Any love for the ZDP-189 offerings?

[91bravo]

This is a simplified explanation of how carbides of various size and distribution affect steel toughness.

If we look at an edge of a high VC steel it is like a mud hill with boulders embedded in it. (The VCs are the boulders, the steel matrix is the mud) As the mud wears away the boulders are left. This is the toothy working edge I was talking about. Also as the boulders eventually wear away too and rip out chunks of mud as they go.

Now a steel like ZDP with a more uniform hardness across the edge won’t wear in that pattern. (Zdp is a powdered steel so its chromium carbides are smaller). The steel matrix of the zdp can be as hard as 67rc. Chromium carbides are 69-70rc. Also powdered steels have less of the effect of the “boulders” being torn out because the PM process tries to turn those boulders into pebbles.

Excellent info and nice analogy!

 

[Lapedog]

Excellent info and nice analogy!

Thanks but the analogy is not mine. I stole it from another member who I can’t remember.

Whoever you are thank you! It is a great analogy.

 

[sharp_edge]

I can only say of my experience of sharpening. It seems Spyderco ZDP-189 is more difficult to sharpen than Benchmade m390 and ZT 204p and Elmax

 

[jswa2]

This is a simplified explanation

Hmm... We're talking about two different things, perhaps. The video addresses a manufacturing method (particle metallurgy), and I thought this was a discussion about the mechanical effects of chemistry. The link between the two (the given chemistry and manufacturing processes of) a given steel may be unavoidable in some circumstances, and maybe ZDP is an example of that case.

My experiences are all structural, and yeah, grain structure refinement, when cost allowed, is always a positive.

 

[whp]

My zdp Endura is a long time favorite. Carried one in sabre grind as my primary edc work knife for several years. Now I like the flat grind even more. In my humid climate and with my perspiration, I find the zdp will rust without careful nightly attention. Not as much as m4.
Keep my secondary blade bevel at about 40 degrees inclusive.

 

[John_0917]

I’ve had both generations Stretches and a Delica and now own none! Not a fan really, it’s prone to both rust and chipping and edge retention is good but nothing that other steels can’t match.

If you want equal or better wear resistance in an almost rust proof steel get S110V, it throws in poor toughness just like ZDP to boot!

 

[ScooterG]

I’ve had both generations Stretches and a Delica and now own none! Not a fan really, it’s prone to both rust and chipping and edge retention is good but nothing that other steels can’t match.

If you want equal or better wear resistance in an almost rust proof steel get S110V, it throws in poor toughness just like ZDP to boot!

You like your ZDP/110 with jaded scales?

 

[Lapedog]

I’ve had both generations Stretches and a Delica and now own none! Not a fan really, it’s prone to both rust and chipping and edge retention is good but nothing that other steels can’t match.

If you want equal or better wear resistance in an almost rust proof steel get S110V, it throws in poor toughness just like ZDP to boot!

Strange, ZDP is considered a highly stainless steel. Also I have never had any chipping issues with it. Though I only have tried it on my ZDP delica.

I have heard of it being chippy from some people when it is taken down to too low an edge angle inclusive.

 

[bearfacedkiller]

I do not think ZDP is considered by most to be highly stainless. That certainly has not been my experience. I have had it stain quite easily. It may have a lot of chromium but the carbon content is extremely high at 3%.

 

[Kels73]

And if I'm not mistaken, a lot of the chromium in ZDP-189 gets used to form chromium carbides. That means there is less free chromium available for corrosion resistance.

 

[Lapedog]

Unfortunately it seems no steel producers specify how much of the chromium is tied up in carbide vs. working to prevent corrosion.

Maybe I am wrong about how corrosion resistant ZDP is. I personally have had no rust issues but I haven’t on most my carbon steels either. I just thought with 20% chromium there had to be a significant free portion.

 

[uncle willie]

I've had decent experiences with it in the stainless department.

A couple of examples,
I've carried a ZDP Delica across thousands of trail miles of mountains and all that that entails; i.e. deluge rains for days and nights, high heat at times, high humidity at times, plenty of sweat, rivers, streams, swamps, etc... When out on long hikes, you are more or less in the environments - non-stop 24/7 for weeks/months. You walk in it all day, sleep in it (under a tarp or tent if raining of course), eat in it, everything. On these hikes I carry my delica in the right front pocket of my shorts (usually dolfin water shorts, sometimes patagonia baggies). If for some reason I find myself in shorts without pockets (super rarely) the knife will be clipped in my waistband, or in the hip belt pocket of my pack (ULA Ohm). I use it daily, if only to cut the tops off instant coffee packets. Other not infrequent uses is cutting small branches and/or underbrush at the end of a day. Done very rarely, but have done & without issue, is feathering wood for a fire. Done/used at each resupply, cutting open various packages/boxes.
So used enough for sure, and definitely exposed to the environment.... In all that, I've had two small rust spots appear on my blade - TWO - . Those two small spots were easily removed with - My Fingernail - They more or less just wiped off, and 'knock on wood' I've not seen any since.

Next,
I had my first Endura 4 ZDP, a Saber Ground knife in the waist band of my swimtrunks one day as I set up safety zone and drop zone in the Ocean for a parachute event, which I was subsequently the rescue swimmer/diver for, and then un-did everything I'd set up afterwards. I was in and on the ocean for the better part of a day with that ZDP Endura on/in my waistband or in my hand(s). I used it to cut various cordage(s) as I set up the borders and markers, and anchored them to the bottom with weights. Pretty early on (first or second set of bricks/weights) I noticed the blade had turned orange... My feelings were a little hurt, as a realized I ought to have known better... I continued to use that knife for the remainder of the day of course and it did fine (although it was orange). The very cool and interesting part is what happened when I got back to land, a sink, and fresh water at the end of the day. I rinsed my knife under fresh water and then "scrubbed" the blade with A Rag and some soap. The orange that was on the blade more or less wiped off. It was like a super light surface flash rust only. I didn't need to use any hard abrasives of any kind. I of course took the blade out of the handle and cleaned the whole thing (pivot and lockbar notch). I also re-sharpened it as it needed it after the use it had seen and in that environment. But, the 'rust' was pretty superficial and was removed surprisingly easily. That said, I do not take my ZDP blades into the ocean with me anymore, lol. I love my ZDP spydie blades very much, but they don't get to play in the ocean much if at all. Around it sure, not in it all day though.
So all that to say - it will 'rust' or stain a bit, and that should be known and kept in mind - but - it's not super crazy or anything either.

u.w.

 

[David45]

What do you think would have happened if you didn’t disassemble and clean up your blade for a while? Simply wiping the blade may have left the pivot area to rust enough to effect function? Would flushing with your favorite lube be enough to keep this steel from being a problem with longer exposure to the coastal air?

Sorry I’m all questions and no answers. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

[Lapedog]

What do you think would have happened if you didn’t disassemble and clean up your blade for a while? Simply wiping the blade may have left the pivot area to rust enough to effect function? Would flushing with your favorite lube be enough to keep this steel from being a problem with longer exposure to the coastal air?

Sorry I’m all questions and no answers. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

If you leave your pivot rusty it will certainly begin to affect the action.

 

[SpySmasher]

ZDP is not my favorite steel but I am glad I have a knife that uses it. It's unique and interesting. Doesn't hurt that it's on a Stretch, which is so fabulous to begin with.

 

[uncle willie]

What do you think would have happened if you didn’t disassemble and clean up your blade for a while?

Corrosion would have still been present there in that area of course, but how bad/to what extent, etc... is hard to say. And of course, it depends on how long "a while" is.

Simply wiping the blade may have left the pivot area to rust enough to effect function?

Eventually perhaps. I'm only guessing, but I'll guess that it would have taken "a while" (like weeks or more) to have any effect to cause concern. Much longer than I'd let it go without at least a good fresh water rinse. Do understand, I was in the ocean for more or less that full day; diving to the bottom and anchoring buoys, tying them off, cordoning off some large areas, cutting a lot of cordage(s), opening, using, closing that knife many, many, many times that day. Then undoing it all at the end of the day, after everything was done. All while being directly exposed to the turbid salt water/suspended sand/etc... That is going to effect any pivot area, regardless of type of steel. So of course a good fresh water rinse was in order as soon as possible, which I did. As mentioned, the 'orange' blade wiped clean with soap, fresh water, a rag, and minimal "elbow grease". It was pretty neat, and I was pleasantly surprised. In no way was it deep, pitted, or anything like that... more like an orange patina that wiped off with just a little effort.

Would flushing with your favorite lube be enough to keep this steel from being a problem with longer exposure to the coastal air?

Yes, Absolutely. I live on the coast, and so my knives are definitely exposed to the coastal air. I carry and use my ZDP knives more than any other by far, and have zero issues with corrosion. I keep the blades/knives clean. A simple rinse (fresh water), shake, and wipe off - followed sometimes by a quick, light shot of some Ballistol (my preferred knife/gun lube) is all I ever do. Works fantastically well, plus I've grown to like the smell of Ballistol quite well (an acquired scent, lol).

Sorry I’m all questions and no answers. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

No worries at all on questions, and definitely no need for any apologies. This is the place for it, so you are knocking the ball out of the park! Keep it up and feed your brain. Sharing knowledge, and experiences, learning, and talking about some pretty darn outstanding knives (Spydercos) is a lot of what we do here

u.w.

 

[bh49]

I love my ZDP Calys.
I carry Caly3 almost every day since September 2016 and use it mostly for lunches and cutting fruits. No wonder I didn't sharpen it yet. Touched up on sharpmaker couple times.

 

[Megawatt308]

I have a delica in the British racing geeen scales with zdp in the spyder edge. I have had that knife for many years. Damm blade is chipped in a few places and not really hard use I would have to say. I have never sharpen the blade and it is sharp. So it is always ready to cut but has chipped often.

I might try the steel in another non Serrated grind so I don’t know if I really like it or not at the moment.

 

[Knifeoholic]

I have a few Stretch models in ZDP and I quite like it. Takes a great edge and does a good job keeping it. The only time I've had a light spotting of surface rust has been when carried in waistband. I sometimes move it there from my pocket if I'm walking in the woods, or doing something where I could snag the clip on something. The rust was very easily removed, just a quick scrape with the nail and a rub with the thumb and it seemed to disappear.

 

[JD Spydo]

Agreed, there isn't much else like it. I love the performance of my M390 and CPM-M4 blades, I wish I had the corrosion resistance of the M390 with the durability and edge retention of the CPM-M4. That's why I really like ZDP-189 blades. My Sukenari Gyuto totally won me over.

I couldn't agree with you more>> I've EDCed my M390 Military for close to two years now and I have no desire to replace it as my main EDC anytime soon. There is truly something special about M390>> it takes a really wicked edge and holds it really well too. There may indeed be steels that can outperform M390 but I like it so much that I'm having a hard time even wanting anything else for an ideal EDC plain edged blade.

I've had my share of ZDP-189 blades and still own a couple of them. I do love the extremely sharp and almost straight razor type edge you can get with it. But the one thing I didn't like about ZDP-189 is that it's really prone to certain types of corrosion; especially food acids. It has hardly no resistance at all to certain food acids or certain food residues. One time I used my Burgundy Caly Jr to cut up some tomatoes I was growing>> but forgot to wash it off>> the next day it looked as if I had soaked it in a full strength, industrial acid. I had to send it back to the factory and ultimately got the blade replaced. So anytime you're using ZDP with food or anything else that has any type of acid or corrosive compound be very sure to wash it immediately!!