Any Pop's ProCut Dialogue?

[Taz]

I wonder if it's the first ProCut Bos did and they were dialing in the tempering and stuff? But the things that look like cracks are not good.

If the blade edge was right near the sheared bar edge, it may have been stresses from shearing I think is what Devin was asking about? Like the metal had micro cracks or something from the shearing process?

I assume they just roll more times for thinner stock, but I am guessing. The thinner the stock, the faster it cools down. I would think the problem would be with the thinner, not thicker stock?

 

[Crag the Brewer]

I wonder if it's the first ProCut Bos did and they were dialing in the tempering and stuff? But the things that look like cracks are not good.

If the blade edge was right near the sheared bar edge, it may have been stresses from shearing I think is what Devin was asking about? Like the metal had micro cracks or something from the shearing process?

I assume they just roll more times for thinner stock, but I am guessing. The thinner the stock, the faster it cools down. I would think the problem would be with the thinner, not thicker stock?

For me, it's the middle thickness and the thicker 3/16" stock that is flaking apart.

I sent Bos the sheet that Pops prints out.
I felt like an Ass, knowing that they should already know how and what to do.....they Are the experts.
It Is supposed to be such a simple steel to treat.
Perfect for "Backyard" makers ...it's sold as That.
Anyone can do it....Right? Takes all the guess work out of 52100.... Now I'm hearing stories of something different

*Larrin also has a good history with Bos, as he worked with them for Buck's Magnacut treatment. Which is supposed to be Awesome.
I figured if they had questions...he'd be available, idk? I guess I'll have to see what they say.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Just call it crackmascus and charge an extra $20.

It is kinda pretty.....if it wasn't MY blade.
Haha. :/

 

[DevinT]

Can you check the annealed hardness of the same bar?

Hoss

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Can you check the annealed hardness of the same bar?

Hoss

I'll measure up some scrap.
I tend to have little bits of drop offs, but I never knew to isolate and label them, so I'm not positive What steel type they are, but maybe I can figure it out from thickness

What am I looking for?
Steel being "too hard" or "too soft" or???

 

[DevinT]

I'll measure up some scrap.
I tend to have little bits of drop offs, but I never knew to isolate and label them, so I'm not positive What steel type they are, but maybe I can figure it out from thickness

What am I looking for?
Steel being "too hard" or "too soft" or???

Too hard mostly, trying to see if it was fully annealed.

Hoss

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Too hard mostly, trying to see if it was fully annealed.

Hoss

Noticably, or would it be a tiny bit?

I'd have to go through discussions I had this year. I vaguely remember talking to someone that a steel was tougher to saw/drill compared to others.....but I don't remember if it was Procut?

But I don't remember anything being impossible

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Do we know where this steel is melted (made)?

Was it from the shutdown Buderus plant?
If so, that adds to the confusion.....

 

[Larrin]

For me, it's the middle thickness and the thicker 3/16" stock that is flaking apart.

I sent Bos the sheet that Pops prints out.
I felt like an Ass, knowing that they should already know how and what to do.....they Are the experts.
It Is supposed to be such a simple steel to treat.
Perfect for "Backyard" makers ...it's sold as That.
Anyone can do it....Right? Takes all the guess work out of 52100.... Now I'm hearing stories of something different

*Larrin also has a good history with Bos, as he worked with them for Buck's Magnacut treatment. Which is supposed to be Awesome.
I figured if they had questions...he'd be available, idk? I guess I'll have to see what they say.

Having issues with two different stock thicknesses I think would make this less likely to be a steel issue. If you had a problem with a certain section of a sheet then that could potentially point to some isolated steelmaking problem.
I have no idea how Bos would be heat treating the ProCut. The biggest potential danger is if they were heat treating it along with stainless since then the temperatures would be much higher than recommended on the datasheet.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Having issues with two different stock thicknesses I think would make this less likely to be a steel issue. If you had a problem with a certain section of a sheet then that could potentially point to some isolated steelmaking problem.
I have no idea how Bos would be heat treating the ProCut. The biggest potential danger is if they were heat treating it along with stainless since then the temperatures would be much higher than recommended on the datasheet.

Thanks, Larrin.
I'm not positive yet if my thinner stock is good?
Do we know if there have been multiple batches made? Different thickness might be from a variety of melts. I'm not sure how well everything is tracked?

I contacted Bos this morning, and I'll reply what they say.

 

[Larrin]

Thanks, Larrin.
I'm not positive yet if my thinner stock is good?
Do we know if there have been multiple batches made? Different thickness might be from a variety of melts. I'm not sure how well everything is tracked?

I contacted Bos this morning, and I'll reply what they say.

There has been one batch of ProCut. We have not seen any other issues like yours with any of the other material. The most likely problem is some kind of processing issue rather than the steel itself.

 

[Pops_Knife_Supply]

Thank you for letting us know of the concern that you have experienced. As we stated in our response to your email, we feel the same as Larrin, there has been some issue in the heat treating of the steel. We have ground several hundred knives in all thicknesses of ProCut with austenitizing temps ranging from 1475-1750 F without any issues, all showing fantastic grain structure. Are the 19 hardness test spots in the first photo performed by BOS Heat treating? We have tried to call BOS Heat treating to find out what the actual austenitizing temp that they used. Please send us back the blank and we will gladly replace the steel for you. We would like to test the blank in house including looking at the grain structure. Pops Crew

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Thank you for letting us know of the concern that you have experienced. As we stated in our response to your email, we feel the same as Larrin, there has been some issue in the heat treating of the steel. We have ground several hundred knives in all thicknesses of ProCut with austenitizing temps ranging from 1475-1750 F without any issues, all showing fantastic grain structure. Are the 19 hardness test spots in the first photo performed by BOS Heat treating? We have tried to call BOS Heat treating to find out what the actual austenitizing temp that they used. Please send us back the blank and we will gladly replace the steel for you. We would like to test the blank in house including looking at the grain structure. Pops Crew

Thanks for your involvement, I appreciate Everyone's response.
I contacted Bos this morning, and I'll post their response. They are pretty good with getting back quickly....

Thanks.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Thank you for letting us know of the concern that you have experienced. As we stated in our response to your email, we feel the same as Larrin, there has been some issue in the heat treating of the steel. We have ground several hundred knives in all thicknesses of ProCut with austenitizing temps ranging from 1475-1750 F without any issues, all showing fantastic grain structure. Are the 19 hardness test spots in the first photo performed by BOS Heat treating? We have tried to call BOS Heat treating to find out what the actual austenitizing temp that they used. Please send us back the blank and we will gladly replace the steel for you. We would like to test the blank in house including looking at the grain structure. Pops Crew

I can send some blanks to you.
I'm sure Bos might want some too.... fortunately I have a bunch....haha

 

[Thescrawnylumberjack]

The only issue I’ve had is the published soak times are on the short side to achieve the published hardness. I find 1550 for 10 min gets 62 hrc with a 300 temper. However 1550 for 15 min gets 64 hrc with a 300 temper.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Different, maybe not a failure, but this chap having less hardness and performance than expected. He has done a second video with expanded heat treatment parameters, but still not getting edge retention comparable to his 52100 bench mark, which was what he was expecting.

 

[dfarm]

I heat treated my first half dozen blades in pc over the weekend. Two in 1/8" and 4 in 3/32".

I used 1475° for 10 minutes, as quenched hardness was between 65&66 across all 6 blades. I quenched in parks 50. Is that similar to what you guys are seeing?

I tempered at 325° and the blanks all ended up between 62&63.

 

[Taz]

I am doing 1525 for 10-15 min, 65-66 quenched in parks 50, 2x2hr at 325 in my kitchen over (actually around 340 from other thermocouples) hits 62-63. I didn't do any normalizing/DET anneal cycles.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Update: Still waiting on Bos..... yesterday's holiday might have them backed up?

I've talked with Joey at Pop's and he's been very attentive, generous and helpful. Obviously wants to get to the bottom of this....

I've talked with a number of people in the community, and this steel is seen Very favorably.
Joey has a theory with how it might of happened with Bos.

*I'm sending some blanks to Pops for them to look

If he, or I hear anything we will definitely post our findings.... Thank you everyone with the friendly, open dialogue. It's how we all learn.

Feel free to post happier versions of ProCut blades.....we all would enjoy seeing.

 

[Stevecallaricustoms]

Thanks for your involvement, I appreciate Everyone's response.
I contacted Bos this morning, and I'll post their response. They are pretty good with getting back quickly....

Thanks.

Hey,

Ive made and sold 50+ knives with procut and had very very consistent results. Phenomenal edge retention and edge stability. 1550/cryo/300 comes to 66.5-67 every time, and for prybars (ive made 60 or so) 1700/cryo/ 400 comes to 61.5 every time. Just my guess, but delam and cracking comes from uneven temps when quenching not anything from the mill. My guess is they overheated the outside of the steel (probably using a forge) and didn't properly soak the steel and that caused the delam and cracking. Also why they poked it 20 times to get a hardness reading, they were probably getting numbers all over the place which is really unprofessional. Thats them trying to find one poke with a number that was acceptable so they could say it made spec. They knew something was wrong from the first 4 pokes, either they still have decarb or its under hardened.