any info grip safeties on 1911s

[rhino]

Yup, that's the same problem I and lots of other people have.

I just gave the example above to show wht the grip safety is supposed to do.

The fellow who had the accident no longer has such a light trigger pull, and his pistols are series 80, these days.

Andy

Hey, Andy!

I won't hold your being an actual lawyer against you, even though some here can't comprehend that you actually are one. Heck, if I can forgive you for shooting Glocks, the lawyer thing is easy.

Anyway . . . the accident you describe probably had little to do with the grip safety. I don't think you specified, but I'll bet that when it hit the ground, the hammer dropped, causing the discharge. The grip safety only blocks the movement of the trigger (as you know), and wouldn't have prevented that. It also sounds like the hammer was about to start following in the near future, as they should not drop just because the gun hits the ground.

As far as the liability issue goes, I think it's good that Mr. Ayoob pulls us all in that direction because without his zeal, too many of us would never consider civil liability at all. The real world civil liability obviously varies based on location and the stupidity of the local jury pool, but someo people are too focused on it to the point of hysteria.

I agree that a grip safety would only be an issue in most jurisdictions if the owner did not intend to fire the gun. If the shot was fired intentionally, it's a non-issue (unless the defense attorney is a moron).

The same is true for various firing pin blocks on 1911s, whether the Series 80 style or the Swartz style. Neither is necessary for a gun that is in proper working order (which includes proper, adequate hammer/sear engagement so that the hammer does not drop just from a minor impact). Both styles can and have induced failures to fire, so I prefer 1911-style guns that do not have them to start. I think they are redundant and far more likely to prevent proper function than they are to prevent an accidental discharge.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Hey, Andy!

I won't hold your being an actual lawyer against you, even though some here can't comprehend that you actually are one. Heck, if I can forgive you for shooting Glocks, the lawyer thing is easy.

Anyway . . . the accident you describe probably had little to do with the grip safety. I don't think you specified, but I'll bet that when it hit the ground, the hammer dropped, causing the discharge. The grip safety only blocks the movement of the trigger (as you know), and wouldn't have prevented that. It also sounds like the hammer was about to start following in the near future, as they should not drop just because the gun hits the ground.

As far as the liability issue goes, I think it's good that Mr. Ayoob pulls us all in that direction because without his zeal, too many of us would never consider civil liability at all. The real world civil liability obviously varies based on location and the stupidity of the local jury pool, but someo people are too focused on it to the point of hysteria.

I agree that a grip safety would only be an issue in most jurisdictions if the owner did not intend to fire the gun. If the shot was fired intentionally, it's a non-issue (unless the defense attorney is a moron).

The same is true for various firing pin blocks on 1911s, whether the Series 80 style or the Swartz style. Neither is necessary for a gun that is in proper working order (which includes proper, adequate hammer/sear engagement so that the hammer does not drop just from a minor impact). Both styles can and have induced failures to fire, so I prefer 1911-style guns that do not have them to start. I think they are redundant and far more likely to prevent proper function than they are to prevent an accidental discharge.

Hey, Rhino! Didn't know you hung out around here, too! Good to hear from you.

I'll have to correct you above, I no longer practice. I'm retired! :thumbup:

I didn't witness the accident that happened, but speaking to the fellow who got shot and his description of what happened, it sounded like a combination of the light trigger pull and a de-activated grip safety caused the problem, but a worn sear certainly could have played a role, I agree.

Mr. Ayoob certainly has done much to elevate the shooting public's knowledge concerning the dangers and liabilities of carrying.

Glad you chimed in here, I was starting to think I was speaking Yiddish!

Andy

 

[rhino]

Hey, Rhino! Didn't know you hung out around here, too! Good to hear from you.

I'm most often in the Buck forum, but sometimes I venture forth into the uncharted depths of bladeforums.com!

I'll have to correct you above, I no longer practice. I'm retired! :thumbup:

You can take the boy out of the law practice, but you can't take the law out of the boy!

I didn't witness the accident that happened, but speaking to the fellow who got shot and his description of what happened, it sounded like a combination of the light trigger pull and a de-activated grip safety caused the problem, but a worn sear certainly could have played a role, I agree.

Well, I was getting at a bad trigger job which was done to get the 1.5# trigger. Not every pistolsmith can do a safe, durable 1.5# trigger job on a 1911. A lot of them are great for a little while, but sooner or later the hammer will start to follow, which means it's also far more likely to drop when the gun is impacted. Of course, having the thumb safety activated would prevent this as it physically prevents the hammer from moving forward, but that's another issue. In any case, I am very picky about who I let work on my triggers. Most of mine are in the 3# range because they are all carry guns first and foremost, but I would trust the two guys who will work on mine to go to 1.5# safely.

Glad you chimed in here, I was starting to think I was speaking Yiddish!

Maybe you were and that's why I noticed! I'm one meshuggene goyim!

 

[knzn]

Keep in mind that series 70 pistols are designed differently than current pistols.

Andy

Is the series 70 not still current and sold by many?

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Is the series 70 not still current and sold by many?

Most 1911 pistols produced today have a disconnecter/hammer block.

Andy

 

[knzn]

Is the series 70 not still current and sold by many?

Guess I should have searched here, http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=15201

before asking.

"Regarding the "clone" guns (1911-pattern pistols made by manufacturers other than Colt), only Para-Ordinance adopted Colt's Series 80 firing pin block system as well. Kimber's Series II pistols and the new S&W 1911s have a FP safety also, but it is a different system than Colt's and is disabled by depressing the grip safety."