Another quick steel comparison: 154CM vs S30V

ehhh

ehhh

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Feb 4, 2006
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Last night I decided I needed to cut down a couple large boxes I had and split the boxes into even amounts and see how 154CM stacks up to S30V. It was actually a test for my own knowledge because I have yet to use 154CM to much of an extent (and because I'm deciding whether or not to buy a Benchmade 707 and whether to shell out for the Limited Ed. S30V or not).

For the "test" I used my Benchmade 426BK (154CM, plain edge) and my trusty Spyderco 83mm Manix (S30V, plain edge). Both were touched up on my Sharpmaker at 40 degrees prior to cutting. Both have similar edge thicknesses with the Benchmade being slightly thinner (~.020" vs ~.022"). Both have similar thickness blade stock, the Spyderco being a tad bit thicker at the ricasso. However, the BM is sabre ground whereas the Spyderco is full flat ground and sports a distal taper. For those of you who don't care much about the details, they're both fairly close to each other as far as profile goes.

During the test, each knife made a total of 150-180 cuts through 4-6 inches of cardboard. The length of cardboard that each knife cut was very close because I split each box in half and sectioned them. On each section I cut a certain amount of times. I do not know the precise number because I didn't write down the number of cuts, but they each cut about the same length of cardboard from the same boxes.

Before starting, both were shaving sharp and had similar "bite". At the end neither can shave, but both can still cut cardboard without excessive force. There is very little difference in edge sharpness as far as I can tell. However, the tip of the Spyderco still has quite a bit of bite because I did not utilize that part of the edge very much. I feel this has to do with the choked up grip and big belly of the Spyderco which requires less draw to cut. I utilized the full edge of the Benchmade. This means the two knives are dulled about the same amount, but the Spyderco has less edge to begin with, and did not use all of it. I'd give S30V the nod here with edge holding, though I wouldn't say it's night and day like it is with mid grade steel (13C26, 440A, AUS-8).

The edge of the Spyderco had a good deal of "microchipping" just as in my last test. Benchmade's 154CM held up very well in this regard with a pretty smooth edge, but not quite as well as 13C26.

As with last time, my pinky was a little uncomfortable with the Mini Manix. The Benchmade's handle was less comfortable for me. I have smaller hands and found that the grooves in the 426 just didn't match up well. Quite possibly very comfortable for larger or gloved hands.
I also found that the jimping on the Benchmade was overly aggressive and VERY uncomfortable if you bear down on it, yet no more grippy than that of the Spyderco. In fact, I put on gloves thinking the deeper jimping is meant for use with gloves, but the Spyderco's jimping actually gripped better. The jimping on the Spyderco is simply top notch - very grippy and very comfortable.

As far as the steel goes in my opinion, S30V has slightly better abrasion resistance and 154CM has a finer, more durable edge (on cardboard). Both superb steels for cutting cardboard. And I just ordered a regular run BM 707 for my birthday :D

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Great review, ehhh!

I'm very happy with my new Native, but I also love my Benchmade with 154CM and my CRKT S-2 with ATS-34. The microchipping problem with S30V is somewhat troublesome, but there are so many fine steels these days that it's difficult to buy a truly awful knife from good reputation manufacturers. Alas, Gerber is no longer in that category. Gerber's slide into junkdom seems at times a bad dream.

I have a crappy S&W I used this past week to cut up hard plastic packaging that had been accumulating, and I was amazed at how well it did. Afterwards, a few swacks on my ceramic sharpener got it riproaring sharp again. My Gerber EZ-Out would barely cut the plastic at all, but the real reason I stopped using it was because I feared the lock would fail if the blade jammed. The S&W knife was one of those camo plated things Smokey Mountain sells for $8.99. (My new Spyderco Native went through it like it was butter. Very little resistance.)
 
Thanks for the test. Did you look at the s30v under magnification to observe the microchips?
 
The microchipping doesn't really seem to cause any problems when cutting cardboard at least. To me it seems like more of an annoyance because I hate feeling a rough edge. It touches up really easily anyhow. That 154CM works very well though.

I don't have anything to really magnify with, so I can't take a very good look at it. There are a lot of tiny spots that reflect light when angled correctly, and maybe 5 larger spots that are by no means large. My estimate is that the larger ones are less than .5mm in length and and have no noticeable depth.

I personally love S30V even though both my Mini Manix and Paramilitary exhibit microchipping on cardboard. It holds its edge very well and in my experience is incredibly simple to touch up.
 
I havn't had a chance to mess with 154CM. But I do have a Mantis MTF-4Ti in S30V. I've used for a week or so cutting boxes and wood and love the stuff.
 
Thanks ehhh for the post.

I'v been eyeing the Manix 83 and the Para Military, both have stout .16 thick blades and full flat grinds and I really like those features. I'm currently carrying a ZT 0200 but looking to going back to something smaller. That 0200 is really tough on the back pocket of my jeans plus I'm not really over the moon about the reverse curve blade.

Wuff
 
I just wanted to throw my 2's worth into this conversation. I was a little bored the other day so I decided to conduct a little test between my new Spydie s30v plain edge Native and my old Cold Steel plain edge Voyager in aus8. The Spydie had its factory shaving edge when I started the test and I sharpened the Voyager on a fine ceramic flat rock until it matched the Native's edge in hair shaving ability. Both knives appeared to the eye to have the same beveling degree so this test should have been a decently fair one. The test I conducted was a paper cutting test where I placed a 3/16 thick magazine on the edge of a desk and used the edge as a guide as I sliced the magazine into stripes with the two knives. The same number of stripes was cut with each knife. After the first magazine was cut up I hardly detect any loss of sharpness in either knife. I used several more magazines until each knife lost its shaving ability. The thing that suprised me was they each made the same number of cuts and each had exactly the same level of sharpness left after I stopped. Each knife was picking at the arm hair but was not sharp enough to shave it off cleanly. This supprised me because of all the great things I have been hearing about s30v and how it holds such a great edge. Well,,,not so in my test. The old dependable aus8 stainless steel held its own with the newer super stainless in this particular test.,,,VWB.
 
Lycosa: The Benchmade is made of 154CM. I'm not aware of any production knives that use CPM 154CM as the cutting edge. If anyone knows of one, please let me know too :D

one_half_wuff: I have both the Manix 83mm and the Paramilitary and personally prefer the Paramilitary because the handle is much more comfortable and there is zero blade play. The Manix (and all my other lockbacks), being a lockback, has some barely noticeable and seemingly safe vertical play. The Para is also a slimmer overall and much lighter.
The blades are about as stout as each other, the Manix being beefier in the middle, but with a much finer tip than the Para. Much finer than most of my knives in fact. I find it a little odd because the rest of the knife is so stout, yet the tip - which is most prone to breakage - is so fine.

vwb563: I find that my CS AUS-8 is pretty close to 440A and 13C26 in terms of edge holding, maybe a tad better. I'm willing to bet that if you repeat the test with cardboard, you will see S30V jump ahead.
 
I would think that if s30v is superior to aus8 in edge holding then it would apply in any applacation and any matter being cut. What if the user were a paper cutter / trimmer in some factory? My test showed he would be just as happy with aus8 as wouold be with s30v. He wouldn't need to pay for a higher price blade with s30v. Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't think the matter beig cut would make much of a difference in the edge holding ability of the steels.,,,VWB.
 
vwb563,
I think if you gave your native a good sharpening the s30v will perform a lot better. I tested a native with its factory edge and the edge holding was quite terrible. Edge holding improved after it was sharpened.
 
vwb563 said:
I would think that if s30v is superior to aus8 in edge holding then it would apply in any applacation and any matter being cut. What if the user were a paper cutter / trimmer in some factory? My test showed he would be just as happy with aus8 as wouold be with s30v. He wouldn't need to pay for a higher price blade with s30v. Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't think the matter beig cut would make much of a difference in the edge holding ability of the steels.,,,VWB.
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S30V is not superior to AUS8 in every type of cutting. This is a fairly common misconception. For AUS-8 to really pull ahead it would have to be taken to a higher hardness than typical (at least 61 Rc) and then ground to finer edge. The finer structure would start to show its benefits then.
 
vwb563 said:
The thing that suprised me was they each made the same number of cuts and each had exactly the same level of sharpness left after I stopped. Each knife was picking at the arm hair but was not sharp enough to shave it off cleanly. This supprised me because of all the great things I have been hearing about s30v and how it holds such a great edge. Well,,,not so in my test. The old dependable aus8 stainless steel held its own with the newer super stainless in this particular test.,,,VWB.
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You didn't cut long enough. The S30V will crush AUS8, and I like AUS8. After a few cuts, or in your words "the same number of cuts" they will appear to dull at the same rate. Keep on cutting and the S30V will leave AUS8 in the dust.
 
A knife doesn't have to be terribly sharp to cut cardboard. In fact, if you'll recall the old Cold Steel DVD featured a couple of guys cutting up huge amounts of cardboard with 440A knives. They did the same thing with their Voyagers. The primary advantage of S30V, I'd think, would be the ease at which it cut.

I had a Gerber Paraframe that wouldn't cut much of anything, then a Voyager that would cut almost anything, and finally, a Spyderco Native that sliced through almost anthing with minimal effort. It appeared to dull with the 'ol thumb on the edge test, but it kept cutting with no problems. (And BTW, I haven't found it difficult at all to resharpen back to razor sharpness.)
 
Bob Loveless introduced 154CM to the knife making world in 1972, -in terms of edge retention, sharpness, finish, availability and cost, there hasn't been much competition since. A true genius ahead of his time.

There's still no such thing as a perfect steel for a hunting/ utility knife, but the closest in my opinion is 154CM.
 
Well said Flatgrinder; and a WELL deserved nod to the Master, Bob Loveless for the creation of 154cm steel. Those of us who use it regularly enjoy it's many fine qualities, Thanks again Mr Loveless!
 
Lets thank Mr Loveless correctly for the first use of 154CM in cutlery, not the creation of the steel.
 
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