Any benefit to clamping systems vs. Edge Pro?

This is very interesting. There are some knives that are just a pain-in-the-butt on the EP. Hollow ground ones that want to rock and can easily be in a edge-up or edge-down position. Just too hard to manage when I'm focused on the edge. Having a less expensive option (?) to also use my stones on a clamped system would be great. I'm been leaning toward just making my own. Hoping doesn't have to come to that. ;)
 
Keep in mind, if you truly mean small knives most any clampy thing is going to get in the way and keep the stone from getting down onto the actual edge of the blade. I'm talking about a knife like a medium stockman (small stockman ?). A Case Tear Drop might be another example (I haven't tried it on a clamp). I gave up the idea of clamps. I suppose it is possible.

I need to see it to believe it. In my mind it would take a precisely made, heat treated for strength STEEL clamp so the clamp can be thin enough . . .not aluminum (too weak / flexible even if heat treated 6061 ?). A tiny blade with a fairly heavy handle like a small stockman is probably going to slip in the clamp anyway, what with the polished blade and no flat . . . tape the blade . . . I suppose . . .
futzy futzy.

Take this for the truth or humor it contains for you but :
When a hollow ground blade is teetering around on an Edge Pro that is just the Edge Pro's way of telling you the knife sucks for cutting stuff and to go with a better grind.

A lot of edge tools for other crafts are ground with a hollow so the spine and the edge act as a self jigging two point contact so the edge is self jigging on the stone surface. These tools tend to be for pealing thin shavings or shaving hair rather than for chopping or slicing.

One of my last knife purchases was a Buck 102 with a hollow grind. I bought it because I like to look at it. For cutting up an apple or a thick cardboard box it is almost comically incompetent.
I'm just saying.

(listen to the voice of the almighty Edge Pro . . . what is it whispering to you ? ? ?)
PS : sometimes I take all this too seriously . . . don't mind me.
 
I use a strong neodymium magnet under the central portion of the blade "plate." I think it's around 75 pounds or so...holds the blade like a horse. Have to generally "tip" the blade to move it or adjust it on the plate. It is of a proper O.D. that I can jam the magnet up in that central space under the blade plate so that it is likely within 1/4" of the blade surface. I keep it up there with some tape around the magnet so it stays "jammed."
Takes at least 90% of the work out of the whole thing...Love it.
ND049-0-N52 N52 Rare Earth Magnets 3/4 in x 1 in Neodymium Cylinder
N52 magnets, stronger than N50 Pull force: 75 lbs Magnetized through 1" thickness
$5.99 - $6.75
 
Sonnydaze said:
I use a strong neodymium magnet under the central portion of the blade "plate." I think it's around 75 pounds or so...holds the blade like a horse.
Click to expand...

Yep, the magnets work great. I ended up getting a bigger magnet and it made a huge difference. I'm using two 1" x 1/2" x 1/4" neodym magnets, and it holds the blade pretty solidly. I also reshaped the plastic clip on the guide plate, I sanded the face of it flat with some coarse sand paper, before when it was smooth and rounded and it would sometimes allow the spine of the blade rock up and down. The only thing I really want now is the adjustable three-point guide plate like on the Hapstone M2. Sounds like EP has one in the works which is good to hear. It will really make sharpening knives like my PM2 easier.
 
Any problem with the super strong magnets magnetizing the blade ?
Swarf sticking to blade ?
Picking up small parts like a washer or a tiny ball bearing or screw while using the knife at work etc. ?

Also . . . please . . . no one take this the wrong way . . . I obviously have my many short comings that I fear are more obvious to you than to me . . .:( :) :(.
This is just an observation that hit me a couple days ago.
Promise you won't release the torpedoes without a shot across my bow ?

ok . . . ok here go :
It's just that I find it interesting that on one hand and perhaps the majority of the people here reading this sharpen free hand and find no or little challenge in holding a knife, basically floating in air, above the stone within a degree or half a degree to sharpen their knife.

While
on the other extreme we have some who can not stand for the knife to tip even a little or swim around while it is basically on a fixed plane in relationship to the fixed stone on the rod of a jig.

and then I'm kind of drifting aimlessly in space from the first galaxy to the next thinking : hmmmmm the Para2 is hard to sharpen on the Edge Pro without clamping it down ? ? ?
NOW YOU TELLL ME ! ! !
I probably will not be able to do what ever it is I have been doing to get mine nicely sharp now that I know it is hard to do.
Dang it !

I must admit to removing and storing my lighter magnet that my kit came with. I forget why now.
Also I tend to kind of float the blade a bit on the plane that it rests on (I believe the proper term aeronautically is yaw) so that I can get to the tip and not run into the table (even with the small knife plate). I'm not sure I would like a super strong magnet that makes this adjustment take significant effort.

well . . . that's it . . . really . . . just an observation. :) :thumbsup:
Don't shoot . . . please.
 
I too like a STRONG magnet under my Apex table, but I like it as close to the front of the table as I can get. I like to use the magnet to "clamp" the blade in place so it does not move when sharpening. The soon to be slide guide plate is what I made for myself to locate the blade better with magnetic clamping.

Wowbagger - To answer some of your questions. Yes magnets strong enough to hold the knife in place will magnetize the blade, but I haven't noticed the swarf sticking to it. I have a 440c blade, which is pretty magnetic stainless, that will pick up my 6" scale but no screws or steel balls. It isn't a problem for me but may be an issue for others. A few passes on a demagnetizer would fix it just fine, if you have one.
 
brando555 said:
The only thing I really want now is the adjustable three-point guide plate like on the Hapstone M2. Sounds like EP has one in the works which is good to hear. It will really make sharpening knives like my PM2 easier.
Click to expand...
The three point guide is rather annoying to me. As the two outer points are connected and the center one protrudes a bit. I wish all three were adjustable separately. But it works fine otherwise. But the knife can't lay flat across all three. With that said it works fine. The magnets are great and the bracket that holds the knife straight is also very helpful. I like the m2 better than my edge pro.
 
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Wowbagger- No problems with the magnet or swarf, the swarf sticks to the stone. I use a mix of glycerin and water. Water just runs all over the place, glycerin stays on the stone. I've found it keeps the stones from loading up really well, and it's water soluble which is nice.

The PM2 can be hard to sharpen because I hold it on the ricasso, and since only since only the corner of the guide plate is supporting the spine the knife can rotate around a bit unless I concentrate on holding it in place.

I just feel like with freehand you can get away with varying the angle more than you can on an edge pro.
 
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Diemaker said:
demagnetizer would fix it just fine, if you have one.
Click to expand...
I learned a long time ago how to demag with a soldering gun so no prob on my end.
Not the heat; use the fields that are rotating around the two posts the tip clamps into. :thumbsup:
 
brando555 said:
I just feel like with freehand you can get away with varying the angle more than you can on an edge pro.
Click to expand...
If you raise the angle slightly with each stone change you not only allow for some angle variation you spend less time on each step. Of course you give up a full width mirror polished bevel, if that is important to you.
 
Mo2 said:
The three point guide is rather annoying to me. As the two outer points are connected and the center one protrudes a bit. I wish all three were adjustable separately. But it works fine otherwise. But the knife can't lay flat across all three. With that said it works fine. The magnets are great and the bracket that holds the knife straight is also very helpful. I like the m2 better than my edge pro.
Click to expand...
The outer 2 points must be parallel so when you flip the knife it is positioned properly. With strong enough magnets and a rubber table top the knife should not move when being sharpened without touching it with your free hand, at least that is how I like it. I find it to be a very accurate clamping system.
 
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Wowbagger I sharpen small slip joints on my KME often with great results. I simply put some masking tape on the scales and clamp down on them in the standard KME jaws because I'm too cheap to buy the penknife jaws. It's a little trick I picked up on Youtube.
bVkaotW.jpg
 
Diemaker said:
The outer 2 points must be parallel so when you flip the knife it is positioned properly. With strong enough magnets and a rubber table top the knife should not move when being sharpened without touching it with your free hand, at least that is how I like it. I find it to be a very accurate clamping system.
Click to expand...
Doh your right. And this is how I was using it. I just didn't realize it. Basically just used it for the first time the other day.
 
Night Rider said:
I sharpen small slip joints on my KME often with great results. I simply put some masking tape on the scales and clamp down on them
Click to expand...
To borrow a term from my Texas neighbors to the south of Colorado : That Dog Won't Hunt.
Unless I'm confused here when you flip the pivot the angle changes drastically because the blade is far from centered in the handle because that is a multi bladed knife.
Or perhaps you mean you flip it and readjust the rod carrier each time.
When I'm getting close to my final passes I'm flipping the knife every stroke or every couple strokes.
I'm giving you "the dog look ". :confused:
:):):D
 
Wowbagger said:
To borrow a term from my Texas neighbors to the south of Colorado : That Dog Won't Hunt.
Unless I'm confused here when you flip the pivot the angle changes drastically because the blade is far from centered in the handle because that is a multi bladed knife.
Or perhaps you mean you flip it and readjust the rod carrier each time.
When I'm getting close to my final passes I'm flipping the knife every stroke or every couple strokes.
I'm giving you "the dog look ". :confused:
:):):D
Click to expand...
Sorry about the short explanation Wowbagger and you are correct sir, I do have to flip and re adjust the angle on a multi blade knife. Let me explain a little more in depth. I start on the low side of a multi blade knife and check for clearance on the bolster and the clamp itself.
rOWOdk1.jpg
Then I set the angle with an free app called iHandy Level
UIJRJ7Y.png
Then I establish a nice wire bur, flip, and reset the guide rod angle angle.
reRM1gK.jpg
I then repeat the process for all the Diamond hones. 140, 300, 600, and 1500 grit then I finish off with a 9 micron KME lapping film or a strop.
4nXlMKs.jpg
The process takes me about 40 minutes to reprofile and sharpen a very dull multi blade knife and about 20 minutes for a very dull single blade knife. Simple touch ups take about half that time. I admit it sounds like a lot of work than it really is but I get a perfect edge every time. I hope that clears things up. :D:thumbsup:
 
Night Rider said:
Simple touch ups take about half that time. I admit it sounds like a lot of work than it really is but I get a perfect edge every time. I hope that clears things up. :D:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Cool.
Thanks for taking the time to photograph and explain the process.
Beats the heck out of clamping to a tiny slick blade.
Nice patina there too.
 
Sonnydaze said:
I use a strong neodymium magnet under the central portion of the blade "plate." I think it's around 75 pounds or so...holds the blade like a horse. Have to generally "tip" the blade to move it or adjust it on the plate. It is of a proper O.D. that I can jam the magnet up in that central space under the blade plate so that it is likely within 1/4" of the blade surface. I keep it up there with some tape around the magnet so it stays "jammed."
Takes at least 90% of the work out of the whole thing...Love it.
Click to expand...


Couldn't agree more. Adding the magnets has made the Edge Pro much more efficient and, for average skill knife sharpeners like me, nearly fool-proof. It's like having an invisible guide/clamp.

I've used my Apex for over a decade and always had good to excellent results. But recently adding a couple of neodymium magnets (reclaimed from an old hard drive) under the table has made the Edge Pro easier, faster, and better IMO. The magnets hold even small folders with odd blade geometry and small/narrow flat areas (like my old Buck Taclite) very firmly in place. Very much like a clamp, without the clamp. This is particularly helpful when determining and setting the grind angle. If the angle needs adjusting (sharpie method) I can just leave the blade in place and it doesn't move while I raise or lower the height. It's helped me find and keep the proper angle much faster. Likewise, holding the knife while sharpening is a breeze. Just the slightest pressure will do. And moving the blade laterally on the table is no problem. My bevels seem to be very consistent with minimal effort. I'm much faster at sharpening and producing a shaving sharp edge without using the polishing tapes is now among my capabilities.

I have a Pro model as well and will try and figure out how to add magnets to it.
 
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