Anti-knife movement

To be simplistic - crime is on the up due to the economic policies of governments. Criminals look for weapons and when the governments come down hard on guns they turn to knives. Not knives as we know them - just simple sharp things. And, who suffers - knife knuts.

The people don't blame the government they blame the 'ethnics', the knife sellers and 'knife knuts' - so we suffer. It was happening before 9/11 so you can't blame that. The governments have to sit down and ask why people are turning to crime and violence instead of taking the short-term solution and banning everything. If I need a weapon I have to look no further then a hammer or a screwdriver and a piece of concrete to sharpen it to a point.

One of the real problems is that the world is moving to the far right and creating classes of people who have no where to turn to and so turn to criminal activities and violence. Whilst we have the Bush's and Howard's of this world in power things are not going to get any better.
 
Just saw an Ani DiFranco lyric that seems to fit in here as well as anywhere: "Every tool's a weapon if you hold it right."
 
But there is still good news,at least for the knife people in Taiwan.
The balis and automatic knives are no loger banned in Taiwan.:)
 
JDEEBLADE


Respectfully, I couldn't disagree with you more. Your line of argument is all too familiar in the U.S. But the facts don't bear out your assertions.

-Crime in the U.S has been falling steadily and substantially for the last ten years. According to the latest FBI statistics (2003), violent crime rates in this country have fallen 50% in the last decade - through good and bad ecomomic times.

-The statistics that I've read on Australia indicate that crime there has actually risen since your unfortunate new draconian gun laws.

-You write: "The people don't blame the government, they blame the 'ethnics', the knife sellers and 'knife nuts' - so we suffer." Oddly, you point the finger at 'the people' for your woes, when it's actually the government that's slowly pressing its iron boot down on your throat. I'd say that "the people" are the ANSWER not the problem. And I believe that nothing could please politicians more than your way of thinking.

-You write: "governments are going to have to sit down and ask why people are turning to crime and violence instead of taking the short term solution and banning everything." Don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen. I think every part of that sentence is just wrong thinking - or maybe wishful thinking. Governments act IN THEIR OWN best interests. When is the last time you heard anyone in government say, "Well, yeah, we just did a study and discovered that it's all OUR fault." They use the means at their disposal - laws and taxes. And that's just about always a one way street to opression.

-I will only say about your claim that the world is "moving to the far right" that you'd be hard pressed to give me examples of that. What can be said is that gun control and human rights violations in the last century since the advent of communism are historically (as has been previously mentioned on this thread by misque and others) reserved for leftist regimes. And class warfare is Karl Marx's baby. France, Germany, and most of the U.N. not only tend to be anti Bush, Howard (I like him, a gutsy guy) and Blair (a great leader), but also notably leftist/Marxist. (I won't even get into the growing anti-semitic.sentiments spreading throughout europe.).

-Finally, I'd just say that I know Australians and admire the one's I've met for their independent spirit and self-reliance. Generally, they seem to be all-around good people. I'm sure you're probably cut from the same cloth. So I hope you'll take my comments in the spirit of debate and not as a personal attack. But I think you're making a big mistake counting on "government" to solve any of your problems. The real crime is standing by idly while the men and women YOU ELECTED take away your freedoms, telling you all the time that "its for your own good".

-Paul
 
Interesting response! Just a couple of points.

1. Governments do react to public opinion and whether that opinion comes from the people or is influenced by the media is a matter of opinion but here you only have to read the 'letters to the editor' and listen to people esp. if you are a knife seller to know that their opinions are shaping government legislation. In my view governments make decisions for 2 reasons. Firstly, because they think it will win them kudos and therefore votes and secondly they react to public opinion again the reason being votes.

2. Howard was the one who took the guns away in Oz - the reason the Port Arthur massacre which gave him the opportunity to jump on the anti-gun bandwaggon and win votes. If decisions were made by the likes of him based on facts instead of votecatching then there was no need to introduce anti-gun legislation.
 
yeah, theories of government mendacity aside, it must be noted that recent history contains 9-11 and also the recent knifing assasination of that Danish minister in a department store. So the common herd/sheeple are up in arms with fear of knives, thus comes legislation responsive to that fear.
 
... swedish foreign minister, a woman by the way... the last I have heard the swedish police with their customary efficiency are not quite certain if anything has happened

TLM
 
TLM, could you tell us if there are anti knives laws or controls in the Scandinavian countries, if yes, how does it apply?
I'm just curious to know, for example in France you are not supposed to carry any lockable blade (I don't even talk about guns...), but the terms of appliance of these laws is subject to the interpretation of the LEO, so if you can provide a valuable explanation, or prove in some way that you're not a "crazy ugly MoZf#$!" and that for you a knife is before anything else a tool, then you might keep you blade. Sometimes it's just a question to know if you're lucky, though...
:yawn:
 
Originally posted by lsstaipei
But there is still good news,at least for the knife people in Taiwan.
The balis and automatic knives are no loger banned in Taiwan.:)
Click to expand...

That seriously is good news.
 
JDEEBLADE:

The tougher knife restrictions in all federal buildings, airports, airlines, etc is in direct relation to 9-11.

Before 9-11, you could get into the museums and such in Washington, DC
Before 9-11, you could carry a folder with a blade up to 4 inches in length with you onto the planes.
Before 9-11, you could carry any folder length in Boston [ state law has no blade length restriction ].

There is definately a correlation to the 9-11 events and stricter controls relative knives in general.

Brownie
 
I apologise for my ignorance of what happens in the US. The laws in Oz were in force well before 911. Instance it is illegal to carry a pocket knife in some states. You could not carry a pocket knife on a plane or in fact to meet a plane prior to 911. Maybe if those laws were in force worldwide 911 could have been averted!!!

We have had to live with draconian knife laws for some time now and those laws came into being corresponding with stricter gun laws and so called upsurge in 'knife' related crimes regardless that many of those crimes were carried out with kitchen knives etc.
 
JDEEBLADE -

Points taken.

I really don''t think you and I are far apart on the issues. Maybe here and there about how to achieve them.

If PM Howard was at the helm for the disasterous gun control decision, then it was a terrible move. But, as you and others have pointed out, these movements begin lower down on the food chain. Public clamor will always be greatly amplified by media with an "agenda". I think much evil legislation is instituted without majority support or even with overwhelming (but silent) disagreement.

The only way to counter that is through active opposition at all levels. Write your newspapers, write/call your TV stations. Write your local and regional representatives. Legislation is introduced by your locally elected reps. Make them aware of political consequences and maybe we can stop this trend.

I wonder if you "down under" have the same problem that we do here in the "states"? : general laziness and apathy at the local and state levels. How many knife and gun owners skip voting and then blame the PM or the President for repressive laws? We all need to take the fight to the politicians BEFORE we're backed into a situation where we find ourselves stockpiling knives and guns against the time when they're proclaimed illegal.
 
Hi again Panella. Just a couple of points. Firstly we have compulsory voting but I get what you say. The greater majority of gun owners in this country would be on Howards side of politics. Secondly, our biggest problem re lobbying etc is the lack of support of the knife industry as a whole. Instead of standing up for the industry they seek to diversify and place it in the too hard basket eg one of our biggest importers of knives is continually reducing its range of knives and moving into kitchen products. Also we have a very large city based electorate versus a small country electorate where the majority of knife users/supporters would reside. That is probably the one biggest reason that we have draconian gun and knife laws. The city based yuppie drives to the bush on the weekend sees all the nice kangaroos jumping around and doesn't understand why we country folk carry a knife eg we come across an injured 'roo (probably hit by one of those city drivers) and have to put it down.
 
I am not sure about all of scandinavia but in Finland (and propably Sweden) you have the right to carry knives if you have a reason (work, going hunting, scout, etc.) but still you had better not carry it to the local bar.

Certain extra dangerous ones, (stilettos, automatics or otherwise not in favor) are outright forbidden. The definitions in the law are extremely unclear and imprecise, propably on purpose.

There are no blade lengths or anything like that.

On the whole the law is idiotic because if you read it you get the impression that you can buy a kitchen knife but not carry it home. It is 'explained' that this is not forbidden but that is just an interpretation.

In practice you can carry a SAK or multitool and if you behave no one cares. A non-agressive folder would be OK, I guess.

TLM
 
I've never seen a non aggressive folder.

I was always under the impression aggressive/passive were animal traits and not prone to be something inanimate objects were capable of.

Just a thought if you are ever asked or questioned about your supposed "aggressive" folder.:eek:

Brownie
 
I used to think that all of those militia guys were nuts, going on about "the Government will get us, and spies on us all of the time" rant. Leftists argue that the 2nd Amendment does not apply anymore, but has anyone noticed that the Feds have been doing a good job of trampling states rights in order to form a larger, more powerful central government that is increasingly sidestepping laws concerning privacy and the like? I am glad the the 2nd amendment exists-it is our protection against forced submission. Our Founding Fathers lived through it, and tried to make sure we wouldn't have to. Crazy conspiracy rant over..--Joe
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
JDEEBLADE:

The tougher knife restrictions in all federal buildings, airports, airlines, etc is in direct relation to 9-11.

Before 9-11, you could get into the museums and such in Washington, DC
Before 9-11, you could carry a folder with a blade up to 4 inches in length with you onto the planes.
Before 9-11, you could carry any folder length in Boston [ state law has no blade length restriction ].

There is definately a correlation to the 9-11 events and stricter controls relative knives in general.

Brownie
Click to expand...

I believe the blade limit on airplanes pre-9/11 (in the us) was a 3" bladed folder, no serrations.
 
Originally posted by JDEEBLADE
I apologise for my ignorance of what happens in the US. The laws in Oz were in force well before 911. Instance it is illegal to carry a pocket knife in some states. You could not carry a pocket knife on a plane or in fact to meet a plane prior to 911. Maybe if those laws were in force worldwide 911 could have been averted!!!
Click to expand...

I often flew with a pocketknife before 9/11, and I will tell you, I wish we could have them back. I'll be damned before some crazy terrorist with an axe to grind is going to kill me and hundreds of others by scaring us with a boxcutter. I flew a week before that, and had 2 knives on the plane, and if it were me, I'd have killed those MF's, or died trying.:mad: Boxcutters..Bah-Joe
 
Originally posted by JDEEBLADE
I apologise for my ignorance of what happens in the US. The laws in Oz were in force well before 911. Instance it is illegal to carry a pocket knife in some states. You could not carry a pocket knife on a plane or in fact to meet a plane prior to 911. Maybe if those laws were in force worldwide 911 could have been averted!!!
Click to expand...

Perhaps if the "terrorists" on 9/11 knew there would be armed resistance on the plane they wouldn't of hijacked it?
 
I posted:

Maybe if those laws were in force worldwide 911 could have been averted!!!

That was said 'tongue in cheek'. The point I am trying to make is that the laws as such have no integrity. They would not stop a 911 episode nor will they stop the next knife assault anywhere.
 
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