Any chance of a Camillus megafolder?

Jim March

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
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Fact: California has no limit on concealed folders so long as they aren't switchblades/Bali Songs.

Fact2: we have 17 million people.

Fact3: we have LOUSY gun laws, for all intents and purposes we have no CCW system.

Fact4: The Cold Steel Vaquero Grande is *decent* but not great. It can be massively improved on; most of the people owning it for defense WILL also experiment with other large options.

Please, guys. Spyderco barely even admits they spawned the Civilian, and don't post website pics. They will NOT go past a 4" blade length, neither will BM. If you guys will TOP 6" and surpass Cold Steel quality levels (NOT hard to do!) you'll have a MAJOR winner on your hands. At 8" and a retail street price near $175ish, they'll FLY out the door, especially if you do a good shoulder holster rig right out of the box.

Suggestion: consider a "Persian upswept tip". This will put the stress on a straight thrust hard-target stab towards the spine versus towards "closing pressure". Even if you used a relatively "weak" lock like the Linerlock the blade would be combat-suitable...the Cold Steel Scimitar 4" linerlock could prove a GOOD low-end fighter choice for this reason, I'm surprised this blade pattern hasn't been noticed as a "folder safety addition".

Jim March
 
Jim,
I'm with you, I like big folders! But I'm just a lowly engineer. I would like to design a BIG CUDA but need support from outside!
Would all others supporting a "Big Honkin' CUDA" please post to this thread
 
The CUDA has an innovative opening mechanism, but it's still a liner lock knife, and there has been a lot of discussion in the forums on the limitations of the liner lock mechanism.

I'm a tax accountant in real life, not an engineer, but it seems to me that the more mass there is in the blade the less able a ball bearing detent is to retain the blade in the handle. Is a liner lock the right mechanism the best choice for a big honkin' folder?

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
I would <EM>love</EM> a scaled-up CUDA! I was going to mention the desirability of such in another thread!

Look, when my CUDA fist arrived, my gut reaction was "Oh, this is too nice to even carry around!" I just wanted to put it away and protect it somewhere. (Eventually, I got over that much.)
 
I'll buy one. I would prefer a large lockback or Jim March linerbar for the lock over a liner lock. Maybe is we put our heads together, we can come up with a Bladeforums.com designed megafolder that could be contracted to Camillus to produce. I would like a drop point blade myself, with the point slightly above midline for the sake of my fingers. Preferably saber ground, but I guess a blade of that size wouldn't suffer too much from being hollow or flat ground. Weight would be a secondary consideration to blade and lock strength.

As funny looking as it is, the VG handle has alot going for it. It is comfortable to grip anywhere along its length. I would prefer a design that resembled this over a straight one.

Just more rambling. It seem that the possibilities of a megafolder in the near future are pretty bleak. With Knife companies running scared of somehow offending someone with one of their knives, and bowing to non-existant regulations, we may never get a megafolder. This sort of thinking is a self perpetuating downward spiral. Gun companies are constantly pushing the limits of existing regulations. With every new law that our current Communist regieme puts into effect, Gun companies find a loophole and make quick use of it. They don't bow down to the thoughts of offending someone with their product. Even under constant criticism from anti-gunners, and so called safety advocacy groups, gun companies are still producing what the market wants. We'd all be losers if all the gun companies did was follow the laws of Kalifornia or just went with the lowest common denominator of laws. (I am not meaning any knife company in particular, well at least not Camillus ....)

Sorry for ranting here, I guess I am just in the mood to whine...



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"No, it's a Vaquero Grande in my pocket, but I am happy to see you!"
yekimak@hotmail.com




 
I would also love a big ol' folder. The fact that there is only one production knife company that currently has the monster folder market cornered makes me crazy! I love CS but... a folder, made in the USA, with better steel, non-zytel handles..... I'll buy a couple!


canis

 
OK, several points:

1) The classic linerlock will NOT support a megafolder. Flat-out, forget it. I own two specimens of a now-discontinued AlMar 5.5" linerlock, and trust me, it can collapse. I consider this a "slash only" knife.

2) The "Linerbar" IS strong enough. It's a Microtech patented and designed lock which I thunk up long AFTER MT first used it. It is therefore NOT my lock: for the full story plus pics and blueprints of the design, see a thread on Shop Talk titled "Lock design for comment" at:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000088.html

Regardless of who's term you use, this lock operates like a linerlock AND could in theory be integrated with the CUDA design. You might have to pay royalties to Microtech but it might be worth it.

3) Another lock strong enough is the old-fashioned lockback, which is way the hell out of patent. The Cold Steel Vaquero Grande lock *cannot* be forced, I've tried repeatedly - and as you scale them up, they seem to get stronger. I saw an interesting variant on the lockback recently, a small Fury folder whereby the lockback was released at the FRONT of the lock via two round brass studs right at the pivot which you push with a thumb "upwards" to release the lock point at the pivot. What was interesting is that if the knife was held in the "Saber" grip with thumb up on the "spine area", the pad of the thumb would keep the lockwork closed hard at the pivot, and the lock would increase in strength right along with your grip - like a Sebenza. The two "lock release tabs" could be sculpted to serve as an extra-wide thumbrest for the saber grip and the result would be a GORILLA strong lock with no necessary license fees.

4) The Sebenza lock could also support a megafolder. BM and CRK&T are using it, I see no reason why Camillus couldn't.

Someone has GOT to build a megafolder. A comment on size: Texas has a 5.5" limit, so doing 5.45" with a GOOD lock should result in a piece with wide enough legal acceptance to gain a strong market.

PLEASE. You guys make knives, accept it, deal with it: certain liberal idiots aren't going to like you regardless.

Stop with the 4" BS, stop sucking up to morons
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Jim March
 
5.45" CUDA? I`m in! Do you suppose the liner lock would be up to the task if it were scaled up in thickness? It would seem to make production easier rather than changing the design. Also might the 3/16" thick blade give a thicker liner more area to lock on making it stronger still? I`d just hate to see a monster CUDA get thought to death instead of being produced. I`d prefer a Sebenza style lock myself but hey nothin`s perfect. Phil whip up some 5.45" CUDAs with beefed up linerlocks and I think you`d have a good seller for this neglected niche market without breaking the bank in tooling costs and licencing fees. Once it`s in production and I have one or two ,then we`ll talk about the *perfect* monster folder.
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Marcus
 
I know they do listen. I convinced them to make a Hawk CUDA which they showed me at the Shot Show. So I say go for it! Piece of advice here though. Stick with one blade style.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com





 
I think that a mid/bottom release back lock would be better than something at the very top. Although I like the CUDA design, the top 1/8th of the knife is very crowded, and adding the lock release there is going to make manufacturing hard/impossible.

What I was trying to figure out, is there any way to have the cuda button act as a lock? That would make a cool knife, and simplify manufacturing, thus reducing price!
Aaron

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My sheep has seven gall bladders, that makes me King of the Universe!
aaronm@cs.brandeis.edu

 
Amacks,

Interesting line of thought about using thCUDA button as a lock...I hope someone can pursue it further...

Yek

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"No, it's a Vaquero Grande in my pocket, but I am happy to see you!"
yekimak@hotmail.com
MegaFolderians Unite!!








 
Even if it is illegal in WA I'd still buy one.

Just a few notes. If you go with the classic lockback to keep the blade open put the button that you push to disengage the lock at the bottom of the handle. That way its harder to unlock the knife when you don't want to because you wouldn't hold on to the last 1/2 an inch of the handle and just holding the knife tight would be keeping the locking bar closed and even more secure.
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Sincerely,
Adam

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"There are 2 kinds of people in life. The ones who don't post on this forum and the ones who are going to heaven" ;)
 
The problem with linerlocks is that the locking metal must be "flimsy enough" that it can be displaced to unlock with human muscle power. This is a KEY reason it won't "scale up" well...trust me, the AlMar 5.5" linerlock is a bad joke.

The linerBAR that Microtech invented CAN handle a megafolder blade, no problem, because the locking metal is "monolithic" and strong and pivots out of the way on a seperate spring. Coil, leaf, doesn't really matter...it's not "weak spring metal" that's holding the blade up.

Re: lockbacks with the release at pommel: that's OK, except if you want any blade curvature you can't get it. Or at least not much, see also the overall shape of the CSVG.

Jim March
 
Hmmm after reading Jim`s Cuda complaints thread I`m having second thoughts about a conventional liner lock too. But I`m also thinking that the integral lock on the Sebenza,Pinnacle,and S2 is simply a really thick linerlock that`s not just a liner it`s the whole grip scale too. If you can engage and disengage locking bars this thick I don`t see why a thicker titanium liner wouldn`t work almost as well without a total redesign. The key it would seem would be to make it like the integral lock bars are,full thickness hard bars with reliefs cut toward the base to allow them to bend there without the whole bar flexing. I would think the grip scales could be made thinner to compensate for the increased girth and the other liner could be thinkened to match and preserve symetry as well as making the whole knife killer strong. Or carry it one step further and eliminate the scales altogether and make it a Sebenza style. A higher grind on the blade could keep the weight down somewhat and make it a better cutter too. A full flat grind would be really awesome and with the CUDA`s massively thick blade it wouldn`t sacrifice strength to any great degree. Any of the ideas we`ve thrown in sound do able Phil? Marcus
 
Marcus, I think you're missing something subtle about the Integral (Sebenzaoid) lock: the tighter you grip the knife the tighter it locks up. If it wasn't for the actual human-muscle "reinforcement" going on the Integral wouldn't be much better than a good linerlock, which is what you're implying.

Jim March
 
Ok guys count me in on this one!

I'm looking for a good Large folder 5" to 5.5", one that is sleek looking along with a small as possible profile and one that can REALLY be used to save your life on the streets, I do mean tough and able to hold up to the fast and furious seconds that it will take to stop an aggressor.

A 5" CUDA sure sounds great, cause right now all we have is a 5" or 6" Cold Steel, not a bad choice but a much better tool can be made if the public wants it, and I believe they do!!

WLL
 
Man, I need to check this forum more often.

I feel like I'm part of a roaming pack of hungry wolves ready to tear into any open-minded producer. So here's my two bites.
I haven't played with the CUDA so I can't suggest changes to it as is, but the mega-linerlock and lockback have been done.
For better or worse, go progressive. Spyderco may 'super-size' it this year with a Rolling lock, and Mr. Taylor of REKAT has been asking questions about up-sizing(no confirmation of future actions though).
The point is, Camillus may be able to grab a piece of the mega-folder market(not huge, but very loyal) quick if you do something different like an integral/framelock 5" folder.
As far as needing a design goes, I'm sure there's a number of custom makers who will step up to the challenge, maybe even someone on these forums.
Understandably, risk is always involved, but if initial marketing is cautiously planned and targeted with precision, it 'could' open up the flood gates later.
Mr. Gibbs, thank you for being open to new suggestions and perspectives.

Ken
 
Good point Jim I hadn`t thought of that. Still an extra beefy liner lock is better than a wimpy liner lock,no? FWIW I`m all for the strongest lock I can get but lately it`s been blown way out of proportion. I`ve used slip joint knives for years and never had one fold up on me. A strong lock is no excuse for carelessness or poor technique. Yes in "combat" things can get nuts but in real life everyday use treating all folders like slip joints makes the lock an extra safety feature more than a necessity. A monster lock would be nice on a big fighting folder though as long as it doesn`t mean that it`ll never see the light of day. Marcus
 
Hey Jim!
You have started an interestig thread here!
Thank you all for contributing! I think you have raised some really good points.

1. My initial presentation to managment for a Mega-Folder was NOT shot down. It is therefore possible!
2. I tend to agree that a big folder would need serious lock!
3. Prototypes so far using button for lock have been cumbersome & lack rigidity & strength.

Some questions:

1. Would you guys prefer this "Big Honkin' Folder" to have CUDA button or opening disc/stud? (No, you can't have both!)
2. G10 for handle? Any other suggestions?
3. Kydex carry rig? Still need a pocket clip?
4. ATS-34 for blade? Prefer CPM?
5. Plain edge, 50/50 or full serrations?
6. Choose ONE blade shape!

Hmmm, BladeForums Design! Has a nice ring to it.
Keep the ideas coming! Thanks Guys.
 
> 1. Would you guys prefer this "Big Honkin' Folder" to have CUDA button or opening disc/stud?

Neither.

> 2. G10 for handle? Any other suggestions?

G10 is fine.

> 3. Kydex carry rig?

Nah.

> Still need a pocket clip?

Nah.

> 4. ATS-34 for blade? Prefer CPM?

ATS-34 is fine.

> 5. Plain edge, 50/50 or full serrations?

Plain.

> 6. Choose ONE blade shape!

Tanto!
 
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