Another Off Topic Post on the WTC, link to pix.

"All dogs have fleas. They cause discomfort, and can usually be combed away. When they multiply, they are an infestation, and can cause the dog to sicken. Then, the dog must be bathed. It is of no matter that they are killed, as they simply live off the dog, and do nothing of benefit".
 
Some of the posts above have taken up the subject of bravery and cowardice. I would suggest that we sidebar that part of the discussion. It has never been easy to define these terms, and they have been so often misused that it would be best to avoid the rathole. I am sure I have acted at times bravely and at other times cowardly, and no one has been more surprised by the results then myself. I suspect that too many Medal of Honor winners were simply average joes who found themselves too angry, tired, frustrated, or scared to back down. So let's not lable anyone a coward; chances are 50/50 that you are wrong.

Usually, when this difference of opinion comes up, the real issue is our opinion of human nature. Those who would advocate a strong response believe that the people should be held accountable for the actions or inactions of their leaders. While the folks who would advocate peace feel that the vast majority of the people are victims, innocent, of the frailty of their leadership.

I admit that I favor the former rather than the later. My family was once violently thrown out of a country by the poor, and simple, politically excluded part of the population. I am convinced that no one can rule for long unless they have at least aquired the acquiesce of the majority of the population. No five guys ever made have ever dominated a hundred peers for long. If the Taliban is in power today it is because the population of Afganistan wants it that way. And they will stay in power until the population of Afganistan decides otherwise.

We might not understand why a simple farmer would support these people, and that doesn't preclude the farmer from having some real human feelings and honestly regretting the loss of life caused by the attack in NYC; but, make no mistake, that person is fully behind his government. That alone makes him a legitimate target of war. Without the support of the population the Taliban and BL would be gone. The objective of war is to attack the population and make it clear that it is not in their best interest to continue to support these people. The other side clearly understands this better than we do, but we are learning fast.

n2s
 
Every now and again there is someone who gives me pause when I think of my brothers and sisters in the military, law enforcement and fire rescue who put their lives on the line for those they don't know and never will. Then again, for the most part it's an honor and a privilege so one doesn't dwell on the negative.

One of the most telling things I've read here is that someone actually thinks it's courageous facing down the opposite opinions of other posters in this thread. I have news for that person. No contributor to this thread or this forum is a threat to your life. Or your way of life. Or your creature comforts.

In the real world (away from your comfortable chair in front of your monitor) courage is demonstrated by facing down real threats from real enemies who may kill you and yours or die trying. Giving them milk and cookies and making nice just won't get it done.

Arguing with my brothers here? Courageous? Hardly. Rather, it's a privilege that they speak to you at all.

I can only shake my head in wonder at the "long years" of experience this person speaks from. I wonder how one can see at all with their head so deeply buried in the sand.
 
The great lesson of the Twentieth Century is that pacifism encourages aggression ."When someone comes to kill you,rise up and kill him first".Bed Linen and his ilk are finally going to reap what they've sown. We don't need to apologize to anyone for defending ourselves.Cheers,Mark
 
Until one has figured out what is worthy of dying for, his or her words of Life are cheap. One of the best little dialogs of this is from a Clint Eastwood movie where Ten Bears says "There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see. And so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men... It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life or death. It shall be life." If you don't know what you stand for, if you don't know what you'll die for, you can't really handle life. For me, everyday is a good day to die. I make no qualms about who and what I'll die for-My God, My wife and family, my country, my friends. This bin Laden pig has thrown down the gauntlet. We as a nation have picked it up. The ruling faction of Afghanistan has chosen to protect and defend the pig, bin Laden. They have cast their own fate. We shall strike them down where even they hide, whatever pig wallow they lie in. According to the Tao, life is like a river. Well, folks, this river is seeing rough waters now. It is muddy, high and violent. Righteous wrath is coming to the pigs. They will end.

Hank:mad:
 
I just received email from an old warrior who has fought in several wars and wishes somehow that would not have been necessary. And he said, "I don't wish war on anyone."

Neither do I but in an answer to his email I commented, "Until everybody achieves sainthood I don't think the world will see the end of war." Think about it in a tribal situation. 99 guys in the tribe of 100 are peaceful and loving. They give, share, care do everything right. One guy doesn't like the way the others are operating for some reason. He's outnumbered. He can't get things his way and gets angry so what does he do? He starts killing the other 99 with his khukuri. What are the 99 to do? Stand in line waiting to have their heads chopped off? And what happens then? We are left with one bad guy out of a hundred good ones and evil prevails. The obvious action is for the good to fight for good. If they don't evil will win the battle and all is lost. Now project this scenario to a world scale. It works just the same.
 
Rust, I know each of us on this forum has their own opinion and their own way of life. You have your right to feel as you do but you can not imply how we (Americans) should behave, act or respond to certian situations. You are not in our shoes and it was not your country being attacked. I have a long line of family serving this country. My 5th Great Grandfather was John Rutledge, a signer of the Constitution and Edward his brother signed the Declaration of Independence. Many followed in their foot steps and served either politically or in the armed forces. My family risked it all along with many other brave Americans that have served and serve every day. We (Americans) have fought long and hard for the freedom that we enjoy and don't think for one minute that we are going to stand by passively and loose it to the likes of terriorists (no matter what religion or nationality they are).
I feel like you came here looking for a fight without concern for the people you were offending or hurting. I do not agree with everyone on the forum as far as beliefs, religion, raising children, etc. That list could go on and on. I do however respect each person on this forum and think of them as family. Sometimes things are better left unsaid because of respect for one another. Living what we believe sometimes speaks louder than preaching what we believe and expecting others to conform.
 
Thanks Sandi. Here's a little info I picked up somewhere that's a sobering thought in these times. 1100 WWII veterans are dying everyday. That's another one to think about.
 
I've been pretty quiet today. Projects around the house.

1) and 2): Woodchuckery - fitting S&W J frame accessory grips ( the old smooth oversize wood goncalo alves round butt and square butt ones of 15 or 20 years back ) to minimum adequate dimensions for my hand for unobtrusive carry to an adjustable sighted 3" "Chiefs" model, and a lightweight Bodyguard.

3) Calling and putting a second .380 CZ83 on layaway to back up my other.

4) Arranging money for #3 and a trip to Reno to pick up a (fixed) hearing aid, pick up the extra CZ83, stay overnight at a motel, and take the CCW class I've put off the last year the next morning and get it over with so I can file the durn application.

Oh - I forgot this thread was on response to terrorism. My philosophy is that civilization is built on an unspoken contract:

a) Act civilized, be treated likewise.

b) Conversely, in medieval days when the law ended at the town gates, if you were outside when night fell, and the town gates closed, then you were outside the law ( hence the term outlaw ) and you'd better be ready to provide your own justice.

c) I agree with Jeff Cooper's response to a reporter when asked if violence didn't beget violence. He ( roughly ) said " I certainly hope so! And I hope to return a whole lot more violence than the perpetrator bargained for. "

( Oddly enough the more permanent the effect of the countervailing violence the less recidivism. Someone ought to do a doctoral thesis on violence by residents of graveyards. Anyone got any statistics on this? )
 
I will. That's part of the purpose of taking two days, so that there's time without rushing.

I feel welcome to drop by the cantina anytime, Uncle. But I also know that you sometimes have days like I do. Which means I'm gonna use a khuk to chop a 3 to 4 foot stick to put my hat on and wave in your window first. ( A hole or slice in it would bother me - musta had that hat 20 years now - but nothing like a hole or slice in my head. After all, you might mistake me for the tax man before you recognize me. )
 
Rust,
Bill, you or Blues or ANY OTHER WANT TO PULL THIS OK!Rust my Dad was at Pearl, some I know were at the BATAAN DEATH MARCH(YOU PROB. NEVER HEARD OF IT) I'M AN AMERICAN,SO ALLOW ME TO END "OUR" NEGOTIATINS BY SAYING, RUST ,YOU WITH YOUR VIEWS CAN "KISS MY ***!
JIM :D
 
Since I got in on this late, I'll be brief with my $0.02...

There's an old qoute I think we've all heard that is applicable hear..."All that need occur for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing". Pacifism means doing nothing; it is IMO inherently an evil of ommision.

It also seems to me that Rust holds his ideals above even human life, or otherwise cannot understand that justice is what preserves life. To hold ones' ideals before everything else is (again, IMO) neither laudable or wise, and in fact stikes me as arrogant.

It's quite dissapointing that he doesn't seem willing to see things from others' viewpoints. :(
 
If I understand the polls I see on CNN there's about 10% of our own people who don't support the war so it seems Rust is not alone.
 
Uncle, sadly that doesn't supprise me. There are quite afew Americans who have been taught to loathe America, freedom and everything they stand for. I don't think Rust is one of those, but probably alot of the people here who don't support this war are.
 
First it was grips for the 3" adjustable sighted "Chiefs" special .38, then the grips for the Airweight Bodyguard, and finally the most ambitious, modifying a set of new model Cobra/Dick Special grips. They are drying overnight.

Not a bad week's accomplishment. 3 woodchuckery progects in three days, replacing a windshield the 31st so I could get the truck registration done before 5 pm, and a few short days before
 
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