Angus Trim Tactical Swords.

M

madscientist

Joined
May 12, 2000
Messages
309
Just curious if anyone has purchased any of these/thoughts/Reviews? Toughness, edge retention, cutting...

I especially like the "little Tigress" and the leaf blade tactical, but that could just be me. And yes, I'm considering it as a gun back up, but then I consider damn near everything as a backup of one sort or another :)

Here's the website, if no one's seen them

http://www.angustrimdirect.com/tacswords.htm

Thanks
Mike
 
Do you have a pic of the Jin, Tony? I'm trying to decide between one of the one's I've mentioned and a Crisswell "Ninja"
 
Try the site now. Gus just did an update. The Gim is very close to the Jianin appearance.
 
They look durable but a bit goofy looking. I wouldn't care to use that kind of jian for taijijian work, but I suppose it's a step up quality-wise from tourist stuff you find in Shanghai...if a step down in terms of design (blade and overall design).

It's an alternative to the Hanwei stuff, and it's nice to have alternatives. Would be cool to have an upper-end option here or there though!
 
Robert Marotz said:
They look durable but a bit goofy looking. I wouldn't care to use that kind of jian for taijijian work, but I suppose it's a step up quality-wise from tourist stuff you find in Shanghai...if a step down in terms of design (blade and overall design).
Click to expand...
I have a Huanuo Monosteel Carp Jian that I'm currently using. Will be ordering a Zheng Wu soon. My ATrim Tac Jian will not stay as is. The handles will be given a cord wrap. And from speaking to Gus, who is a Tai Chi practioner, it's heavy enough for intense form work. Plus, the ability to actually cut helps. Unless you were thinking more along the lines of the morning excercises?
 
No I am just relating more to antique swords and their design and how the Trim swords really don't bear much resemblance at all (and I'm not even talking about fittings). Millions of people practice taiji in some form or another, many of them do a little sword. Most have become accustomed to the light flimsy-floppies, and there's a [very slow] movement away from that among certain circles of practitioners. I just wish there would be a nice middle-ground between quality contemporary redesign and mediocre traditional design. Something like a good traditionalesque sword on the high-end. Japanese swords have enjoyed this sort of thing...not sure why Chinese swords don't (other than the fact most taijijian guys don't wanna spend more then $20 usd on a practice sword).

I offered to go do some analysis of nice Ming and Qing swords here in Taiwan for a few North American makers back in 2004, but I didn't get around to it when I had the chance; and this time around I haven't had much opportunity (nor has anyone really seemed to care about that kind of data).
 
The deviation from the traditional form is very much intentional with this line. Gus never intended it to be anything more than hard use models bearing similar lines to their inspirations. As for Taichi sword use, The market is just not there. I'm about the only one that takes it to cutting practise within my circle of friends. One has purchased a CS Gim (a Huanou product) and hopefully will be joining me. Nothing like slicing up rolled up tatami mats.
 
Re: Robert Marotz
Actually, from what I understand, Gus is a ardent practicioner of the sword arts (Chinese Taiji and some European ones I can't spell) and associates pretty often also with other martial artists in JSA and FMA styles....

As mentioned, this line is a deviation away from the traditional, and more towards the "tactical" styling. Something not seen often in swords IMO (at least, compared to knives). Barry Dawson and several notable others did make some interesting large blades though.

He has expressed interest in making a jian several times, but since he machines from 5160 in general and makes good wooden handles (sometimes wrapped with leather), it would look "untraditional" and since there's a large number of suppliers (though possibly from forges related to each other) that get their stuff from China the competition and apparent disdain for "non-traditional" jian would make it unworthwhile.

Plus, as you mentioned, most taiji (and wushu for that matter) practioners have gotten used to flimsy or more convenient (telescopic) materials.
 
I remember a few years back when he was new to swordmaking, he said he used his [early] model of the 15th century riding sword for taiji for a while. He later mentioned using another style, though I don't remember which. I am an iconoclast by nature, but I have had to accept futility and so decided to leave some related forums when the fan clubs for certain makers got out of control. I suppose it was also related to me moving out of country and spending less time on all major forums (including this one). :D

He and I have had some disagreements in the past but I have no real disrespect for him. Many people like his stuff and that's what matters. If only I was that courteous to Phil Hartsfield and Jerry Hossom and other makers in days past. I guess we all have room to learn and grow :)

並非後來居上
則是各有千秋

Addendum: Also, I've talked to several well-known makers who expressed an interest (or intention) in making Chinese sword models akin to a high-end "practical" practice sword. Most such plans seem to have been dissolved, put on the backburner, or have been slow-going. I stopped talking to smiths mostly back in late 2004, if that says anything about the progress of said plans. It'd be cool to see some come to fruition, but as it was said before...the enthusiast market just isn't the same as it is for other styles.
 
Tom Maringer made a Jian back in the day. SS hardware with SS wire wrap handles. Pricey, but I would've bought it if I had the money.
 
i wonder the same thing as Robert...it's too bad that Chinese jian are not as popular as Japanese swords. i too am in search of the ultimate jian for practice (form, cutting, and applications). for now my carp jian suffices for practice.
 
gator68 said:
You can buy his more "traditional" swords with a longer guard. He also supplies blades for Christian Fletcher.
Click to expand...

Christian Fletcher is actually the main retailer/order point for Gus' stuff now. The ony swords Gus is actually selling directly at this point is the tactical line. Lee Reeves, of Lee's Armoury does sell some certain runs of stuff and Darkwood Armoury is still doing some work up on blades (when he can get em). The Angus Trim Direct site is really just a photo catalog/archive for the non-tactical stuff. The tactical stuff seems to have been a combination of motivations but he has run each and every one up the flagpole for comment, over at SFI.

I am not so much a vocal fanboy of his stuff but do have a couple of longer medieval types that are quite good, for what they are. Really rather outstanding value at where the market was/is. As a raw blade source, he really lacks for very little. Albion and Arms & Armor may be aesthetically more pleasing at base line level but they are a bit pricier.
Gus' stuff does handle quite well, even most of the earlier stuff.

I say view the tactical line as exactly what appearances speak of them. They aren't going to appeal to all. I think he somewhat underestimated what else is out there in the market and that it may well be a lower key effort than originally projected. Especially with less than sword length blades, I think he'll find the market a tough one.

Cheers

GC
 
Robert has kinda summed up my view on these swords. If you take the "Little Tigress" as an example, for instance. The sword is kinda goofy looking...it might balance and cut like a bandit but it looks like something a Mall Ninja might rave about. :barf:

Then again, what does one expect for $400? If someone wants a purely utilitarian whacker then this is a nice upgrade from what is commonly available. In 5160 steel I'm sure it is durable beyond reasonable expectations. I'm a big fan of "tactical" styled swords and such but these are a little too utilitarian and the big lugs as guards/hand protection destroy the profile for me personally.

I expected more out of Gus, frankly. But if he can make them sufficently available in the $400 price range I'm sure they will sell like hot cakes in the short term...maybe there will be some upgrades available as options if they begin to move a bit like a wrapped handle, no guard lugs (or even an actual guard of some sort), wooden slabs to replace the plastic ones, and such.

It'll be interesting to see where this goes for Gus.

Brian
 
Vorpal Blade said:
I was hoping the Tac Cuttoe would have at least a D guard as hand protection. Evidently it's not to be.
Click to expand...

Gus was pretty clear about making these pretty simple. I would actually not want a d guard on even a historically accurate cuttoe. Maybe you are thinking of a cutlass.

When I think cuttoe, I'm kind of thinking along these lines
http://www.ambroseantiques.com/images/swords/germancuttoe1.JPG
http://www.150.si.edu/150trav/remember/r211a.jpg
http://www.150.si.edu/images/4swrd.jpg


As far as I know, the only options were to be some variation in handle materials. There was a lot of talk about the lugs. I think the bottom line was it wasn't really negotiable but they could always be ground off. It went from a stage when he was getting pestered a lot about design modification and basically said "not subject to debate"; to fielding interest for various offerings.

~~~~~

The Lil Tigress was actually the one that struck me as maybe nice to have around for mat cutting. I don't know if it is still the prototype he has pictured. He was going to update the handle profile a bit. I'm not sure where he latched onto the lugs but there was also a project conceived by Adrian Ko and Gus that incorporates them as well. Both that and this tactical line are, in part, to benefit Genise Graham. Some of the proceeds go to help with her ongoing health issues.

The other impetus for Gus to do these was also a bit inspired by others, like Criswell, that have been making good and basic cutters for some time.

Brian, I know you have kind of sworn off SFI but all the particulars of the projects are there. I was a bit suprised to see Randal take his boards down but admit to have not been following that one much. I still use your pictures of the busted Hanwei Godfred blade on a regular basis. Thanks again for your help on that.

Cheers

GC
 
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