutlery will excite thousands of non-knife enthusiasts, but not the true enthusiasts.
This is not the caliber of knife that a majority of us talk about here at BF, and the only reason we are, is due to the infringment of other makers patterns.
Like I said, this grade of cutlery will excite thousands of non-knife enthusiasts, but not the true enthusiasts.
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John,
Thanks for bringing those to my attention. I was not aware of them and now I am pissed. I was told they were in house designs but obviously something is amiss. It looks like David has a point but I do know Joel and Steve personally and I will try and work something out.
Also let me explain a bit about what I hope to accomplish with this new venture. China has been knocking off knives for years and so did Taiwan in the beggining. I think by educating the Chinese and not ignoring them is the way to go. The partners that are in the US are very nice people and I know for a fact they were not aware of the Joel or Ryan knife. I would not have put those in the catalog had I known myself and I feel like a total dick now and look like a complete moron. Lesson learned. But before we turn this into a huge bashing, let's see what we can do to make some good out of it first.
Here is my understanding of those knives. When I saw the prototypes in California I was impressed. I new we had a factory that could produce at or near Taiwan quality. The 6 boss knives that were on the table were those you see in the catalog. I was told they were in house designs. One looked extremely similar to a design David sent in. Although Daivd had not made that knife that I was aware of I knew that if we did it would be to close to his and that we should give him credit for it anyway. I talked to David about this and he is aware of that situation. With minor changes we made the knife look more like Daivd's knife and the Mini-Raptor was born.
Now I sit here with egg on my face as I see the other 2 knives that John showed pictures of are clearly rip offs. This does not sit well with me at all and I will be talking to the factory and the US partners about the situation and it will be corrected ASAP. It is to late to change the catalog. Or maybe not. I get the color proof at the begginging of the week and I guess or hope I can make some fast changes. I will need to contact Steve and Joel to see if we can make them collaborators quickly and get this thing back on track. I would obviously understand if they did not want to do such a thing but I think that since the factory has made the knives already it would be a good thing. Also since we do not own this facotry it seems as though those knives will come in anyway if we don't make them an exclusive for BOSS.
Guys thanks for the heads up and please let me know if there are any other knives that are knock-offs as I obviously can not know about every knife made.
Thanks for bringing those to my attention. I was not aware of them and now I am pissed. I was told they were in house designs but obviously something is amiss. It looks like David has a point but I do know Joel and Steve personally and I will try and work something out.
Also let me explain a bit about what I hope to accomplish with this new venture. China has been knocking off knives for years and so did Taiwan in the beggining. I think by educating the Chinese and not ignoring them is the way to go. The partners that are in the US are very nice people and I know for a fact they were not aware of the Joel or Ryan knife. I would not have put those in the catalog had I known myself and I feel like a total dick now and look like a complete moron. Lesson learned. But before we turn this into a huge bashing, let's see what we can do to make some good out of it first.
Here is my understanding of those knives. When I saw the prototypes in California I was impressed. I new we had a factory that could produce at or near Taiwan quality. The 6 boss knives that were on the table were those you see in the catalog. I was told they were in house designs. One looked extremely similar to a design David sent in. Although Daivd had not made that knife that I was aware of I knew that if we did it would be to close to his and that we should give him credit for it anyway. I talked to David about this and he is aware of that situation. With minor changes we made the knife look more like Daivd's knife and the Mini-Raptor was born.
Now I sit here with egg on my face as I see the other 2 knives that John showed pictures of are clearly rip offs. This does not sit well with me at all and I will be talking to the factory and the US partners about the situation and it will be corrected ASAP. It is to late to change the catalog. Or maybe not. I get the color proof at the begginging of the week and I guess or hope I can make some fast changes. I will need to contact Steve and Joel to see if we can make them collaborators quickly and get this thing back on track. I would obviously understand if they did not want to do such a thing but I think that since the factory has made the knives already it would be a good thing. Also since we do not own this facotry it seems as though those knives will come in anyway if we don't make them an exclusive for BOSS.
Guys thanks for the heads up and please let me know if there are any other knives that are knock-offs as I obviously can not know about every knife made.
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It looks like David and I worked it out. Now I am trying to reach Steve. I have Joels phone number but does anyone have Steve's? Don't post it if you do, just call me (1-800-969-7771) or email me or PM me.
Thanks!
Steve and Joel if you read this call me ASAP. I may be able to "stop the presses" so to speak...
Thanks!
Steve and Joel if you read this call me ASAP. I may be able to "stop the presses" so to speak...
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I should have said this last night, but I was tired. Congratulations Tom, Dave and Rob. Three awesome guys!
Mike, I'm dumb founded you didn't notice the Ryan right off the bat. I gave you more credit as an importer and knife dealer man.
I mean, that one is a flat out knock off, down to the shape of the bolsters and the shape of the damn thumb hole.
Joel's is a tad more obscure, only because he has his knives made in small batches and for some damn reason he isn't a household name yet. I'm sure had you been aware of his designs, you would have approached him for a collaboration. His stuff is that good.
I really like to looks of the Bali. And what can you say about Rob's fixed blade . . . very sweet! But honestly, I don't think I could bring myself to buy one considering what these guys are doing to designers/makers I have the utmost respect for.
I personally find even the thought of saying "well, their going to make them and import them anyway, so you might as well say it's OK" sort of disgusting. Sort of like telling some girl "Well, your going to get f*cked anyway, you might as well say it's OK" while your tearing her clothes off.
With all due respect
John
Mike, I'm dumb founded you didn't notice the Ryan right off the bat. I gave you more credit as an importer and knife dealer man.
I mean, that one is a flat out knock off, down to the shape of the bolsters and the shape of the damn thumb hole.Joel's is a tad more obscure, only because he has his knives made in small batches and for some damn reason he isn't a household name yet. I'm sure had you been aware of his designs, you would have approached him for a collaboration. His stuff is that good.
I really like to looks of the Bali. And what can you say about Rob's fixed blade . . . very sweet! But honestly, I don't think I could bring myself to buy one considering what these guys are doing to designers/makers I have the utmost respect for.
I personally find even the thought of saying "well, their going to make them and import them anyway, so you might as well say it's OK" sort of disgusting. Sort of like telling some girl "Well, your going to get f*cked anyway, you might as well say it's OK" while your tearing her clothes off.
With all due respect
John
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And, on a lesser note, since the major ripoffs have already been noted, what about the use of the Spyderco hole? I thought I remembered Sal saying he no longer licenses it to production companies, only custom makers as he doesn't want other production companies watering down the Spyderco image. Now I see what he's saying with stuff like this 
I thought the Parasite/Host was cool, but then I saw all the ripoffs. Don't think I'll be buying anything from WOW. Too bad: I was excited about maybe getting some budget knives to really test/use harder than usual.
I thought the Parasite/Host was cool, but then I saw all the ripoffs. Don't think I'll be buying anything from WOW. Too bad: I was excited about maybe getting some budget knives to really test/use harder than usual.
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I just talked to Steve and to be honest John there is no way I would have known about that knife as it is exclusive to some company in Japan. Sorry I don't know about every knife made and I am getting more info as the day goes on.
I will kill the Mohawk ad I don't think it is too late. I did aproach Joel about designing knives as he would not even be in this industry if I had not introduced him to Microtech several years ago. Yes I was in fact the person who started Joel out here. The Vortex design is Allen Elishiwitz design as well so I have a call into him. I hope to clear things up ASAP but if you know of any other design that is a knock off in those pages let me know.
As far as the Spyderco thing I am not sure how Provantus will be proceeding as my understanding is that the hole is not a Spyderco patent anyway. But we will see.
I will kill the Mohawk ad I don't think it is too late. I did aproach Joel about designing knives as he would not even be in this industry if I had not introduced him to Microtech several years ago. Yes I was in fact the person who started Joel out here. The Vortex design is Allen Elishiwitz design as well so I have a call into him. I hope to clear things up ASAP but if you know of any other design that is a knock off in those pages let me know.
As far as the Spyderco thing I am not sure how Provantus will be proceeding as my understanding is that the hole is not a Spyderco patent anyway. But we will see.
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The Spyderco patent has expired which covered all holes. But the circular hole is still covered as it is a trademark of theirs. This is why Benchmade has switched to the oval hole for their AFCK and others. They couldn't get permission to keep using the circular hole so they switched to the oval after the patent expired.
If you want to use a hole, you can use anything except for the circular hole.
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You're asking what knives are ripoffs? I'll do my best here.
The Grunt, on page 7 looks a hell of a lot like the Strider GB except for some finger grooves.
The Squid has been covered.
The Fly Boy really reminds me of something, but I'm not sure so I won't jump to conclusions.
The Mohawk has been covered.
The Toucan will have to change hole types.
I don't know what else.
The Grunt, on page 7 looks a hell of a lot like the Strider GB except for some finger grooves.
The Squid has been covered.
The Fly Boy really reminds me of something, but I'm not sure so I won't jump to conclusions.
The Mohawk has been covered.
The Toucan will have to change hole types.
I don't know what else.
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Hopefully these IP issues will be resolved. But I have to say I am not excited with the line of offerings. There is a great variation in style, and many designs seem more fanciful than practical. Some of the folders look terribly unergonomic.
I think the most successful companies defined themselves with a certain design philosophy, a certain "use" in mind. Strider's line are over-built, hard-use knives. Emersons are cleverly designed for self-defence. Reeve, Microtech are both unmistakably distinctinve. Some companies like Benchmade, Spyderco have many designers, but they all follow an identifiable theme. If you can come out with something that says, I'm different, I can do something the others can't, then that has termendous apeal.
Granted at $25-50 we're not expecting a revolution. But being made in China you'll have to work extra hard to get away from the copycat image. Keep the designes simple, useful, no-frills, working class, and you have a nice niche.
I think the most successful companies defined themselves with a certain design philosophy, a certain "use" in mind. Strider's line are over-built, hard-use knives. Emersons are cleverly designed for self-defence. Reeve, Microtech are both unmistakably distinctinve. Some companies like Benchmade, Spyderco have many designers, but they all follow an identifiable theme. If you can come out with something that says, I'm different, I can do something the others can't, then that has termendous apeal.
Granted at $25-50 we're not expecting a revolution. But being made in China you'll have to work extra hard to get away from the copycat image. Keep the designes simple, useful, no-frills, working class, and you have a nice niche.
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Mike, am I to understand that these knives are all made in China?
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The knives are being made in China however we are going to be making some components there and finishing the knife here on a few designs.
The line is not purpose driven like certain brands as we are going for a much wider audience. Our main goal is to offer incredible value with the option of design purpose up to the designer themselves. We hope to have a ever expanding line.
Also my intent is to liquidate the current inventory these factories have and move them towards exclusive designs, not the knock offs you see coming out of China now. This will take time and I have much patience as the goal is worth it. It is basically what happend with Taiwan. As many of you remember Taiwan was the knock off capital several years ago. China holds that title now but at least I can be a part of the solution and not the problem. Our catalog will feature the Boss and Lile line which after a bit of pruning will have no knock offs at all. The TigerKing line will be discontinued over time but right now it features quite a few knock offs and we have already made agreements with US companies that the remaining inventory is to be liquidated. I will catch some heat for it but I really feel the end result will be a new philosophy in China when they see it can be done the right way. I expect a rocky start with teh whole China enigma anyway but I will stand by my plan and see it to fruition.
Also I don't own any of these factories or Provantus. I am acting as an independent rep or consultant. I think I have found a great bunch of people both here and in China who want to turn things around and do the right thing. I am just offering my guidence and hope you guys see what I am trying to accomplish here.
Stay Tuned
The line is not purpose driven like certain brands as we are going for a much wider audience. Our main goal is to offer incredible value with the option of design purpose up to the designer themselves. We hope to have a ever expanding line.
Also my intent is to liquidate the current inventory these factories have and move them towards exclusive designs, not the knock offs you see coming out of China now. This will take time and I have much patience as the goal is worth it. It is basically what happend with Taiwan. As many of you remember Taiwan was the knock off capital several years ago. China holds that title now but at least I can be a part of the solution and not the problem. Our catalog will feature the Boss and Lile line which after a bit of pruning will have no knock offs at all. The TigerKing line will be discontinued over time but right now it features quite a few knock offs and we have already made agreements with US companies that the remaining inventory is to be liquidated. I will catch some heat for it but I really feel the end result will be a new philosophy in China when they see it can be done the right way. I expect a rocky start with teh whole China enigma anyway but I will stand by my plan and see it to fruition.
Also I don't own any of these factories or Provantus. I am acting as an independent rep or consultant. I think I have found a great bunch of people both here and in China who want to turn things around and do the right thing. I am just offering my guidence and hope you guys see what I am trying to accomplish here.
Stay Tuned
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I kinda dig the Grunt and Squid on page 7. I am not well versed enough to call them rip-offs.
Page 5s Tom Anderson is pretty cool too, but haven't I seen that advertised in Blade?
I really don't know what to say except when will I be able to feel one at a local store or gunshow?
Joe Shmoe = CHEAP!!!! But not Stupid!
Page 5s Tom Anderson is pretty cool too, but haven't I seen that advertised in Blade?
I really don't know what to say except when will I be able to feel one at a local store or gunshow?
Joe Shmoe = CHEAP!!!! But not Stupid!
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I would like to know whether or not the US Department of Defense knows that their name and logo is being used to promote/sell these knives. I really doubt that they do or that they would approve of it. Especially a Chinese company/product.
What is the company name too? BOSS? Provantus? Dragon Forge? Make up your mind.
Don't even get me started concerning the knock-offs.
This whole thing smells like yesterdays diapers. :barf: :barf: :barf:
What is the company name too? BOSS? Provantus? Dragon Forge? Make up your mind.
Don't even get me started concerning the knock-offs.
This whole thing smells like yesterdays diapers. :barf: :barf: :barf:
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Mike
I'm glad to see your able to do the right thing about Steve's design. I'm just hoping the Joel/Allen thing works out as well.
I had the same consern about the "DOD", but honestly I'm of a mind that it's in a lesser catagory to them ripping off people in our community. The DOD I'm sure will let thier displesure be known in legal ways if thier name and logo are being used . . . wrongly.
John
I'm glad to see your able to do the right thing about Steve's design. I'm just hoping the Joel/Allen thing works out as well.
I had the same consern about the "DOD", but honestly I'm of a mind that it's in a lesser catagory to them ripping off people in our community. The DOD I'm sure will let thier displesure be known in legal ways if thier name and logo are being used . . . wrongly.
John
