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Any hunters out there? Or makers for hunters?

I'm not trying to be a smart *## here, but am I the only one who doesn't have to chop or saw through a breast bone or pelvis? When opening up just about any big game animal, and you get to the base of the breast bone, you just move over an inch or two (where the ribs attach to the breast bone), and cut through the cartilage....boomp, boomp, boomp...

On the pelvis, they all have a hairline crack down the center....place the point of the knife in that crack and rap the end of the handle with the heel of your hand. Do that in 3-4 places, then grab the tail and give it a quick jerk upward....the pelvis pops open. It often takes two people to do that to an Elk, and a small hatchet is much nicer on a moose...but the breast bone thing is as simple on a moose or elk, as it is on a small whitetail.

Just a couple of weeks ago I had a gentleman walk into the shop and ask if I could "repair" a knife. It was one of the old Charlton Ltd. damascus gut hook blade, and the spine of the knife was just wrecked. He had used a rock to pound it through a breast bone and pelvis, and he was genuinely concerned that he had messed the knife up. Further more the knife had bone scales, that he had split by beating on the butt of then knife with a rock.
I repaired the knife for him, and a couple of days later, he came back to purchase knife from me. He asked me "Can I pound on this one with a rock?" My response was "Sure you CAN...but my warranty doesn't cover stupid!"
 
Cutting the hide from underneath is the only way ! Not only easier on the blade but you don't cut as much hair. Those cut hairs realy stick to the meat and it's a sign of a poor butcher ! Hammering a knife ? That's gross abuse, get a saw !!
 
I have no experience with them, but I have some friends that live in Alaska that swear by Gene Ingram knives in S30V for bear and deer (and they kill a LOT of each) for its edge holding ability. Before Gene produced the S30V knives they swore by his blades in D2.

great discussion and pertinent to my needs as well :)
 
Ed, "but the breast bone thing is as simple on a moose or elk, as it is on a small whitetail."
In my experience this is only true for a young moose. In a mature bull (moose or elk) the cartilage becomes ossified to bone. A bone saw is a better tool for this job.
roland
 
You may be right! I've never killed an old, tough moose.....only a couple of mature cows, but have killed a fair number of mature bull elk, and although it might have been SLIGHTLY more difficult than whitetail...it wasn't what I considered difficult.

I guess I'm one of those "KISS" kinda people....if I can carry less gear and make it easier on myself, then that's what I do. :) (not sure it thats a good or bad thing)
 
I made a hunting knife for a friend back in 07 and just recently asked him how often he has to sharpen it. He said he had to touch it up on speed sharpener once. He also uses a rock to pound when he cuts through the breast bone and I cringe everytime he tells me that. I tell him to use wood but I would prefer he use a saw :-) It is just plain O1 steel but I must have gotten this one right.
 
mete said:
Cutting the hide from underneath is the only way ! Not only easier on the blade but you don't cut as much hair. Those cut hairs realy stick to the meat and it's a sign of a poor butcher ! Hammering a knife ? That's gross abuse, get a saw !!
Click to expand...

+1

Ed I love this line think I may borrow it from you,

Ed Caffrey said:
He asked me "Can I pound on this one with a rock?" My response was "Sure you CAN...but my warranty doesn't cover stupid!"
Click to expand...
 
you need a buck buster :)
partsident.gif
 
For what it is worth, I have been using a drop hunter made of CPM S60V with a thinnish blade for skinning deer and elk for 10 years. I know that this steel is no longer made, much to my dissappointment, but CPM S30V is supposed to be comparable and easier to work and finish. I have had years where I field dressed, skinned, and cut & wrapped a couple of deer and an elk without even a touch up on the edge. I sharpen it so seldom that I forget when I sharpened it last. The edge is not like a razor, but just keeps cutting and cutting.

I have never tried to bang through a rib cage or anything like that. We use a saw for that kind of work. Building a knife for both purposes would require a huskier design and would compromise the ease of skinning and cutting that one gets with a thinner blade. I have no experience with whittling or other heavier wood cutting chores with this knife. The only other things I do with it is cut cheese and sausage on the trail and gut trout caught in high mountain lakes.

There you have it.
 
My clients have had fantastic results with the S30V blades I've made for them A professional hunter in the UK who culls deer from private estates called me to say his Mooney Knife was the "Dogs Bollocks" and that he had "used it to gralloch (gut and skin) SEVENTEEN beasts before the edge needed to be touched up!!" It came back to shaving sharp after a touch up on the leather wheel. He said these animals wallow in the dirt and as a result have very abrasive hair.
Other feedback corroborates that story.

Smacking a knife blade with a rock is abuse, plain and simple, and will void your warranty on any knife I make. I carry a little Granfors-Bruks axe and a Japanese folding pull saw for such tasks.

Cheers!
Mike
 
I knew the rock hitting a knife part was going to get me into trouble:D I should have left that for another post. Nathan, I've been wanting to try D2 and now you gave me a good reason - thanks.

Thanks to everyone else for the replies as well, what a great read this has been.

Erik
 
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There are a couple of knife makers in South Africa who have made extremely durable (edge retention) knives with S30V, and they have held up EXTREMELY well. My dad is a professional hunter, and he was given a "Doctari" knife, designed for skinning elephant and made of 12C27 Sandvik Swedish stainless steel, hardened to 58/59 Rockwell (third knife down in this link http://sportingwoodcreations.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SWC&Category_Code=EXKN300). It has performed flawlessly, and rarely needs any sharpening (even after skinning out a full-grown buffalo bull). It might be tough to get hold of the steel here in the US, though.
 
Actually 12C27 & 13C26 are readily available from admiral. They come with a nice clean finish and are among the cheapest stainless steels I have found.
 
I did 4 mule deer in one day this year with a small D2 blade and after the last one used the tip to cleanly cut the dates out of the tag,. Could have done 4 more no problem. I agree with Ed Caffery on the ribs etc. Never done a moose but, lots of deer and elk. If its to far from the truck for an ax or a saw your not going to drag a moose (or elk) out whole anyway. I can whittle em up in pack sized pieces and leave the ribs in one chunk if need be
 
alb1k said:
I knew the rock hitting a knife part was going to get me into trouble:D I should have left that for another post. Nathan, I've been wanting to try D2 and now you gave me a good reason - thanks.

Thanks to everyone else for the replies as well, what a great read this has been.

Erik
Click to expand...




I figure folks can do what they want with their knives, but I never warranty my skinners against rough use. A nice thin blade can chip out in a ham handed move like whacking the spine with something.

I'll point out that D2 works best with a 425-475 temper range and a freeze to -100F as a part of the quench (or more correctly to complete the quench, Mf is generally given as around -100 for D2). Otherwise it retains austenite badly. D2 is easy to screw up in that regard. I'd go into more detail but I've beaten this horse to death around here.

I wonder if I'm the only person here who neither splits the pelvis nor opens the rib cage? I use a bone saw to cut the lower legs and that's all the bone I fool with. A hacked up pelvis bone pokes holes in my bag, and I figure you're gonna have to separate the hip at some point. Am I missing something?
 
Why are people pounding their knives through the rib cage in the first place? On a deer it is a simple process to cut the cartilage where the sternum connects to the ribs. However, unless you want the ribs for something, there is really no reason to open the body at all.

Method 1. Insert the point of the knife (edge up) at the base of the tail. Make an incision from the base of the tail to the base of the skull, following the spine. Skin down the rear leg to the hock, exposing the hip. Cut the ligaments and tendons holding the ball socket together. This frees the rear leg. The backstrap is exposed, so remove that now. Inserting the blade under the spine where the hind leg used to be allows access to the tender loin. Remove that. Skin down the shoulder to the hock. The shoulder is a "free” joint so you really don't have to cut through anything. Cut off as much neck meat as you desire. Turn the animal on to its other side and repeat. Dispose of the carcass.

Method 2. Insert tip of knife- edge up- under sternum creating an incision into the chest cavity. Carefully, skin down the stomach to the groin. Without puncturing the gut bag, cut the stomach muscle fro the sternum to the groin. Under the tail, insert the point of the knife to create an incision at the anus. Cut around the anus- and "girly parts" if a cow- and concentrically ream around the rectum. Be careful of the bladder. Once free this will pull through the pelvis to the rest of the gut. On a deer it is much easier to just cut up the sternum to free the organs in the chest. However, an elk or a moose is large enough that you should be able to reach up into the cavity with little problem and cut away the lungs, heart, liver, and esophagus. Finish processing the animal as you desire.

This can all be accomplished with a sub three inch caping knife. Skinning is much less cutting than it is pulling, when the animal is warm.

I use this knife from Knives of Alaska... Cub Bear
 
No Nathan you aren't missing anything. I used to have a large Biro meatsaw like the ones used in butcher shops but I sold it because I hate the bone meal/dust and sharp bones poking holes in bags. Now I just use a large hand meatsaw to cut off legs and split the pelvis. Also use it to cut ribs into 3-4 inch lengths. The ribs are the only bones that go in the freezer. Everything else is boned out and sliced into steaks, chops, or stew meat. Anything too small or tough for stew is ground.
 
Na, your not missing anything. With a real sharp blade you can cut everything around the butt hole loose, tie the hose off on a buck and lop it off, then pull everything back inside when you dump it. I first reach inside and cut the diaphragm loose, then when everything is ready, grab the wind pipe and pull everything out. Takes me just a few minutes to do a deer, a couple more on a elk. It would have to be a monster buck before I shot a deer very far from or down hill from the truck. If I got to pack an elk, I skin it out laying on its own hide, then I bust it down to size and it will cool off fine. Each to their own, but, if you know how they are put together all you need is a sharp knife with a 3" blade.

You know I do my D2 very close to your HT. Not much good for a crow bar, but, it will stay sharp a long time.
 
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