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Angle grinder troubles
- Thread starter Bordo
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Dang it I thought I checked that.
Well you made me look again anyway.
page 11 of the manual
WARNING: Accessories must be rated for at least the speed
recom mended on the tool warning label. Wheels and other
accessories running over rated accessory speed may burst and
cause injury. Threaded accessories must have a 5/8"–11 NC threaded hub.
Every unthreaded accessory must have a 7/8" arbor hole.
Threaded accessories must have a 5/8"–11 NC threaded hub.
If the wheel has a nut attached, you take the washers off and just screw it on directly.
Every unthreaded accessory must have a 7/8" arbor hole.
Like this, you need to use the washers to center, drive and clamp the disc.
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As a pipe fitter working mostly in the oil refinery business I have many years experience with grinders. We are heavily safety regulated and have an excellent safety record. They do make thin disk designed to cut, the .045 in particular and the 1/16 wheels also work well to cut. We often cut stainless and other high alloy plate and pipe with the .045 disks. I have worn out many 4 1/2 grinders. I think I have about 6 of them now and a box full of parts from worn out ones. Armatures burn up, usually from bad brushes and overloading, gears chip and break, bearing go out, switches fail. They are considered a semi-consumable in the industry. I run mostly Dewalts. Metobo makes some of the best though. Cheap grinders are not worth it, you will burn up more than one good one cost. I have seen new style Dewalts for under $70. Same thing applies to disks.
Let me also state that you will get much more material cut per $ with a good portaband and good blades than with a grinder. Hardened material of course changes this heavily to the grinders favor. I get most of my disk grinder supplies (and portaband blades) in the form of big oil rebates. Most of the time we are expected to supply our own grinders. but, are handed disks and blades by the box and not expected to return them. We don't.
Here are some basic safety rules.
1. Make sure the disk is designed for your grinder. Pay attention that the max speed of the grinder does not exceed that of the disk. If the disk vibrates DO NOT USE IT
2. Make sure the disk is properly mounted and secured with the proper backing plate and nut.
3. Keep the guard on and positioned between you and the disk.
4. Wear safety glasses AND a face shield (or better yet, a welding helmet with a clear lense). Eye injuries are the #1 injury with grinders! Brush off your face shield and your hair (cap) with your eyes closed. The crap clings to everything.
5. Wear a particle respirator, the disk material is bad for your lungs as well as much of the material you grind.
6. Wear good heavy clothes with no loose material. Hoody strings and the like love to tangle up in grinders. Wire wheels will snag on almost anything. Canvas shirts of the Carhart variety are the way to go. Fuzzy material gathers sparks and grit and lights on fire much easier. NEVER EVER WEAR NYLON while cutting welding or grinding.
7. Use the edge of the disk. Using the face wears down the disk into the reinforcement and when that is worn through pieces of the disk can come off much easier. If you use the face pay attention the the wear and discard when the reinforcement shows. If the edge thins turn it to something and grind until the edge is no longer thinned into the reinforcement.
7a. NEVER use the face of an .045 or 1/16 disk!
8. Avoid dropping, pinching or binding the disk. These can cause cracks and catastrophic failure. They can also cause kick back and result in lose of control.
9. Keep a firm grip on the grinder, especially while cutting, that side handle is your friend. USE it.
10. When cutting with a thin disk don't force it or use much pressure. Light pressure will aid control the disk will last much longer and do more cutting. STRAIGHT LINES ONLY
11. Watch where you are going to shoot your sparks. They will start fires and injure other people.
12. Wear leather gloves while grinding. NOT welding gloves, they are to clumsy and impede your grip. While I am infamous for not wearing gloves and have stated to safety guys that the skin on my hands is in effect heavily tanned hide, a pair of leather gloves will slow down and minimize the injury if the disks contacts you. Gloves do prevent minor injuries. In the case of major boo boos they just keep most of the pieces in one place.
A 4 1/2 grinder is a great tool used properly. It is no more dangerous than the other tools we use. Every power tool you use has the ability to maim you if you get careless. I have spent 40 years in heavy industry, oil drilling rigs, refineries, commercial fishing and bridge construction and even some knife making. I still have all my parts and most of them still work fairly well.
Knock on wood.
PS. A lot of that was due to fast reaction time when I was younger, as you get older and see what can happen you should make much better decisions.
Let me also state that you will get much more material cut per $ with a good portaband and good blades than with a grinder. Hardened material of course changes this heavily to the grinders favor. I get most of my disk grinder supplies (and portaband blades) in the form of big oil rebates. Most of the time we are expected to supply our own grinders. but, are handed disks and blades by the box and not expected to return them. We don't.
Here are some basic safety rules.
1. Make sure the disk is designed for your grinder. Pay attention that the max speed of the grinder does not exceed that of the disk. If the disk vibrates DO NOT USE IT
2. Make sure the disk is properly mounted and secured with the proper backing plate and nut.
3. Keep the guard on and positioned between you and the disk.
4. Wear safety glasses AND a face shield (or better yet, a welding helmet with a clear lense). Eye injuries are the #1 injury with grinders! Brush off your face shield and your hair (cap) with your eyes closed. The crap clings to everything.
5. Wear a particle respirator, the disk material is bad for your lungs as well as much of the material you grind.
6. Wear good heavy clothes with no loose material. Hoody strings and the like love to tangle up in grinders. Wire wheels will snag on almost anything. Canvas shirts of the Carhart variety are the way to go. Fuzzy material gathers sparks and grit and lights on fire much easier. NEVER EVER WEAR NYLON while cutting welding or grinding.
7. Use the edge of the disk. Using the face wears down the disk into the reinforcement and when that is worn through pieces of the disk can come off much easier. If you use the face pay attention the the wear and discard when the reinforcement shows. If the edge thins turn it to something and grind until the edge is no longer thinned into the reinforcement.
7a. NEVER use the face of an .045 or 1/16 disk!
8. Avoid dropping, pinching or binding the disk. These can cause cracks and catastrophic failure. They can also cause kick back and result in lose of control.
9. Keep a firm grip on the grinder, especially while cutting, that side handle is your friend. USE it.
10. When cutting with a thin disk don't force it or use much pressure. Light pressure will aid control the disk will last much longer and do more cutting. STRAIGHT LINES ONLY
11. Watch where you are going to shoot your sparks. They will start fires and injure other people.
12. Wear leather gloves while grinding. NOT welding gloves, they are to clumsy and impede your grip. While I am infamous for not wearing gloves and have stated to safety guys that the skin on my hands is in effect heavily tanned hide, a pair of leather gloves will slow down and minimize the injury if the disks contacts you. Gloves do prevent minor injuries. In the case of major boo boos they just keep most of the pieces in one place.
A 4 1/2 grinder is a great tool used properly. It is no more dangerous than the other tools we use. Every power tool you use has the ability to maim you if you get careless. I have spent 40 years in heavy industry, oil drilling rigs, refineries, commercial fishing and bridge construction and even some knife making. I still have all my parts and most of them still work fairly well.
Knock on wood. PS. A lot of that was due to fast reaction time when I was younger, as you get older and see what can happen you should make much better decisions.
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Thanks, Jim.
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Amen to that, brother. When I was younger I was convinced I could rely on my reflexes. That was stupid of course, but God sometimes protects fools, as he did me. Now I do my best to protect myself.
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Great post Jim! I think that should be in a sticky.
I have a friend that lost ALL of his front teeth when a disc blew up in his face back when he work at Les Sw tires. The Docs said he was extremely lucky the main fragments hit him in the teeth, a couple inches in any direction and they would have zipped right through his head!!!
Sam, my pdf reader must be old or different than yours- because the page numbers are coming up on mine about 2 pages off from yours. Weird!
And FWIW- the max rpm on that little DeWalt is 12,000 rpm. But I do 100% agree with the notion to MAKE SURE your max disc/wheel rpm rating does not exceed your grinder's max rpm!
Angle grinders are great tools... but they can literally rip your guts out, slice your face up, and take off fingers.... if you don't understand AND respect how they work. Be careful!!!
I have a friend that lost ALL of his front teeth when a disc blew up in his face back when he work at Les Sw tires. The Docs said he was extremely lucky the main fragments hit him in the teeth, a couple inches in any direction and they would have zipped right through his head!!!
Sam, my pdf reader must be old or different than yours- because the page numbers are coming up on mine about 2 pages off from yours. Weird!
And FWIW- the max rpm on that little DeWalt is 12,000 rpm. But I do 100% agree with the notion to MAKE SURE your max disc/wheel rpm rating does not exceed your grinder's max rpm!
Angle grinders are great tools... but they can literally rip your guts out, slice your face up, and take off fingers.... if you don't understand AND respect how they work. Be careful!!!
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Messages
- 20,420
Great post Jim! I think that should be in a sticky.
I have a friend that lost ALL of his front teeth when a disc blew up in his face back when he work at Les Sw tires. The Docs said he was extremely lucky the main fragments hit him in the teeth, a couple inches in any direction and they would have zipped right through his head!!!
Sam, my pdf reader must be old or different than yours- because the page numbers are coming up on mine about 2 pages off from yours. Weird!
And FWIW- the max rpm on that little DeWalt is 12,000 rpm. But I do 100% agree with the notion to MAKE SURE your max disc/wheel rpm rating does not exceed your grinder's max rpm!
Angle grinders are great tools... but they can literally rip your guts out, slice your face up, and take off fingers.... if you don't understand AND respect how they work. Be careful!!!
I agree, some of this thread should be worked into a safety sticky.
Re the adobe, maybe, I get an update message daily, update it daily and it still shows as having a problem...
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- 3,375
Well, there are somethings going on with grinders that many never think about. The rpms are high and that means the speed of the outside of the disk is high. At 12000rpm the outside edge of a 4 1/2 disk is going over 160mph. The centrifugal force is tremendous and if the disk fails the pieces are going to be leaving at near the speed of an archery arrow. Not good to be anywhere in the area.
Also these high rpms cause a gyro effect that causes the grinder to resist changes in the disks plane especially with a heavier disk. Try a 1/4" thick 9" disk and you will surely notice this effect. Also if the disk is suddenly seized by binding or pinching the amount of momentum that is suddenly transferred to the grinder is high. When you "angle" grind. as apposed to using just the edge straight on, the edge will eventually become very thin and sharp. If that edge contacts you it will slice through you like a finely serrated knife blade going at that 160+ MPH. Not only that the edge has now worn through the reinforcement and if even little pieces start coming off they are going near as fast as BBs. You can prevent this by watching the edge and when it thins turn the edge onto a piece of scrap and wear that thin edge off until it is healthy again.
For an idea of how much force is going on in these things and what can happen. One evening while getting undresses I felt something drag as I removed my jeans. I found a metal sliver in my thigh and when I tried to pull it out it didn't come. Got a better grip and pulled several inches of wire from a wire wheel from my leg. The end had worn to a very sharp point and when it came out of the wheel it has flew through the air straight enough to go through my jeans and nearly bury itself in my leg. KEEP THE GUARD ON and DON'T US WORN EQUIPMENT. That wire could have hit higher and more centered in my "special area"
I much prefer the grinders with the paddle switch. I want my thumb helping control the grinder, not holding a switch. The new paddles have a little toggle in them. Leave it alone don't take it off. You will get used to it and your finger will trip it automatically when you want to turn on the grinder. Before this was added it was easy to lay the grinder down on the switch and have it come on, bump it or set something on it and have it come on. We used to stick the cord between the paddle and the grinder as a safety when setting them down. Once in Alaska in the winter working on pipe I was wearing a sweater on top of everything and got a wire wheel to close. It grabbed the sweater and jerked out of my hand as it balled up in the sweater. I panicked and grabbed it and as it has the old style switch, guess what, I turned it back on and balled it up tighter and harder against me. Had enough clothes on to prevent injury, but, it was a lesson learned.
I have know a guy who ended up with a 9" grinder in his face and he was not a pretty boy anymore (no face shield and working under the grinder), a guy who had a chunk come off a 4 1/2 that went into his thigh and he near bled to death (no guard and damaged disk). I an numerous co-workers have had crap removed from our eyes. IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE STEEL STUCK IN YOUR EYE, go to the Dr right away, it will begin to form a rust ring that will have to be removed if not taken out in less than 24 hours. Take it from me it is no fun setting up with the Dr to hold your eye open and still while her takes his little bur and grinds it off the surface of your eye, no mater now much he deadens your eye and the thrill of watching the world jiggle as he does it is something you do not want to experience. I promise! When I work now I am a foreman or general foreman and one of my duties is a daily safety meeting. We get bulletins world wide from the industry. The vast majority of grinder incidents are wrong disk, no guard and improper eye/face protection. You wouldn't believe some of the ways people get hurt. What is amazing is how many serious injuries occur from simple things. More people get hurt walking than grinding. I know we walk more than grind, but most of it is pure lack of attention.
OK, little humor. We are having a monthly safety meeting and the safety guy is going on about hand injuries and how many occur. One of the guys says well of course we hurt out hands, we work with them constantly. Guess what would get hurt if we were porn stars.
Also these high rpms cause a gyro effect that causes the grinder to resist changes in the disks plane especially with a heavier disk. Try a 1/4" thick 9" disk and you will surely notice this effect. Also if the disk is suddenly seized by binding or pinching the amount of momentum that is suddenly transferred to the grinder is high. When you "angle" grind. as apposed to using just the edge straight on, the edge will eventually become very thin and sharp. If that edge contacts you it will slice through you like a finely serrated knife blade going at that 160+ MPH. Not only that the edge has now worn through the reinforcement and if even little pieces start coming off they are going near as fast as BBs. You can prevent this by watching the edge and when it thins turn the edge onto a piece of scrap and wear that thin edge off until it is healthy again.
For an idea of how much force is going on in these things and what can happen. One evening while getting undresses I felt something drag as I removed my jeans. I found a metal sliver in my thigh and when I tried to pull it out it didn't come. Got a better grip and pulled several inches of wire from a wire wheel from my leg. The end had worn to a very sharp point and when it came out of the wheel it has flew through the air straight enough to go through my jeans and nearly bury itself in my leg. KEEP THE GUARD ON and DON'T US WORN EQUIPMENT. That wire could have hit higher and more centered in my "special area"
I much prefer the grinders with the paddle switch. I want my thumb helping control the grinder, not holding a switch. The new paddles have a little toggle in them. Leave it alone don't take it off. You will get used to it and your finger will trip it automatically when you want to turn on the grinder. Before this was added it was easy to lay the grinder down on the switch and have it come on, bump it or set something on it and have it come on. We used to stick the cord between the paddle and the grinder as a safety when setting them down. Once in Alaska in the winter working on pipe I was wearing a sweater on top of everything and got a wire wheel to close. It grabbed the sweater and jerked out of my hand as it balled up in the sweater. I panicked and grabbed it and as it has the old style switch, guess what, I turned it back on and balled it up tighter and harder against me. Had enough clothes on to prevent injury, but, it was a lesson learned.
I have know a guy who ended up with a 9" grinder in his face and he was not a pretty boy anymore (no face shield and working under the grinder), a guy who had a chunk come off a 4 1/2 that went into his thigh and he near bled to death (no guard and damaged disk). I an numerous co-workers have had crap removed from our eyes. IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE STEEL STUCK IN YOUR EYE, go to the Dr right away, it will begin to form a rust ring that will have to be removed if not taken out in less than 24 hours. Take it from me it is no fun setting up with the Dr to hold your eye open and still while her takes his little bur and grinds it off the surface of your eye, no mater now much he deadens your eye and the thrill of watching the world jiggle as he does it is something you do not want to experience. I promise! When I work now I am a foreman or general foreman and one of my duties is a daily safety meeting. We get bulletins world wide from the industry. The vast majority of grinder incidents are wrong disk, no guard and improper eye/face protection. You wouldn't believe some of the ways people get hurt. What is amazing is how many serious injuries occur from simple things. More people get hurt walking than grinding. I know we walk more than grind, but most of it is pure lack of attention.
OK, little humor. We are having a monthly safety meeting and the safety guy is going on about hand injuries and how many occur. One of the guys says well of course we hurt out hands, we work with them constantly. Guess what would get hurt if we were porn stars.
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since this has turned into a safety thread... there are other alternatives to an angle grinder too... an older circular saw with an all metal gaurd works great with a metal cutting disk... provides almost complete protection and as long as you don't disable the gaurds at all then it'll keep most of the sparks contained... granted its best for straight cuts only... but it works... just another option...
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The kick back zone thing.
Part of that is how you approach the work with the wheel. Wire wheels are really bad about kicking especially when it an edge wrong. One way the edge of the wheel will pull you in and the other away. You will have the most problems with this when you attack the edge of the work. Also remember you can turn the grinder over. If I go to cut something like a piece of 12" stainless pipe or plate that is say 3/8" thick I will mark out my line(s) and then with the bottom part of the disk spinning toward me (wearing good clothes and eye protection and my head well above the cut) I will carefully groove the line(s) then follow the groove(s) keeping the depth fairly uniform and going deeper with every pass. Dropping through or starting on an edge and having a lot of disk through the cut is not a good practice. If I have say 1" of disk below the bottom of the material I am cutting I will have a length (cord of the circle) of 3" or more inches of the disk buried through the material. This causes face wear, binding if not perfectly aligned etc etc. If I only have the disk 3/8" deep in the 3/8" material I have a length of less than 1" in the material. My disk will last longer and cut more with less trouble. I also use a very light pressure and let the disk cut on its own. I have cut and fit 24" stainless pipe in this manner and you can be very precise(maybe a dozen or more 5" disks per pipe). After the pipes are beveled to a knife edge and gapped to about 5/32 you really want the gap very uniform all the way around so that the welder can easily bridge the gap and have a uniform root weld on the inside of the pipe. In some ways it is better than free handing the cut with a plasma. Less clean up and less worry about a shake causing a boo boo on a piece of VERY expensive pipe. Best way is a clamp on Tri tool beveler that is air powered and as it goes around it clicks its cutter down a notch every revolution. Kind of a portable lathe or Okie beveler that straps on the pipe and holds a plasma torch and you crank a handle to make it move. They are expensive and they probably won't bring one in for a couple cuts. Plus, the beveler only fits one pipe size and the Okie may fit 3 pipe sizes.
I am not going to do the groove thing if only cutting less than an inch into a piece from the edge, but, i would still angle down from the top instead of going straight in from the edge. Longer cuts I will always grove down as much as possible.
Part of that is how you approach the work with the wheel. Wire wheels are really bad about kicking especially when it an edge wrong. One way the edge of the wheel will pull you in and the other away. You will have the most problems with this when you attack the edge of the work. Also remember you can turn the grinder over. If I go to cut something like a piece of 12" stainless pipe or plate that is say 3/8" thick I will mark out my line(s) and then with the bottom part of the disk spinning toward me (wearing good clothes and eye protection and my head well above the cut) I will carefully groove the line(s) then follow the groove(s) keeping the depth fairly uniform and going deeper with every pass. Dropping through or starting on an edge and having a lot of disk through the cut is not a good practice. If I have say 1" of disk below the bottom of the material I am cutting I will have a length (cord of the circle) of 3" or more inches of the disk buried through the material. This causes face wear, binding if not perfectly aligned etc etc. If I only have the disk 3/8" deep in the 3/8" material I have a length of less than 1" in the material. My disk will last longer and cut more with less trouble. I also use a very light pressure and let the disk cut on its own. I have cut and fit 24" stainless pipe in this manner and you can be very precise(maybe a dozen or more 5" disks per pipe). After the pipes are beveled to a knife edge and gapped to about 5/32 you really want the gap very uniform all the way around so that the welder can easily bridge the gap and have a uniform root weld on the inside of the pipe. In some ways it is better than free handing the cut with a plasma. Less clean up and less worry about a shake causing a boo boo on a piece of VERY expensive pipe. Best way is a clamp on Tri tool beveler that is air powered and as it goes around it clicks its cutter down a notch every revolution. Kind of a portable lathe or Okie beveler that straps on the pipe and holds a plasma torch and you crank a handle to make it move. They are expensive and they probably won't bring one in for a couple cuts. Plus, the beveler only fits one pipe size and the Okie may fit 3 pipe sizes.
I am not going to do the groove thing if only cutting less than an inch into a piece from the edge, but, i would still angle down from the top instead of going straight in from the edge. Longer cuts I will always grove down as much as possible.
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Brian.Evans
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I guess I have only two things to say:
1. A portaband works so much better and faster for cutting out blades. And angle iron. And steel rod stock. And PVC pipe. And........well, you understand. I burnt through two 1/16" discs and got two inches into the angle. My portaband cut 8 cuts through 5/16" 4"x4" angle like a hot knife in butter. And the blade is still good.
2. If you take the guard off an angle grinder, you WILL eventually get cut/burnt. It will happen. I promise. And it will hurt, and you will bleed. Hopefully it will be minor, but it could be life changing.
Working with steel and machine tools is safe until you forget how dangerous it really is.
1. A portaband works so much better and faster for cutting out blades. And angle iron. And steel rod stock. And PVC pipe. And........well, you understand. I burnt through two 1/16" discs and got two inches into the angle. My portaband cut 8 cuts through 5/16" 4"x4" angle like a hot knife in butter. And the blade is still good.
2. If you take the guard off an angle grinder, you WILL eventually get cut/burnt. It will happen. I promise. And it will hurt, and you will bleed. Hopefully it will be minor, but it could be life changing.
Working with steel and machine tools is safe until you forget how dangerous it really is.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Added to the Safety Sticky.
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Thank you, I am honored to contribute and pay back to the forum.
Medicevans, while I agree a portaband is superior for many applications, an angle grinder has its place. It is superior on hardened material, tight spots and also very thin material. If you burned a couple disks and only got a couple inches into some angle it was either very very heavy angle or you are not using it right. I bet I can cut 4" of 1/2" steel with one .045 disk. Keep the pressure down, the cut straight and uniform depth
Medicevans, while I agree a portaband is superior for many applications, an angle grinder has its place. It is superior on hardened material, tight spots and also very thin material. If you burned a couple disks and only got a couple inches into some angle it was either very very heavy angle or you are not using it right. I bet I can cut 4" of 1/2" steel with one .045 disk. Keep the pressure down, the cut straight and uniform depth
Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice and safety tips. I found it useful and hope other will be able to use the information in the future. As for my problem I have been able to get the grinder working properly. Nick happened to be right I guess I must have missed the 1/4 because all I had seen was "This side against wheel." 
oops?
oops?
Nathan the Machinist
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Excellent contribution Jim. I learned quite a bit just now, thanks.
synthesist
So many knives so little time
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I just re-read this for the 4th time...................... and then copied and printed relevant parts to stick in with my 4 1/2" grinder. Not many tools scare me but I have great respect for my handheld grinders, my buffer, my drillpress and my woodworking tablesaw.
I have enough safety glasses and faceshields spread around to never be more then a couple of feet from one.
This post made a SERIOUS impression on me.
Thank you Jim.
Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
I have enough safety glasses and faceshields spread around to never be more then a couple of feet from one.
This post made a SERIOUS impression on me.
Thank you Jim.
Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
My ridgid 4.5" angle grinder is 10000 rpm.
Awesome thread.
Thank you, Stacy and Jim for the cautions- I amputated part of a finger in a moment of wandering attention with one of these, doing something very similar. I've been using that tool for over twenty years, and then one day....
1: clamp your work piece in a vice
2: wear sturdy gloves
3: brace yourself and make sure you're standing so that you can resist a sudden pull from the grinder.
I was wearing light leather gloves when the accident happened, and when the thin steel jammed in the grinding wheel, it went through the leather AND my finger like they weren't there- I feel that a welding glove would have probably slowed it down enough to merely mangle and not chop.
That said, I only use a cutoff wheel now when I'm standing comfortably and well balanced and feel I can somewhat control it.
Thank you, Stacy and Jim for the cautions- I amputated part of a finger in a moment of wandering attention with one of these, doing something very similar. I've been using that tool for over twenty years, and then one day....
1: clamp your work piece in a vice
2: wear sturdy gloves
3: brace yourself and make sure you're standing so that you can resist a sudden pull from the grinder.
I was wearing light leather gloves when the accident happened, and when the thin steel jammed in the grinding wheel, it went through the leather AND my finger like they weren't there- I feel that a welding glove would have probably slowed it down enough to merely mangle and not chop.
That said, I only use a cutoff wheel now when I'm standing comfortably and well balanced and feel I can somewhat control it.
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