Another Honor Student Suspended for knife in her car.

I will be more than happy to forward the above email, complete in its entirety, to any forumite that wants it. It really is that ridiculous.

-Bo

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"...the Law of the Jungle had taught him to keep his temper, for in the jungle life and food depend on keeping your temper..."
-Rudyard Kipling, from The Jungle Book

 
Once again, I'm going to play devil's advocate. Some have argued that it shouldn't have been a problem, since the knife was locked in her car. OK, I don't know about any other cities, but I can tell you what it's like in Charlotte. Most people with cars at my school go out to their car at LEAST once a day. Many people leave campus in their cars (even though there's a rule against that, and they never get caught). Someone could easily leave the knife there, get it between classes, and do some damage with it. Also, is it OK for me to carry the knife...say... strapped to my backpack, as long as I don't hurt anybody? Great! Mind if I carry my dad's rifle, since it has a trigger lock? Let's say we set a precedent, and let that girl go, since she said she forgot to leave the knife at work. I promise you that other kids will start to bring knives, and make up excuses. I do a good bit of camping, so I've got mine figured out. Anyone else ever lie before, though? It's really a pretty easy thing to do. "Uhhh, I needed to cut the thread off of my clothes, so I brought a knife with me so I could do it in the car. Oops" Someone could easily also break into a car (especially if the owner forgets to lock it). Then there are always those fits of rage that you see every once in a while. Then what happens? Someone gets away with killing someone with the knife another person "accidentally" left in their car, claiming it was a crime of passion, then the owner of the knife gets in trouble! Until we have someone to make a call on EVERY incident (again, I'll do it), I can't think of any better ideas than zero tolerance, as much as I hate to say it. Of course, were a judge to handle every incident, those who still got in trouble would be pissed, and some people would still get away with it and hurt somebody. The idea is to punish crimes if necessary, but to stop as many as possible before they happen.

Howie
 
The point is--knife in the car is OK. Take knife out of car is NOT ok. Same as knife at home you could have brought is OK. Bring knife from car is NOT ok. The knife is not such a hazard that it matters that it is slightly closer in the car. A table knife is NOT A WEAPON...a fork is NOT A WEAPON...a spoon is NOT A WEAPON. I assure you that I can kill a person with anyone of those items, but they are not weapons. The rule should be that you don't bring WEAPONS onto the school grounds. These include explosives, bombs, guns, bazookas, rpgs, mortars, crossbows, bows, spears, swords, battle axes, maces, daggers, dirks, bowie knives, billy clubs, nunchaku, shurikins, and stun guns. There are other things with primarily non weapon functions that are forbidden as "hazardous objects and substances" which are forbidden except in your car. These would include many blunt instruments like: maglites, baseball bats, hockey sticks, golf clubs, pipe wrenches, crowbars, candlesticks, and pipes. Also included would be some sharp items like: garden tools, tableware (including steak knives), SAK's, multitools, pocket knives with blade length less than 3.5", sharp tools (carpet knives, box openers, X-acto knives, utility knives--things you use at work or for crafts). And you can't ignore gasoline--it's OK in the gas tank or an approved safety container. It's bad if you bring it into the building without being asked.

The issue is that there is virtually no safety benefit to banning these things in cars if equally dangerous items are more readilly available all over the school. You can break a bottle if you want to cut someone. You can stab them with many common implements like pens and pencils. You can hit people with chairs, computer monitors, heavy backpacks, weight lifting equipment, baseball bats, and many other common school items. You can shove people through windows and knock them down stairs. All of these are likelier acts of rage and more dangerous than someone going out to their car and getting a pocket knife.

Your biggest hazard is probably some nut who goes out to the parking lot, drains some gasoline out of a car, and sets the building on fire. That could kill dozens or hundreds of people without the use of a gun or knife. That is more what the gang at Columbine were planning to do. They had a propane tank, but got distracted playing with guns.

We just aren't significantly protected by banning steak knives in cars and we are capriciously punishing people for having ordinary tools in their vehicles. Random punishment for harmless activity undermines rules and authority. It also demoralizes students who are generally trying to do things right. In our to notable cases in point, two girls who were honor students.


[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 01-29-2000).]
 
At least at the school I go to, there is absolutely no chance of someone going to their car in the middle of the day and getting a weapon, or breaking into someone elses car for one. First off, how are they going to know which car to beak into? Second off, there is a police officer patroling our parking lot everyday during school hours, he never leaves.How is going to the car in the middle of the day any different than just bringing it in with you the first time you come in? It isn't.
Fits of rage at my school usually mean someones going to get a black eye.Even with all the psychos that are here they don't stop a fight to go out to the car and get a knife. And there are hall monitors and teachers roaming constantly, so its going to be hard to sneak anything by or have a fight that lasts for more than 1 or 2 punches anyhow.
Lying about it isn't an excuse if you bring something thats against the rules you should get in trouble, no matter what the excuse is. The key is to not bring anything against the rules. The problem is the rules are unreasonable. An outright ban may prevent things but it is total overkill and ridiculous. They should let you bring anything you want within reason to school, at least to be kept in you car. There isn't enough need to have a gun or bowie knife or sword in your car to allow them at school. They may be useful in some situations, but those situations shouldn't come up in the course of a normal school day. Multi tools,SAK's, tableware, tire irons, wrenches, and things like that have a reason to be in your car at least. There is a reasonable need for them. If they leave your car and come into the building then you should get in trouble. But not for having them in your car where they really don't pose a threat.

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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
Everyone needs to check out the article in "Blade Magazine" April issue pg 68. In Minnesota(notice where I live)it is a FELONY to take a knife to school. To summarize a student forgot to take a 4" folder out of his pocket and was charged with a felony. He was found guilty and has to write a letter of apology and can not possess ANY knives until his 19th birthday.
Now I am not in School anymore but this really disturbs me.
First off he was found to bring a "dangerous weapon" to school. Very broad dangerous weapon definition in Minnesota also. What ever happened to knives being tools we need in everyday society.
I am getting upset, I have to stop thinking about it. But I will talk to my state reps about it soon.
Eric
 
When I see these insane reactions of otherwise functional people I am puzzled as to how it got this way. Ever since I can remember, and I'm 47, it seems that society has increasingly polarized into "us" and "them" and "they" scare "us." We have to protect ourselves and "we" gain the illusion of protection by finding "them" and making them behave, or at least by getting revenge on "them" for being "them."

I work in a prison in this state in the area of counseling and trying to prepare people for a productive place in the world. I've been doing this for 10 years and have come to believe that what I said it true by observation: The people are willing to pay whatever it takes to keep "them" locked up because they are scared of "them." As a matter of fact, I feel safer knowing some of "them" are locked up. See how contagious it is?
We are not societies and communities any more, we seem to be returning to little clusters, or big clusters in some cases, of paranoids who are sure "they" are out to get us and must be stopped.
The clusters won't demand true security as long as they are provided the illusion of it and this punishment of a responsible student by "them" is just one way that the illusion is preserved. Unitl we return to a society where we know and care about each other rather than fear and suspect each other things will only get more insane. Remember the last one of these cases that was discussed here? They girl involved actually accepted that it was right that she were punished. That gets real scary.
 
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