Any rumors of HT changes?

Sorry can't help on angles, I always just follow the factory bevel with the sharpie trick, and then adjust it up to about 3/8-1/2" from the top of the adjustment rod for the microbevel. (I believe it's about 10-15 degrees higher)

I sharpen the main bevel to a mirror polish and then use the 1000 grit stone for the micro. I can't quite push cut toilet paper when done but it leaves and edge that stays working sharp, push cuts newspaper. Stays working sharp depending on use for weeks/months. Then a few passes on the 1000 grit and it's back. Touchups take about 10 seconds, it takes longer to move the EP off the shelf and put water on the stone.
 
Steel_Addiction said:
Sorry can't help on angles, I always just follow the factory bevel with the sharpie trick, and then adjust it up to about 3/8-1/2" from the top of the adjustment rod for the microbevel. (I believe it's about 10-15 degrees higher)

I sharpen the main bevel to a mirror polish and then use the 1000 grit stone for the micro. I can't quite push cut toilet paper when done but it leaves and edge that stays working sharp, push cuts newspaper. Stays working sharp depending on use for weeks/months. Then a few passes on the 1000 grit and it's back. Touchups take about 10 seconds, it takes longer to move the EP off the shelf and put water on the stone.
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That is the kinda performance I was expecting. I wouldn't have made this post if I thought it was a hopeless situation, I woulda just sold the knife.

Thanks for the info, I will give it a go. Then I will know if it's this blade or just the previous geometry.
 
I think a 10" fixed blade is probably a better option for cutting through rolled carpet than a 3.5(ish) inch folder; so I'm not surprised it fared better. I fully understand using what you had in your pocket...but it sounds as if your expectations were unrealistic. Sharpen it up, and use it...if it still sucks at "reasonable" tasks, contact CRK.
(Though their statement for some time was that they intentionally sacrificed edge holding for ease of sharpening. The bump of 1 pt in HRC was a nod to those concerns; but likely not enough to provide the edge retention many seek)
 
My experience with the new heat treat has been limited but positive. I usually reprofile my edges to around 17-18 (not exactly sure because I just go by hand) and the edge seems to hold to a good long time!
If you would like I will sharpen the knife for you and you can see if the initial edge was just lacking. Just send me a PM and I will get you fixed up.
 
My latest 21 is a 2016 (so 59-60HRC) and I am impressed.

Who knows where I am at or how accurate those numbers are but I would say this blade is at least at 60HRC.

It holds an edge very well, and will always fold/roll when I make a mistake.

Reminds me a lot of 20CV, and it has made me a fan.

I think optimum for S35Vn without becoming chippy/Brittle, is 60-61?

Whatever my blade is, I wouldn't change the HT in anyway...
 
^^^^

Before someone freaks out about my comparison to 20CV I will explain..

I was using 20CV right before my very well HT'd 21.

No, S35Vn does not hold a fine edge as long as 20CV/M390!

What I meant was that it holds a fine edge for a long time through a lot of cutting of various materials, but like 20CV/M390 when it loses that fine edge, that's it. No "working edge".....

Also, like 20CV/M390 when you hit metal, stone, (things you shouldn't) the edge simply folds/rolls which is desired over chipping.
 
Thin edge most likely. Carpet is worse than cardboard for a knife edge. Just another reason I use my sharpmaker as I can keep my original tough edge blade geometry. No thinning the edge and micro bevel crap. A good 40 degree bevel will outlast a 30 degree bevel anyday. Though it might not feel as hair popping sharp.
 
For some tasks the good old utility knife is still the champ. Razor blades and throw them away for a new when they begin to dull for a new razor edge.
 
Steel_Addiction said:
I threw a shoe at a goose earlier today, it just bounced right off of it, out of desperation I grabbed my shotgun and blasted at the goose, and it embarrassed the shoe...
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Whaha..... Great analogy[emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
All of my CRKs are used for EDC tasks. If I am faced with a task like cutting carpet, wood, or lots and lots of tougher material (plastic), I usually reach for a cheaper, specialized tool. No reason to abuse a $400+ knife when I can abuse a $10 utility blade.

With that being said, I've found the edge retention on the 59-60 S35VN to be impressive for EDC use. It took two years of fairly frequent use to dull my Large Insingo to the point where I felt it needed a spa treatment.
 
on_the_edge said:
As has been posted, the CRK heat treat has been changed since the end of 2013 to provide a higher hardness. *snip*
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That's when they started, but some blade's were still the older 58-59 hardness as late as last summer.
Here's one on the exchange at 58-59 with a date of 6-15-2015 for example.
...http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1422100-CRK-Large-Sebenza-21-Double-lug

I assume they make some blades up to a year or more before they use them. I've also seen others from last year that were 58-59.
 
hhmoore said:
I can't help but think that the carpet being rolled ("nice and tight", and taped) was a contributing factor.
I do understand being disappointed that your 25 didn't handle the job; but, at the same time, it doesn't seem like the right knife for the task.
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The right tool for the job probably would have been a $2 box cutter with break away blades. But then, it kind of begs the question, why is a sharp $400 knife in S35V, with a thin hollow ground edge and pointy profile, less able to take the work than a $2 box cutter? Sure the box cutter is inherently thinner, but the edge still matters.

The reality is the knife failed at a perfectly reasonable task... To which I would add that the thin boxy handle shape did not seem to contribute to its ergonomics...

My advice to CRK would be to at least try a few runs in 440C or D-2, and see if this kind of thing comes up...

Gaston
 
Ken44 said:
That's when they started, but some blade's were still the older 58-59 hardness as late as last summer.
Here's one on the exchange at 58-59 with a date of 6-15-2015 for example.
...http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1422100-CRK-Large-Sebenza-21-Double-lug

I assume they make some blades up to a year or more before they use them. I've also seen others from last year that were 58-59.
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It's buried in this forum somewhere, but the issue is they changed the heat treat and did not update the cards until much later, so there are a massive number of 59-60 blades out there with 58-59 birth cards, as well as the interim cards with the white-out changing it to 59-60.
 
No offense Justin, but I'm going to call you out on this thread. I know you are aware already about the upgrade to the heat treat. In fact you are so aware you even stated in this thread (post number 2 - March 20th, 2016): http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1379163-Cutler-versus-Knives?highlight=whiteout "Side note, the whiteout bugs me. I'm thinking of asking to have correct cards sent to me. Not sure yet." that you were considering sending your birthcards back in for the correct heat treat rather than the whiteout. This is one of several occasions in the past you discussed the new heat treat level. So, remember the forums have long memories. Don't go promoting some CPK delta heat treat 3V thing your are stoked about on this forum, while pretending your CRK let you down and some miracle product slayed the material with ease. It shows poor form. If you start with a white lie "any news on a heat treat change? Chris has really stuck to his guns" etc etc, how can we trust the rest of your story?
 
kidcongo said:
No offense Justin, but I'm going to call you out on this thread. I know you are aware already about the upgrade to the heat treat. In fact you are so aware you even stated in this thread (post number 2 - March 20th, 2016): http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1379163-Cutler-versus-Knives?highlight=whiteout "Side note, the whiteout bugs me. I'm thinking of asking to have correct cards sent to me. Not sure yet." that you were considering sending your birthcards back in for the correct heat treat rather than the whiteout. This is one of several occasions in the past you discussed the new heat treat level. So, remember the forums have long memories. Don't go promoting some CPK delta heat treat 3V thing your are stoked about on this forum, while pretending your CRK let you down and some miracle product slayed the material with ease. It shows poor form. If you start with a white lie "any news on a heat treat change? Chris has really stuck to his guns" etc etc, how can we trust the rest of your story?
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It's quite obvious that Justin has an issue with CRK. 99% of his posts here in the CRK forum are some kind of gripe, backhanded slight, or a repeat of a gripe or backhanded slight. Plus, he's now a steel expert since he's been on the CPK forum :rolleyes: Dont get me wrong, I like the CPK knives, too, but it doesn't make me a steel expert. There's a reason that all sorts of different tools are made in this world. You just have to be smart enough to choose the right one for the job.
 
Ken44 said:
I assume they make some blades up to a year or more before they use them.
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I don't know about that. If (as I've heard) each blade is made for each specific handle, and if each CRK model is produced in batches (which I *think* they are), it wouldn't make sense to make a bunch of blades and leave them sitting for a year before putting them into a product.

Jim
 
Gaston444 said:
The right tool for the job probably would have been a $2 box cutter with break away blades. But then, it kind of begs the question, why is a sharp $400 knife in S35V, with a thin hollow ground edge and pointy profile, less able to take the work than a $2 box cutter? Sure the box cutter is inherently thinner, but the edge still matters.

The reality is the knife failed at a perfectly reasonable task... To which I would add that the thin boxy handle shape did not seem to contribute to its ergonomics...

My advice to CRK would be to at least try a few runs in 440C or D-2, and see if this kind of thing comes up...

Gaston
Click to expand...

Um, right tool for the right job?

A box cutter's blade is shaped and angled for such a job more efficiently than other types of blades, expensive or not. And in general, a flat blade like a 'razor' knife or a full flat-ground blade would get through something like thick carpet easier anyway.

By the same token, there are many tasks that the CRK will be far superior at handling than a box cutter. But didn't you admit elsewhere that you've never even handled much less owned and used a CRK?

Jim
 
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James Y said:
I don't know about that. If (as I've heard) each blade is made for each specific handle, and if each CRK model is produced in batches (which I *think* they are), it wouldn't make sense to make a bunch of blades and leave them sitting for a year before putting them into a product.

Jim
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You can even find them with different years on the handle slabs. They don't make the blades to match each set of slabs, but rather fit them in the later stages of production.
 
kidcongo said:
It's buried in this forum somewhere, but the issue is they changed the heat treat and did not update the cards until much later, so there are a massive number of 59-60 blades out there with 58-59 birth cards, as well as the interim cards with the white-out changing it to 59-60.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, now I remember reading about those. Thanks for the reminder....lord knows I need them at times :p

kidcongo said:
No offense Justin, but I'm going to call you out on this thread. I know you are aware already about the upgrade to the heat treat. In fact you are so aware you even stated in this thread (post number 2 - March 20th, 2016): http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1379163-Cutler-versus-Knives?highlight=whiteout "Side note, the whiteout bugs me. I'm thinking of asking to have correct cards sent to me. Not sure yet." that you were considering sending your birthcards back in for the correct heat treat rather than the whiteout. This is one of several occasions in the past you discussed the new heat treat level. So, remember the forums have long memories. Don't go promoting some CPK delta heat treat 3V thing your are stoked about on this forum, while pretending your CRK let you down and some miracle product slayed the material with ease. It shows poor form. If you start with a white lie "any news on a heat treat change? Chris has really stuck to his guns" etc etc, how can we trust the rest of your story?
Click to expand...

Just Wow !
He knew the HT had been upped, and then started a thread like this !?!?!
 
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