And Then We Have Sticks...

Made my day, as well....the old bulldog threat was real....before the dog lost his teeth, if you fired up a small engine such as a leaf blower, he would kill it....the leaf blower tube crushed flat in his jaws and teeth coming through both sides from opposite....all that was missing was the teeth....the same dog had already been shot by an intruder who then ended up in ER, and struck by a very large rattlesnake which ended up muerto and in pieces....Bo was a very tough dog.
 
Kind a makes me want to go out and hurt somethin!

Maybe after lunch and a short nap.

Oh I'm working, make that lunch and a long nap.
 
Here's a parting shot of a good whomper after that nap....i recommend any object with a lit screen....



Just taken before next line of storms buries walk in leaves...again....walks do not last long here....always wet....and, of course, taken whilst fighting mosquitoes....thought i had won but found, once inside, two latched to back of hand near edge of palm.....where were those snail when i needed them?......only broke two lamps while teeing off on the bloodsuckers....now for a visit to ER and cast for hand....

I really had not gone much into depth on the joy of the old blackthorn stick.....mentioned a bit, light, hard, strong....bambooish resiliency (but more weight behind it) and very nice balance, about 2/5ths distance down from handle, the knob makes an excellent counter balance and stick is whistling fast with either end, and very very fast at light end....far too fast to counteract by any untrained...and i very much like the non-lethal possibilities and will again (i think) mention that anyone whose arms and legs no longer work ceases to be any manner of threat....
 
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Do you by any remote chance know more about Bo's ancestry? Was he an American Bulldog or some other variety?
 
kronckew said:
had a friend with an old almost toothless akita, it had arthritis so bad it could hardly move, was going blind, and was obviously approaching the end of it's days. it wanted only to lie in the sun in the back yard and watch his master's young baby play with the ball he could no longer chase himself, knowing his master was just inside the kitchen door watching over them himself.

one day two agressive, almost feral, german shepherds escaped from a yard further up the road where their owner had kept them and mistreated them, and jumped the fence into the akita's yard, and went snarling straight for the child, before his master had time to react.

the akita killed both of them before they could get close to the child.

don't count out us old folks.

(p.s. - a true story.)
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Very inspiring. I deal quite a lot with Akitas here, some of them are quite cool dogs.
 
Very cool thread. I have my great-grandfather's shillellagh (it's at my folks or I'd take a pic)...it's a fascinating piece of wood. I've been ogling some of the sticks on one of the blackthorn importers sites for a while. I cut a piece of ironwood (not desert-it's a local name around here) more than 25 years ago-eyebrow-height, only weighs about 12 ounces at this point but it'll hold my weight between two cinderblocks. Heck, in Vermont people don't even look at ya fun y if you have a staff. Just act wizardy.
For me the blade is still king-but that's where most of my training was, and I always have a knife.
That, and I did enough full contact stickfighting in the 90's wearing racquetball glasses and field hockey goalie gloves to know that some people are pretty impact resistant, self included. (And I've seen two videos of guys getting CRANKED with 21" ASP batons and just looking at the struck limb and continuing, which is nuts)
The beauty of the stick is it's generally non-lethal nature (you hafta be trying or reaaaally unlucky)-it's too bad that some places treat a stick like it's inherently lethal, and prosecute (persecute) you for using one where lethal force isn't really justified. I'll get a pic of that shillellagh as soon as I can.
 
Moonw said:
Do you by any remote chance know more about Bo's ancestry? Was he an American Bulldog or some other variety?
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Bo was a white mastiff....as his owner remarked after the rattlesnake bite to face had his head inflate like a beachball, "awe, he'll be alright, right, Bo?", followed by a stumpy tail wag...
Owner died in a horrid wreck just down the street, he was a big balding ex football hero and although dead on his feet we had our hands full for 45 mins awaiting an ambulance and he did not make it to hospital....his wife gave the dog away shortly thereafter to someone she knew who could handle him.....this was over 10 yrs ago so expect Bo is now romping with his master in the wonderful land where nothing can be killed no matter how hard he tries and unlimited supply of frisbees to rip in half....
 
I know there are some who can absorb tremendous punishment and especially if drugged, however, non-functioning spasmed knotted muscle and bones not in normal one-piece formation do not support much weight, punched in ribs do not breath all that well, breadbox jabs and their lunch passing before their eyes, and what the punching end of a staff does to face and even throat, is, in the normal course of things, quite enough....and what is the truth is that even very large men have a tendency to move away from anybody flailing with anything.....recently had a quite large lad i know kinda laugh at the blackthorn and say "that would not hurt" and then flinch away when i raised it and quickly add, "i was joking".

So long as the stick is of proper cane size, and not an obvious weapon-only, not much impediment to legal use of a walking stick.....a wizard staff at a Mardi Gras parade or drunken fleet blessing another matter entire...
 
mtngunr said:
I know there are some who can absorb tremendous punishment and especially if drugged, however, non-functioning spasmed knotted muscle and bones not in normal one-piece formation do not support much weight, punched in ribs do not breath all that well, breadbox jabs and their lunch passing before their eyes, and what the punching end of a staff does to face and even throat, is, in the normal course of things, quite enough....and what is the truth is that even very large men have a tendency to move away from anybody flailing with anything.....recently had a quite large lad i know kinda laugh at the blackthorn and say "that would not hurt" and then flinch away when i raised it and quickly add, "i was joking".

So long as the stick is of proper cane size, and not an obvious weapon-only, not much impediment to legal use of a walking stick.....a wizard staff at a Mardi Gras parade or drunken fleet blessing another matter entire...
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And that is it's beauty. I have enormous respect for the end of the stick-both swung and moreso in the thrust. The body of the stick I'm not that worried about-that is part of the fun of rattan. Hit with the tip, and you can hurt somebody. Treat it like a blade, and hit 6" back, and all you get is (sometimes fairly spectacular) bruises.
I also remember reading-I think it was in Christoph Amberger's "secret history of the sword"(which you'd enjoy, Gunner) that the most common murder weapon in medieval England was the quarterstaff.
 
once in wilmington, delaware i was helping a buddy who managed a security firm, i had a 'detective licence' which allowed me to carry concealed as well as openly, so i made some money on the side by being an armed guard. anyway, one day we were supplying security for an event put on by the red cross. we dressed up in full kit to impress them.

we were not welcomed by the mall security but were tolerated. anyway, we caught a few pickpockets and such preying on the crowd watching the event. i was in a uniform resembling the state police with my buddy, our wives were in plain clothes. we walked along the sides and the pickpockets went the other way straight into the wives who did the actual captures. (this was my wife no. 2, the one that got the stainless s&w .357 mag in the divorce agreement).

anyway, the real state police showed up & we turned the pickpockets over to them, when a mall security person came over and asked us to help stop a fight at the mall's movie theater. we ran down there & two huge gorilla biker types were at it hammer and tongs.

i drew my night stick, a std. police model we thought dressed us up for the occasion where we were trying to impress the red cross. anyway i used it to put an joint arm lock on the biggest one & was letting them know they'd get hit next, the big guy's wife started screaming 'don't hit him - please don't hit him' and he started crying. my buddy came up and grabbed the other one. the fight stopped. the guy was afraid of the stick, but not the nice shiney .357 S&W on my hip (yes, the same one wife #2 got 8 yrs. later in the divorce). but it was not over...

just as we got it it all under control, the head of mall security came running up and the ijjut maced us all. he'd been out behind the mall where two punks tried to break in a store and had gotten knifed (slashed the side of his head a bit) for his trouble, so he was a bit excited. boy that stuff burned.

anyhow, i was surprised at how effective a night stick could be. especially when you act like you know what you are doing. the gorilla biker was about 6ft & 300 lbs. and built like a troll wrestler. i was 5'8 and 140lb. soaking wet.

the rest of the event was fairly uneventful.
 
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My "professional" stick experience was in a theater of operations where a small portion of locals were sympathetic to opposition and had taken to beating others into joining them, usually in front of wife and kids and often enough beat the wife as well....we met them one day on their route....and used our sticks....they went back to taking pot shots after that...

But mainly just growing up where large drunken crowd events with gangs cruising crowd edges along with drunks and both classes looking to settle grudges...and normal folk caught in the melees.....it is very disconcerting to a punk with a knife when the guy with the stick laughs at the knife...then they learn why....

Everyone with any sense carried some manner of "cane" when with friends and family at those events....and always solid hardwood....and when any guy commenced to doing room clearing baseball bat swings, you can bet any trouble cleared off and scattered....as for how wild some of those events could be, i remember one shrimp fleet blessing where two vessels collided in the bayou, and what with freely flowing beer and booze among crew and partying passengers, almost immediately there were folk swinging across on ropes and nets and others jumping across with knives and bats....rough towns and rowdy folk....generally married before high school graduation and kids to support working the family's boat.....

As for the quarter-staff, i think it so common at that time (and as mentioned already, was later named the official weapon of the realm), that it would have been remarkable had it not been the #1 man killer.....murder, back then, was simply killing a man....it was up to the locals to decide if it a punishable offense.....and if it was, rough justice was certain and swift....about the only way out of that justice, whether it was warranted or not, was to flee to a church for sanctuary, which was honored up until the abolishment of Catholicism by the Crown so as to allow invasion and siezure....even then, when a circuit judge made the rounds, the best outcome was penniless exile in a foreign country, already overloaded with poor and unprotected by any local noble..a very short life, in general, either way....
 
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mtngunr said:
Bo was a white mastiff....as his owner remarked after the rattlesnake bite to face had his head inflate like a beachball, "awe, he'll be alright, right, Bo?", followed by a stumpy tail wag...
Owner died in a horrid wreck just down the street, he was a big balding ex football hero and although dead on his feet we had our hands full for 45 mins awaiting an ambulance and he did not make it to hospital....his wife gave the dog away shortly thereafter to someone she knew who could handle him.....this was over 10 yrs ago so expect Bo is now romping with his master in the wonderful land where nothing can be killed no matter how hard he tries and unlimited supply of frisbees to rip in half....
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Thanks. Sounds like a proper dog for a good man. I wish dogs will follow us in the next life, but subject is still in research...
 
mtngunr said:
My "professional" stick experience was in a theater of operations where a small portion of locals were sympathetic to opposition and had taken to beating others into joining them, usually in front of wife and kids and often enough beat the wife as well....we met them one day on their route....and used our sticks....they went back to taking pot shots after that...

But mainly just growing up where large drunken crowd events with gangs cruising crowd edges along with drunks and both classes looking to settle grudges...and normal folk caught in the melees.....it is very disconcerting to a punk with a knife when the guy with the stick laughs at the knife...then they learn why...
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My "peacekeeping" deployment was a prime example of why you don't send 11B's to do that stuff.
No riot gear, no batons, no pepper spray- so your non lethal options included flash hidering the guy (think bayonet with no bayonet), boots, and in my case a hammerback tomahawk (which actually worked really well-never had to hit anybody with it because even Kosovars find axes disconcerting).
I think most knifers we would consider "punks" are after your compliance or your fear, not your life...
My friend Bob (names have been changed to protect the dignity) was a Louisiana state police detective in the 70's on the gulf coast. Happened into a barfight looking for a suspect and when he pulled a guy out of the fight the guy stuck him through the hand with a switchblade...even before guns or badges came out the guy was trying to-well, maybe not apologize, but it was pretty clear he felt like he was suddenly out of his depth.
My comment to Bob was "didja shoot him?" And Bob's reply was "I was busy!!"
With a skinny knife blade stuck through the outer edge of his left palm...
 
The bars out where i grew up were more like, and of the time of, Joe Don Baker's version of "Walking Tall", strip joints and prostitutes across every city, county and state line, run by organized crime "Dixie Mafia" having interstate hits put out, and local smiths making special guns for "jobs".....owner and bartenders cars parked inside a razor wire enclosure to prevent tire slashing, folk behind bar with 38's stuck in back of pants, and really huge boys from down the bayou coming up that way to blow off steam by drinking and fighting....as for how big, i recall one drunk going from bar stool to bar stool challenging folk to fights (my own answer to offer to buy him another beer and he mumbled and went on to next guy) and owner calling the sheriff's.....a bit later a large deputy stuck his head in the door, saw how huge the guy was and left....a bit later six large deputies returned.....and no attempt to do anything but talk this one out the door including offers of a ride home with "aw, come on, Billy, you know you don't wanna go to jail tonight, you know how upset your wife will be, and we don't wanna have to take you you, you remember the last time, so let Norville here give you a ride home and we'll make sure you get back to your truck tomorrow...."
 
kronckew said:
once in wilmington, delaware i was helping a buddy who managed a security firm, i had a 'detective licence' which allowed me to carry concealed as well as openly, so i made some money on the side by being an armed guard. anyway, one day we were supplying security for an event put on by the red cross. we dressed up in full kit to impress them.

we were not welcomed by the mall security but were tolerated. anyway, we caught a few pickpockets and such preying on the crowd watching the event. i was in a uniform resembling the state police with my buddy, our wives were in plain clothes. we walked along the sides and the pickpockets went the other way straight into the wives who did the actual captures. (this was my wife no. 2, the one that got the stainless s&w .357 mag in the divorce agreement).

anyway, the real state police showed up & we turned the pickpockets over to them, when a mall security person came over and asked us to help stop a fight at the mall's movie theater. we ran down there & two huge gorilla biker types were at it hammer and tongs.

i drew my night stick, a std. police model we thought dressed us up for the occasion where we were trying to impress the red cross. anyway i used it to put an joint arm lock on the biggest one & was letting them know they'd get hit next, the big guy's wife started screaming 'don't hit him - please don't hit him' and he started crying. my buddy came up and grabbed the other one. the fight stopped. the guy was afraid of the stick, but not the nice shiney .357 S&W on my hip (yes, the same one wife #2 got 8 yrs. later in the divorce). but it was not over...

just as we got it it all under control, the head of mall security came running up and the ijjut maced us all. he'd been out behind the mall where two punks tried to break in a store and had gotten knifed (slashed the side of his head a bit) for his trouble, so he was a bit excited. boy that stuff burned.

anyhow, i was surprised at how effective a night stick could be. especially when you act like you know what you are doing. the gorilla biker was about 6ft & 300 lbs. and built like a troll wrestler. i was 5'8 and 140lb. soaking wet.

the rest of the event was fairly uneventful.
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For some reason, I always thought of you as of a big dude. This story made my day.
 
Mtngunr, now I understand why one would rather go to war than live there :D.

Your story about the bulldog reminds me of a guy in Texas I know, he bred his own line of bulldogs. He got back an old bitch that he had placed with a guy hunting wild hogs (made a living out of offering hunts for city folk). She had no teeth left in her mouth yet she would still try to catch unruly cows and most times manage to hang from their snout just because of the power she had in her jaws.
 
We were not issued anything such as full riot gear but we did requisition and receive some nice sticks....mainly as non-lethal reaction to small group of extremist thugs....is was a good move and built a lot of good will.....and with them back at pot shots, fair game for whoever was on the long guns that day....

The white mastiff would probably easily have broken a femur even with no teeth left.....when he had teeth he would chase the go cart/dune buggy and give it flat tyres..if all things are made perfect in the next life and this world only a pale shadow or reflection of it, since we are talking all creation and all possibilities through all ages, i think it ego centric to think ALL things not perfected, and no reason to exclude the beauty of nature...
 
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