Another Honor Student Suspended for knife in her car.

What about constitution rights? Freedom to bear arms/steak knives! Damm ridiculous laws/rules. Makes you wonder what this world is coming to! Just recently heard a local story by me about kids on a soccer trip that got caught with beer on the overnite. They were all suppended for the rest of the semester. Damm glad those laws weren't in place when I was a kid. Would of never graduated high school and to think that these are the people that are intrusted in teaching our children values! Kids will be kids! Need to learn. Doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling! Those who can , can! Those who can't teach!
 
I e-mailed the school district and complained, I suggest others do it too. It could be one of our kids next.

Jake
 
Automantic,
I can see where your coming from, but this is where I'm coming from. Ohio is 3rd for the most gang activity in the the US. Hilliard Darby the school that I go to is supposed to have one of the highest anmounts of gang activity for Ohio. We have police officers posted all day everyday. I can garauntee that there are kids bringing weapons to school. How would you like to get shot? is a routione threat to be heard when 2 people are a little upset with each other.But no one has gotten in trouble yet. I can't bring a knife or multi tool to school even in my truck legally for utility use only,because there is a chance that seomeone else will use it as a weapon. Weapons are coming to school anyway so obviously zero tolerance isn't working. Common sense would be better. There has to be guidelines but not an outright ban on everything. When you do that, the only people who have weapons are the ones who want to use them as weapons and don't care about the rules. Its the same idea with guns. Hardly anyone can legally carry a gun in public. But the criminals have them because they don't care about the laws. So the people who aren't doing anyhitng wrong are helpless.There would be a hell of a lot less hostage situations if the would be victims had weapons and knew how to use them. One bad guy with a gun in a room full of good people with guns doesn't have much of an advantage.

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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !

[This message has been edited by Matt Shade (edited 01-26-2000).]
 
Just wanted to point out that there still are some high school security advisors who aren't caught up in bureaucratic bs. I'm in college now, but when I was in high school I usually carried a leatherman and a BM folder for technical theatre and electronics class (the pliers on the leatherman were better than any in the electronics lab, and nothing cuts muslin or marks 2x4's for cutting better than a Stryker.) The head of security knew I had them, and told me if I ever got caught doing anything stupid he'd expell me, or if another administrator saw me with them, I'd be dead, but otherwise he was fine with me carrying it.
Don't think I'm crazy, I didn't pull the folder on anyone, and I was careful to be discreet.
Anyway, the point is just to demonstrate there is still a modicum of common sense among a select few public school employees.
(Of course, the in that school system pagers are in the same category as firearms regarding penalties for bringing one to school, so there isn't *much* common sense to go around.)
-Vikram
 
Originally posted by Jeff Clark:

The head of school district eleven's security said: "The violation is pretty clear, and my goodness, certainly students at Mitchell High School ought to know that knives are not appropriate things to have at school....Zero tolerance means zero tolerance".


Sounds like a typical liberal Bull... to me. They'd like to eliminate a need for a brain by having "a rule" for everything. I bet that all the "cool" students sneaking in butterflies and switchblades get a real kick out of it, like "That's what you get for being a honor student!"

mad.gif

Kris
 
I won't comment on the issue itself; I'm not in the mood to think about it.

However, e-mailing the contacts provided is a good idea. (Please, everyone, eliminate typos. Let ANY mail you write sit at least one sleeping period. You may be inflamed again when you awake, but there's a chance that you'll catch unnecessarily caustic banter) Snail-mail is even better, however.
 
Hi Matt,

I'm on your side buddy!

I oppose ANY infringments on our second ammendment right to "Keep and bear Arms"

I just don't like the fact you see it as "fine" for you to disobey the rules by having a multitool in your truck and still oppose the right of other students to carry switchblades. "They" start small taking away just a few of our rights at a time, but before you know it they will be going from house to house breaking the blades on all the knives down to 2 1/2" and confiscate all the serrated ones.

Laugh all you want to now, but you'll cry when it happens.
frown.gif


Just thinking about it makes me sick. The time for a revolution is long overdue.

Later.
John

P.S. "They" have just read this message and filed it away on me in one of their super computers, but I could care less. (If I start getting more speeding tickets now I'll know why though.)

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Skeleton walks into a bar and and says "give me a beer and a mop."

[This message has been edited by automantic (edited 01-26-2000).]
 
This all makes me feel very fortunate. I am senior at a small town high school that allows knives. Everyday I carry my small Sebenza, a Primble muskrat, and the Baby Goddard that is on my keyring. I do not have to worry about who knows, and teachers borrow them frequently. I even have a large filet knife in my truck that I used in a class to demonstrate how to filet a fish.

Gee, with all the stupid regulations being implented, I almost feel like I'm bragging now.
smile.gif
 
The educational "system" does not like to have its judgement called upon to make a decision. Having inflexible rules protects them from being wrong as individuals. "Order" is our schools' most important goal.
mad.gif

(Ooops, forgot the apostrophe. Some teacher.)

[This message has been edited by HarlowJ (edited 01-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by HarlowJ (edited 01-26-2000).]
 
Y'all are, as they say, preachin' to the choir.

If you can contain your anger long enough to sit down and write a nice, calm, ratiional letter, address it to:

SUPERINTENDENT: KENNETH S BURNLEY
Address : Colorado Springs School District #11
1115 NORTH EL PASO STREET Phone Number: (719) 520-2000
COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80903-2599
Fax Number : (719) 577-4546

Or to

rincipal: JAY ENGELN
Mitchell High School
Address : 301 NORTH NEVADA AVENUE COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80903-1299
Just remember, as you write, that you represent all knife owners. Be nice and make your case calmly and rationally.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
 
Or... you could call Kenneth Burnley impersonating Jay Engeln and cuss him out.

smile.gif


Later,
John

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Skeleton walks into a bar and and says "give me a beer and a mop."
 
I've been out of scholl for many moons now but even back in my day there were stpid burro like sheeple around, i got suspended for getting a black eye, A 9th grader just came up and punched me (i was in 7th grade) we were both suspended, and all I did was fall down. later the same kid drew a switch blade on me in gym class, and the next day the priciple couldn't understand why I was carrying a fixed blade, even after i explained it to him I got dtention for a semester. I faired better next time, the simply took my knife (I had forgotten it when I was out hikning and it was in my coat, no question as to what another person was doin in my coat pockets when i was elswhere. Luckily hig school was more sensible, while there I was intorduced to bladesmithing in my shop class I made a 12 inch dirk other made swords and crossbows, we were all allowed to store them in our lockers, oh for the days of peace and common sense,

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Sanity is overrated, simply a moonbeam spilling pearls on a dark and treacherous sea.
j . p hissom
 
I too have used the Comments link on the schoolboard website to voice my opinion on this Zero tolerance policy.
It would seem that between 1st and 12th grade a person gives up a lot of rights that they are otherwise entitled to. Searches of vehicles, lockers, arrests for stupid things like steak knives, SAKs - almost GESTAPO type tactics by the school officials. I am not a lawyer, but I wonder how all this reconciles with the constitution.
 
Its not that I'm against switch blades, or find them more dangerous than other knives. I was just trying to say that they sould be able to ban the things that pose more of a threat without banning everything.On top of that automatics have restrictions on them that keep most high schoolers from being eligible to carry them any way. I think thats dumb to but thats a different argument. And I don't like the fact that I have to break the rules. But there is the chance of me needing to work on my truck in order to get home or to get to school, since both of my parents work I can't just call them on the cell phone and say my truck broke down come and get me.And since its -6 degrees right now I don't plan on walking anywhere to far either. I wish we could carry whatever we want to school, maybe excluding firearms as theres no real need for them during the course of a normal day.I'm just mad that people think banning it outright will solve the problem. They ban things that criminals use. Criminals don't give a damn what the law is and use them anyway, so the everyday law abiding citizen is the one getting screwed.

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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
Hey guys...I got an answer back to my E-Mail of complaint to that school district. It was from the head of security He told me that the zero tolerance is a FEDERAL MANDATE and listed the guidelines they have imposed. What a crock of S**T!! I am so glad my kids are grown and out of school.

Jake
 
I just received my canned form letter back from one Larry Borland (whoever that is). It was written in the typical and customary bureaucratic form, complete with bullet points (maybe we should change that term, to make it more PC). How many of you other forumites received this exact same reply?

Here is an exerpt to show exactly how foolish this school board is (I know I said earlier that I wouldn't quote private correspondance without the other party's permission. But that was regarding a knife maker, a fellow human being. This is from a public school bureaucrat, who I consider lower than a criminal):

"Who developed the concept of zero tolerance for weapons? Zero tolerance for dangerous weapons is mandated for schools by federal safe schools laws and by the Colorado State Legislature under 22-33-106 of the Colorado Revised Statues, as well as in Board of Education policy. Expulsion from school is required for bringing a dangerous weapon to school under state and federal law and Board policy.

"What is a dangerous weapon? A dangerous weapon is defined in 22-33-106 (d) (II) as:

a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded
a firearm facsimile
a pellet or bb gun
frown.gif
a fixed blade knife with a blade longer than 3 inches
a spring loaded knife, a pocket knife with a blade longer than 3 ½ inches
any other object, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate, used or intended to be used to inflict death or serious bodily injury.

"The District 11 School Board uses the state's definition of a dangerous weapon in the student conduct and discipline code."

Okay, that's the federal law. Notice how it makes provisions for folders with blades under three and a half inches. I know it's not fair to restrict knives at all. But at least the feds are willing to concede something, for now. See how the panjandrums at school district 11 deal with this:

"In addition, the Board of Education has defined as standard weapons certain other items including:

any object device, instrument, material or substance, whether animate or inanimate that is (a) used or intended to be used by the student to inflict bodily injury of a lesser degree than serious bodily injury or, (b) is designed to inflict bodily injury of a lesser degree than serious bodily injury, regardless of the student's intent. [emphasis added]

the Board of Education has defined all knives that do not meet the definition of a dangerous weapon as standard weapons." [again, my emphasis]

So, ladies and gentlemen, you see how they have the law-abiding student over a barrel. Unfortunately, there is nothing most of us can do for school district 11. But, we can definitely take this strory to our own school boards. They are elected officials. Tell them that it's our way, or the highway. I am positive that with enough leverage applied in the right places, we can turn this "pc" thing around, and demand common sense from our elected official. We aren't all sheep.


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"...the Law of the Jungle had taught him to keep his temper, for in the jungle life and food depend on keeping your temper..."
-Rudyard Kipling, from The Jungle Book

 
Thank God we have such a caring goverment to protect us from ourselves! You could hurt someone with a knife so we'll get rid of them. I could use a chair to inflict serious bodily injury to another student - doesn't that make it a dangerous weapon by their definition? Better get rid of them.And if I were to slam the door on somebody ,that would hurt so we better not have doors. A stapler seems pretty threatening better not have them either, they could be used as a projectile weapon. Effective range is 18" to put someones eye out, they definitly gotta go. Maybe the safest thing to do is just make everything out of nerf. I'm going to go carve a mold out right now. No more metal knives from me, only nerf! Wait, I'd have to use something sharp to carve the mold out. What the hell do I do now? Maybe I can slowly make a mold by handsanding it out of a board, but boards are dangerous. I better have it glued to the table so nobody uses it as a weapon. At least I'm politically correct now
wink.gif


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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
In my HS in New York, there were a dozen of us who were pretty much ready for anything! We were regular MacGyvers!
I carried a big-azz Police Model I paid $5.00 for from 9th to 11th grades, however not on my person everyday at school! Great knife and with those serrations always sharp. A SAK always in my Jansport, and when I got a job, I would alternate with my friend between my Gerber Multitool and his SOG. (SOG had needlenose).
We all had cars before senior year-little rice burners-and we were always working on them. In my tool box I had things that were far worse than any steak knife! Would love to see what damage I could do to someone's finger with my Vice-Grips!
To all administration...keeping an eye out is all good, but look at what you are actually doing, and who you are making examples of. At my HS, there were handguns in school ALL THE TIME!!! To be honest with ya, the teachers never bothered those guy...just us geeks! See what I mean!

STEVE in NYC

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God's choices in inflicicting suffering are unsatisfactory to us, nor are they understandable, unless innocence offends him. Clearly he needs some help in directing the blind fury with which he flogs the earth...


 
The statutes may be opposed at the district and state levels. Both the state law referenced and the district policy should be ammended to exclude common items in automobiles. So a maglite flashlight, golf club, pipe, hocky stick, tire iron, car antenna, multitool, SAK or tableware would be exempted if they were in a car. Note that the district greatly expanded on the state law when they previously suspended a student for have an SAK in her car. It is obviously under the length limit.

I would also say the vagueness of the districts classification of dangerous thingy is way to broad to apply to a zero tolerance law. Think of how many women have been strangled with their own nylons. Think of how many people have been drowned. By their rules you could have zero tolerance for panty hose and water.
 
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