Another RenWax vs Camellia oil thread

[Bruce Bump]

A good idea for a Blade Show seminar might be on metal products and applications. The best writeup ive seen was an old Blade article where Wayne Goddard tested many product in side-by-side testing. I cant remember the date or year of this, if anyone knows..? One of the products tested was wd-40, against others.. many tests, weathering, salt water exposure, etc..

I remember that old article, It was Bri-wax that won that shoot out wasnt it?

 

[jayinhk]

I wouldn't use camelia oil or any oil for that matter on any porous material (bone, wood, stag) as I've found it discolors it. For stainless balis, mineral oil, camelia oil or Ren wax would be fine on the blades. The handles could be oiled, too, but I've never bothered oiling the handles on a stainless bali. Several thin layers of Ren wax works great at preventing corrosion on brass, however.

 

[KYJ]

I live in Japan, and the humidity of Japan is very high.

Many people would know that we Japanese have been using clove oil or camellia oil to defend the sword from rust.
However, at the same time, sword keeper remove old oil by using the powder of sharpening stone.
It means that deteriorated vegetable oil is bad for blades.
So many of sword museum changed their maintenance oil from these vegetable oil to mineral oil or silicone oil.
(When I say "mineral oil", it means the paraffinum liquidum refined to cosmetics grade.)

Also, sometimes the solvent contained in chemical oil exerts a bad influence to materials other than iron.
So I usually do not use chemicals which includes solvent.

For my collection, I use liquid paraffin include non solvent antirust, and silicone oil which is used for the metal mold for the food processing.
Both are odorless...it is also important for me.

It is just my case.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I use Renwax exclusively and have had no problems on Stainless or Carbon Steel blades. For a your purposes I would use the Renwax very sparingly and wipe it off almost immediately.
Win

I agree Win, the above is the secret to success with RenWax. It's odd that the directions on the can only say "Apply sparingly with soft cloth and buff gently". I didn't think that was enough directions for something I was going to use on expensive damascus blades so I contacted the manufacturer and they sent me a very detailed information and directions for use which stated to do a small area at a time and specifically not to let it dry before buffing it off.

I use camellia oil. I prefer non petroleum based products. No I am not into green but I just don't like the smell.

Kevin, I can assure you that camellia oil is not mineral oil. It comes from the camellia plant and another name for it is Tea Seed Oil. It is expensive, $45/gallon wholesale. I found an importer that I purchased a large quantity of it from. I have a few gallons left. The oil I have is a bit thicker than the bottles I have gotten at the knife-shows with the Japanese writing on it. So I am not sure what is in those bottles. I know what I have is pure camellia oil and some I have is even ORGANIC. I have even used it for cooking which is what it is made for. It is much more stable than most vegetable oils and has the highest smoke point out of all of them.

Hi Chuck.
I know it's not mineral oil in spite what some say, as I have used both and found a huge difference in results.
All the camellia I've used is in the small bottles with Japanese writing. Perhaps it's not pure but diluted camellia oil. What ever it is it does everything I need it to do.

On Mineral oil and camellia oil, there may be no marked difference. What is sold as camellia oil is mostly paraffin wax, around 97%. Thats what i was told by a MS bladesmith who works in Japanese swords and kitchen cutlery.
- maybe there's more varieties of this, in different concentrations, on the market. (?)
David

Hi David.
As stated above, what I buy represented as camellia oil maintains my collection beautifully so I don't particularly care if it's 97% cat piss.
It protects, evaporates slowly, leaves no sign or residue and provides a pleasing look.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I live in Japan, and the humidity of Japan is very high.

Many people would know that we Japanese have been using clove oil or camellia oil to defend the sword from rust.
However, at the same time, sword keeper remove old oil by using the powder of sharpening stone.
It means that deteriorated vegetable oil is bad for blades.So many of sword museum changed their maintenance oil from these vegetable oil to mineral oil or silicone oil.
(When I say "mineral oil", it means the paraffinum liquidum refined to cosmetics grade.)

Also, sometimes the solvent contained in chemical oil exerts a bad influence to materials other than iron.
So I usually do not use chemicals which includes solvent.

For my collection, I use liquid paraffin include non solvent antirust, and silicone oil which is used for the metal mold for the food processing.
Both are odorless...it is also important for me.

It is just my case.

I'm courious as to your bolded statements, thus I have a question.
Why would one need a sharpening stone to remove the old cameilla oil?
Are you saying it dulls the cutting edge? Or it damages the blade finish?

 

[2knife]

:grumpy:

I remember that old article, It was Bri-wax that won that shoot out wasnt it?

Thanks Bruce, yes i think so.. Bri-wax was best overall. Though I cant remember too well.

 

[JParanee]

I'm courious as to your bolded statements, thus I have a question.
Why would one need a sharpening stone to remove the old cameilla oil?
Are you saying it dulls the cutting edge? Or it damages the blade finish?

Kevin those usually white bags with a bamboo stick that appear in sword cleaning kits contain uchiko pwder which is very fine like powder that is taken from reduced polishing stones. It removes oil residue and lightly polishes .

 

[KYJ]

I'm courious as to your bolded statements, thus I have a question.
Why would one need a sharpening stone to remove the old cameilla oil?
Are you saying it dulls the cutting edge? Or it damages the blade finish?

If the old vegetable oil leave on iron for long times(maybe over 2 years or more), the oil may be deteriorated and stiffened.
It strongly sticks to the blade, and then the part will oil-stained or rust.
(Some deteriorated chemical oil may become the same condition, if the base oil is low quality.)

If one frequently check(maybe more than every 6 months), wipe off the old oil and maintain, it will be no problem, I think.
But if one attach the vegetable oil and leave it for years, it may rust worse than using mineral oil.
Oh course, all sorts of oil will be deteriorated.
But long-leaved vegetable oil will be worse to stiffen.

Many of old and long-leaved swords were damaged by it.

 

[2knife]

For cleaning a blade of residues , and old waxes, what is recimmended? mineral spirits?

 

[Kevin Jones]

If the old vegetable oil leave on iron for long times(maybe over 2 years or more), the oil may be deteriorated and stiffened.
It strongly sticks to the blade, and then the part will oil-stained or rust.
(Some deteriorated chemical oil may become the same condition, if the base oil is low quality.)

If one frequently check(maybe more than every 6 months), wipe off the old oil and maintain, it will be no problem, I think.
But if one attach the vegetable oil and leave it for years, it may rust worse than using mineral oil.
Oh course, all sorts of oil will be deteriorated.
But long-leaved vegetable oil will be worse to stiffen.

Many of old and long-leaved swords were damaged by it.

OK, that makes sense.
I just took one of my damascus blades that has had camellia oil applied to it consistently (every couple months) for over 6 years, wiped it twice with a soft cloth and put it under magnification and the blade is perfect. No rust, no sign of the oil, no staining/discoloration. However, I wipe all blades down every couple months and re-apply a new coating of oil. So that's most likely the difference. I also keep water in my display cases as well to hydrate my handle materials.

I would think that practically any applied substance could damage blades over years non-maintenance.

thanks for your reply.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Kevin those usually white bags with a bamboo stick that appear in sword cleaning kits contain uchiko pwder which is very fine like powder that is taken from reduced polishing stones. It removes oil residue and lightly polishes .

Thanks Joe.
I'm not as learned on Japanese swords as I could be.

 

[KYJ]

For cleaning a blade of residues , and old waxes, what is recimmended? mineral spirits?

In my case, if the old waxes are strongly stiffed, at first I carefully wipe the old wax with using chemical oil which include solvent.
I also have the chemical oil which is used for bicycle.
It include solvent, but the chemical maker says that the solvent does not have a bad influence to other materials.
But...and then, I wipe off the chemical oil, and wipe with non-solvent oil.

And if the old wax is still strongly stiff to, I may use high quality "parts cleaner(sorry, I do not what it is called in foreign country...)" which is used for cleaning parts of bicycle.
If I do not have parts cleaner, I will try to wipe with ethanol because it may be similar effect of resolving oil.
And I will also take care of not attaching parts cleaner or ethanol to handle material.

It is just my way.

 

[KYJ]

OK, that makes sense.
I just took one of my damascus blades that has had camellia oil applied to it consistently (every couple months) for over 6 years, wiped it twice with a soft cloth and put it under magnification and the blade is perfect. No rust, no sign of the oil, no staining/discoloration. However, I wipe all blades down every couple months and re-apply a new coating of oil. So that's most likely the difference. I also keep water in my display cases as well to hydrate my handle materials.

I would think that practically any applied substance could damage blades over years non-maintenance.

thanks for your reply.

Yes, I do agree.
Frequently maintained knives will keep good condition.
The best maintenence way must be "appreciating the knife".

 

[sam adams]

Not to throw another wrench into the mix ,but while looking up various oils/protectancts for good ol' carbon steel blades I saw a Smith that recommended carnauba paste wax (car wax...the smith was J. Neilson i believe) Have been using it about a year and a half , and have not been disappointed. It goes on kinda thick and leaves a film, but you let it dry out for a few hours and wipe it off with a paper towel/cloth and it is just gets sparkling clean looking, and is protected (atleast from my grubby hands) for a good while. Can't say definatively how long it last's , but I've had my one J. Knight Bowie sitting in the knife drawer (too nice to beat up) for about a year now with no ill affects what so ever. All the others, belt finished Knight's and Combat 'Polished' Lamey's get the same treatment but they get beat up on a regular basis and still the wax seems to be a good protectant. Can't comment on wood handles though, as I'm still a little OCD about that myself ( that's why I dig micarta, never have to worry about it).

The wax I'm using is called 'Meguiars' Gold Class, seven bucks from wally world. I believe J. Nielson recommended 'Mothers' wax. It's a lot less expensive either way. Hope that helps, Mac