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Another Blackbird down(updated-got replacement)
- Thread starter Tbaggin
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Yes, and I can't prove my experiences as "evidence", just report about them.
The fact are that the above shown Golok chipped in the same way, with a 5/8" long and 5/32" deep halfmoon chip.
I was chopping down a 2,5" thick dead peartree.
The root was somewhat loose in the soil and the tree flexed under the impact of the swing.
The wood was dry and hard, so the edge got stuck, the tree flexed and snap!
The edge was chipped!
I sent the knife back to Bark River under warranty (32 dollars international shipping).
The verdict: It was ground too thin.
So they made a regrind into a new thicker edge and sent the knife back at their expence (another 32 dollar trip).
This is a few years ago and the knife was put back into service.
It is a 1/2 oz lighter and 5/32" lower in profile, but it works way better than before the chip.
There has been no issues with the heat-treatment and the edge hold up great for full impact chops, hour after hour.
My conclusion is that Mike was right, it was too thin in the edge for a chopper.
Regards
Mikael
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Too thin in the edge at that hardness at least. 
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Too thin in the edge at that hardness at least.
Yes and it's made of 1095 and has RC 58.
A softer blade or A2 steel would have bent rather than chip.
At Rc 58 and with the new thicker edge geometry, the knife both hold the edge and chops well in Sycomore Maple.
Regards
Mikael
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This is somewhat discouraging given I've just ordered one
You'll love it, just take care when impact is involved
MikaelW, you've sold me on the golok. In A2!!!
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Ok, You will find it to be a fine tool in Your work with the Trails!
Another one worth to mention is the Fiskars garden cutter.
View attachment 339101
For those small branches in awkward positions, it's perfect in making space for a good swing with the chopper.
Regards
Mikael
You're right. The knife arrived and it's beautiful
I think I understand why it may not be robust enough for batoning as it seems to taper from the back to the cutting edge. It's designed to be a cutting tool and not for hard batoning. Still, I'd say it was thick enough for outdoor use. I am also very impressed with the quality. I found no flaws so far.
EDITED TO ADD: My education here continues. FFG=full flat ground, which is what I was trying to describe.
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You're right. The knife arrived and it's beautiful
I think I understand why it may not be robust enough for batoning as it seems to taper from the back to the cutting edge. It's designed to be a cutting tool and not for hard batoning. Still, I'd say it was thick enough for outdoor use. I am also very impressed with the quality. I found no flaws so far.
EDITED TO ADD: My education here continues. FFG=full flat ground, which is what I was trying to describe.
It'll still split small stuff into kindling and makes great tinder, feather sticks etc..
I agree with quality, that 154cm sure shines! Only thing I could change is the scales, I wish they put more time into the grip(blocky)
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Haven't heard anything yet Ultraman, they should have received the damaged blade already. I'm assuming that they have shipped a new blade or sent the old one back and it's only a matter of waiting for delivery to me. I plan on an update as soon as I get an answer or knife!
-T
-T
Many thanks, Tbaggin!
TwinStick said:
It's not a bad heat treat, it's the wrong tool for the job. Some knives aren't made for chopping. I had the same thing happen with a thin edged big knife.
I just got one myself, they're beautiful tools, and have incredible balance (the balance point is like a half inch in front of the handle, somehow). You can get them in 6 different tip configurations. DLT Trading and The Knife Connection are the only places I found who still have clip point and upswept tip configurations in stock (they're inbetween batches, when they release a batch you can find anything you want, then it dries up for a while).
Mine has the Upswept tip and red linen micarta handles:
It's not efficient usage, but the blade shouldn't have broken. That story about wood "grabbing" and the comparison to axes is just Internet silliness: it has no real source and doesn't make sense - how HARD can wood grab? Shouldn't correctly treated steel flex rather than break? (Yes and yes, and if you want to actually know something about axes read http://www.orionn49.com/choosing_an_axe.htm)
The most likely cause is bad heat treat.
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Says the Expert!
Please feel free to share Your personal experience with us.
So far I'm not impressed, but the link about axes has proper info!
Regards
Mikael
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Can someone post some measurements of the blade? 1/8" thick and ffg is posted. How wide is the blade? How thick is it at the top of the edge bevel?
There is just enough information on heat treatment out there now to be dangerous. Bad heat treat gets blamed for everything from broken tips to pregnant teenagers now.
There is just enough information on heat treatment out there now to be dangerous. Bad heat treat gets blamed for everything from broken tips to pregnant teenagers now.
This is utter bs. It's something that people who don't really use knives have convinced themselves of on the Internet with aid of ass covering inferior knife makers. Machetes are quite capable of chopping hard wood and they have thin edges. You might not have heard of them, but billhooks are the traditional tools for limbing in most temperate countries and often largely replace axes - and billhooks do NOT have axe geometry! Traditional parangs often have very thin edges and blades - Condor make their idiot proof for noobs but a lot of eg Valiant Parangs are very fine. Even axe heads vary more than you think, and when they are solid wedges it isn't for the reason that you imagine. And the state of the art custom large choppers that makers like Gavkoo and CKC are making are very fine edged:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY2qMxddso0
All these of blades work perfectly well. And when good steel is too thin then it will ROLL rather than chip. Your BKRT didn't because one of their notorious sins is blowing the heat treat on the edge by grinding too fast and getting the metal too hot. (In which they are hardly alone, to be fair to them.)
I've chopped all day with thin edges on pretty damn cheap steel and not had an edge need anything more than a touch up. I doubt that Ontario will say anything other than "Someone messed up on this knife."
This is appalling logic. That a knife isn't designed for chopping doesn't mean it should self destruct this way! Small blades should actually be extremely hard to damage in chopping because you can't get much energy in the impact; only the more scalpel-like should at risk, and even they should have the edge roll rather than break. That good steel has this failure mode instead of fracturing is the one of the main reasons we use it instead of obsidian - which is rust proof and has an RC of about 87.
Here's an F1 chopping: wearing on the arm, but not on the knife:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btUQkq0T_cY
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meanwhile
Nice language there!
A machete edge isn't thin compared with OP's knife!
It is also softer and thus becomes tougher.
When a thin and hard edge get stuck in wood that bends away, You get a breaking load that causes halfmoon chips!
If the edge is thin but tough it bends instead of chip.
I have seen both things happen to my knives and in differrent steels.
When the edge has been reground into a thicker edge geometry, the problems with halfmoon chips have stopped.
Maybe my Golok was getting too hot on the grinder, maybe not.
I can't tell that, Mike Stewart can't tell that and definitely You meanwhile, can't tell that!
Nevertheless the Golok performs as it should and it feels better to use now than before the chip.
The Bark River crew did a good job on the warranty regrind and the heat-treatment leaves nothing more to wish.
It has proven to be the tool I expected!
Regards
Mikael
Nice language there!
A machete edge isn't thin compared with OP's knife!
It is also softer and thus becomes tougher.
When a thin and hard edge get stuck in wood that bends away, You get a breaking load that causes halfmoon chips!
If the edge is thin but tough it bends instead of chip.
I have seen both things happen to my knives and in differrent steels.
When the edge has been reground into a thicker edge geometry, the problems with halfmoon chips have stopped.
Maybe my Golok was getting too hot on the grinder, maybe not.
I can't tell that, Mike Stewart can't tell that and definitely You meanwhile, can't tell that!
Nevertheless the Golok performs as it should and it feels better to use now than before the chip.
The Bark River crew did a good job on the warranty regrind and the heat-treatment leaves nothing more to wish.
It has proven to be the tool I expected!
Regards
Mikael
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