Fonly,
I am like Eric i.e. my pack overflows. Can we see what you pack for a week-end vs a week long trip?
Thanks,
lester
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Any ultralight backpackers?
- Thread starter mdarby
- Start date
Fonly,
I am like Eric i.e. my pack overflows. Can we see what you pack for a week-end vs a week long trip?
Thanks,
lester
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2007
- Messages
- 5,483
I've been known to run off into the woods, either leaving my car in a tourist camping area or just having someone drop me off and telling them where to pick me up in a couple of days, with nothing on my but my clothes I have, my knife or two, and a gun. I always at least take a good knife with me that I can use to make shelter if I don't find any natural shelter, clean my food with, and perform other tasks. Usually I'll take at the very least a handgun just in case. Sometimes I'll take a rifle if I want to have a meat feast one night or if there are predators in the area that a simple handgun would take too long to neutralize. It's pretty fun. I don't recomend it if you're taking anyone with you, especially a significant other. (They have a tendancy to whine a bit much) It's fun though. The North GA mountains is a good place to do it. At the very least though, I have some form of disinfectant and soap stowed away. If I'm going out with a group, I'll pack a decent amount, but it never gets to be more than one regular backpack. Sometimes I have to lug a rope around with me.
Sorry that is a crock #$%#.
I also am into ultralight gear. My SAR pack 15 yrs ago weighed 55lbs+. Today it weighs 30-40 depending. THe minimum I would ever go a week with is 25 lbs all in.
But dont worry the teams will converge on you with extra gear for you we had to hump in with nare a broken bone. If you are still breathing when we get there, good for you, my proper sleeping bag, pad, food and clothes are for you to use..
Sorry but this 5lb pack thing is beyond retarded.
Skam
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2003
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- 13,182
I would agree with Bear. I am not a lightweight (I don't think). My pack with food usually weighs around 20 lbs. Can go up to 25 or 26 if I have to carry a gallon of water.
However I totally agree with him that the heavier your pack is the more that your adventure becomes a hike to your next camp rather than an adventure in itself.
I'm old and fat but I find I am often in the front of a group because I am carrying less.
The things I usually carry that would add extra weight are a hatchet(but usually no stove) non dehydrated food(but lighter stuff) a 3 lb tent(because it's usually my wife and I)
Not sure what exactly it is that people carrying that is heavier that makes them safer, but most first aid and other stuff like that is not that heavy.
The amount of gear you should carry is inversely proportional to your skill level. If you think you need a sleeping bag and a tent and will die without it, you probably should be carrying 40 or 50 lbs. You also need more dirt time. I travel lightly most of the time, but I'm too cheap to buy the superlight titanium stuff. I wouldn't recommend leaving the hatchet/machete and multitool ever, and certainly not to get below some magic number of pounds.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
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- 3,130
Skam,
I have a question for you. How many people do you go and get on SAR missions that are lightweight/ultralighters vs the average 40 lb pack people?
I have a question for you. How many people do you go and get on SAR missions that are lightweight/ultralighters vs the average 40 lb pack people?
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2006
- Messages
- 293
NO DOUBT! I remember in basic training we did a 5 mile "jog" (10 miles round trip )with 50lb packs on and it was'nt too bad ( about 8 years ago ) now about a month ago I did a 3 mile trail with 45-55lbs of weight (mosty due to a climbing rope)scrambling up some serious class 4 terrain and after that I said to myself: THATS IT, I'M NEVER GOING WITH MORE THAN 20 POUNDS AGAIN!
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2006
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- 2,194
I'm an ultralight hiker, in fact you will find my name on the masthead at www.backpackinglight.com.
The difference in my kit from overnight to multi-day is just consumables: fuel, food, sunscreen, bug repellent, toilet paper. For a long trip another pair of socks would be great and allow getting the spare pair really dry.
I have serious issues with hikers cutting back too far on basic survival gear, but you can apply the same principles to your PSK as the rest of your gear to lighten up. I'll throw around a few concepts:
1. You don't need to fear nature: you need to understand it and use it to your advantage. Knowing how to navigate, start a fire, make a shelter, and find food and water will go a long ways. Fearing nature and not understanding the physics of staying warm and dry is what makes a lot of people haul too much gear, or gear that is far heavier than needed. You are not in combat!
2. Maximize the performance of every item in your PSK. You can certainly get by with a stout knife and the list of essentials that all hikers should have. IMHO, the idea that you need a big chopper is just as flakey as going out with something like a Leatherman Micra or an SAK Classic (the favorites of UL hikers). Going with a 4" knife leaves you weight to spare for other PSK items that will save your bacon. Hikers say "hike your own hike" and you can haul whatever pleases you, but the idea that you are under-equipped unless you have 50 pounds of gear and a 7" knife is just plain BS.
3. Take only what is necessary. This is the core of UL hking concepts. You don't need four cutting tools, etc. If you can't build a basic shelter and gather some firewood without big tools, you need more training.
All said, you can put together a very effective PSK that is well under a pound. Your normal hiking kit will take care of most scenarios, keeping you sheltered and dry. IMHO, you do need a good knife, a decent first aid kit, and a PSK with signalling devices, back-up compass, fishing and snare gear, and serveral forms of fire starting with tinder. My latest PSK covers all those bases and more at 13 ounces and a fist-sized package. For a knife, I take a Benchmade Griptilian on the light side, with an SAK Outlander, mora, or Fallkniven F1 as larger/heavier options. I might add a folding saw for winter use.
As far as UL gear in general, you will find folks who like to tackle the challenge of getting their kit as light as possible. Some have base loads under five pounds (a base load does not include consumables like water, food, and fuel, nor gear that is worn). My own summer kit is more like 12 pounds base weight and 21-22 pounds with water and food for three days.
The process of building an UL kit is to weigh each and every item in your pack, find as many multiple use products as possible and to find the lightest products to fill each need. Each and every item is thoroughly scrutinzed. Some of this might seem anal, but if you can chop 1/2 here and there, it all multiplies and the weigh comes down.
You will see the Big 3 mentioned. They are pack, shelter, and sleeping bag. I think of the Big 4, adding clothing, which I think takes more change in thinking than other aspects of UL gear. Lighten your pack last, as you accumulate lighter gear. Most UL pack are designed to haul less than 30 pounds and the lighter ones are made with sub-20 pound loads in mind.
You can start by taking only what you will actually use. If there is something you don't use each trip, it doesn't go. Rather than taking a 3oz bottle of bug repellent, you put enough for your trip in a smaller bottle. Rather than taking a 2 pound multi-layer Gore-Tex parka, you take an 11 ounce poncho that is also your shelter. Your trekking poles are your tent poles. Clothing is chosen for maximum performance and layering. Windshirts are popular clothing, with some weighing as little as 2 ounces. The windshirt is combined with polyester base layers and polyfill or down insulation layers. Each can be worn alone or in combination. Sleeping bags are chosen with the option of wearing several layers of clothing to sleep in. When you lighten your gear, you pack can be lighter--- my "heavy" pack is 23oz and my day pack is a pound. With the lighter load, you can ear lighter foot gear. The standard footgear for UL hiking is a pair of trail runners. My old feet have some issues, so I use some UL boots that are just 19oz each vs. my "heavy" winter boots that are 27oz each. Saving weight on your shoes means not lifting that weight thousands of times per mile.
Backpackinglight.com is a great resource. The book Lightweight Backpacking & Camping by the owner of the web site is the state of the art manual for UL hiking.
The difference in my kit from overnight to multi-day is just consumables: fuel, food, sunscreen, bug repellent, toilet paper. For a long trip another pair of socks would be great and allow getting the spare pair really dry.
I have serious issues with hikers cutting back too far on basic survival gear, but you can apply the same principles to your PSK as the rest of your gear to lighten up. I'll throw around a few concepts:
1. You don't need to fear nature: you need to understand it and use it to your advantage. Knowing how to navigate, start a fire, make a shelter, and find food and water will go a long ways. Fearing nature and not understanding the physics of staying warm and dry is what makes a lot of people haul too much gear, or gear that is far heavier than needed. You are not in combat!
2. Maximize the performance of every item in your PSK. You can certainly get by with a stout knife and the list of essentials that all hikers should have. IMHO, the idea that you need a big chopper is just as flakey as going out with something like a Leatherman Micra or an SAK Classic (the favorites of UL hikers). Going with a 4" knife leaves you weight to spare for other PSK items that will save your bacon. Hikers say "hike your own hike" and you can haul whatever pleases you, but the idea that you are under-equipped unless you have 50 pounds of gear and a 7" knife is just plain BS.
3. Take only what is necessary. This is the core of UL hking concepts. You don't need four cutting tools, etc. If you can't build a basic shelter and gather some firewood without big tools, you need more training.
All said, you can put together a very effective PSK that is well under a pound. Your normal hiking kit will take care of most scenarios, keeping you sheltered and dry. IMHO, you do need a good knife, a decent first aid kit, and a PSK with signalling devices, back-up compass, fishing and snare gear, and serveral forms of fire starting with tinder. My latest PSK covers all those bases and more at 13 ounces and a fist-sized package. For a knife, I take a Benchmade Griptilian on the light side, with an SAK Outlander, mora, or Fallkniven F1 as larger/heavier options. I might add a folding saw for winter use.
As far as UL gear in general, you will find folks who like to tackle the challenge of getting their kit as light as possible. Some have base loads under five pounds (a base load does not include consumables like water, food, and fuel, nor gear that is worn). My own summer kit is more like 12 pounds base weight and 21-22 pounds with water and food for three days.
The process of building an UL kit is to weigh each and every item in your pack, find as many multiple use products as possible and to find the lightest products to fill each need. Each and every item is thoroughly scrutinzed. Some of this might seem anal, but if you can chop 1/2 here and there, it all multiplies and the weigh comes down.
You will see the Big 3 mentioned. They are pack, shelter, and sleeping bag. I think of the Big 4, adding clothing, which I think takes more change in thinking than other aspects of UL gear. Lighten your pack last, as you accumulate lighter gear. Most UL pack are designed to haul less than 30 pounds and the lighter ones are made with sub-20 pound loads in mind.
You can start by taking only what you will actually use. If there is something you don't use each trip, it doesn't go. Rather than taking a 3oz bottle of bug repellent, you put enough for your trip in a smaller bottle. Rather than taking a 2 pound multi-layer Gore-Tex parka, you take an 11 ounce poncho that is also your shelter. Your trekking poles are your tent poles. Clothing is chosen for maximum performance and layering. Windshirts are popular clothing, with some weighing as little as 2 ounces. The windshirt is combined with polyester base layers and polyfill or down insulation layers. Each can be worn alone or in combination. Sleeping bags are chosen with the option of wearing several layers of clothing to sleep in. When you lighten your gear, you pack can be lighter--- my "heavy" pack is 23oz and my day pack is a pound. With the lighter load, you can ear lighter foot gear. The standard footgear for UL hiking is a pair of trail runners. My old feet have some issues, so I use some UL boots that are just 19oz each vs. my "heavy" winter boots that are 27oz each. Saving weight on your shoes means not lifting that weight thousands of times per mile.
Backpackinglight.com is a great resource. The book Lightweight Backpacking & Camping by the owner of the web site is the state of the art manual for UL hiking.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2007
- Messages
- 5,483
I'll tell you this much. I learned this years ago. No matter what the size of your pack, if you want to cut down on some space and yet still be really comfortable on your adventure, pack a few of the soft packs of baby whipes. You'll thank me.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 2,845
Depending on where you are, more gear isn't going to do you any good unless you're bringing a cabin and three cords of firewood. People in full-on Everest assault gear have frozen in their tents on Mt. Washington (New Hampshire). At the other extreme, you have back-to-nature survivalists that could walk into the woods naked and make everything they need.
IMO, your brain is your most important piece of gear in the woods. After that, you need to match your equipment to the environment you'll be in, the activities you want to do, and your desired level of comfort. Often, this last one adds the most weight. A small tent can be just as weather worthy as a big four-season shelter, at the expense of a little head room. A quilt can be just as warm as a jumbo-sized sleeping bag. I can't speak to gear in the sub-4 lb. range, but 10-15 lbs of gear can make you just as surviveable as 50+lbs. I have weathered a few nasty, unseasonable storms in a well-pitched tarp.
Bringing this back to knives, a Gerber LST is about as light as I go (1 oz, 2.5" blade?). Plenty capable of whittling fuzz sticks to start a fire. There's also a wire saw in my gear, in case of emergencies. Although fire building requires that you get down below tree line, which will happen much faster with a 20 lb. pack and is negated in the broken leg scenario.
IMO, your brain is your most important piece of gear in the woods. After that, you need to match your equipment to the environment you'll be in, the activities you want to do, and your desired level of comfort. Often, this last one adds the most weight. A small tent can be just as weather worthy as a big four-season shelter, at the expense of a little head room. A quilt can be just as warm as a jumbo-sized sleeping bag. I can't speak to gear in the sub-4 lb. range, but 10-15 lbs of gear can make you just as surviveable as 50+lbs. I have weathered a few nasty, unseasonable storms in a well-pitched tarp.
Bringing this back to knives, a Gerber LST is about as light as I go (1 oz, 2.5" blade?). Plenty capable of whittling fuzz sticks to start a fire. There's also a wire saw in my gear, in case of emergencies. Although fire building requires that you get down below tree line, which will happen much faster with a 20 lb. pack and is negated in the broken leg scenario.
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- Sep 3, 2007
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- 831
Lightweight backing has become a religion in some circles. HaHa, I'm lighter than you !!!Why not carry nothing and sleep on the ground and eat cold candy bars then you would be the "lightest".Comfort should be your first consideration. Keep the weight reasonable. You can find a great tent, a lightweight sleeping bag, small butane stove, a few pots, dried food, your survival kit and favorite knives and other necessary gear and be well under 30 lbs for a two day weekend. If you buddy up you split the gear. Water can be the greatest weight to carry in some areas. So you are near water use a filter and tabs. Mosquitoes, rain, cold spell, all can misery to the unprepared camper.
That works until the wipes freeze. Ask me how I know.
This is again dependant on terrain, weather, and your reasons for being out. It is fine on a survival expedition, or UL outing, but stinks if there are drastic changes in the weather, or your camp will continue to change from one day to the next, or if you are dealing w/ hordes of mosquitos.
UL seems like it works best when you are whittling away things you didn't need in the first place. It does not work when you are trying to take away things that you did need in order to reduce your pack weight.
Taking a machete or folding saw rather than a hatchet in certain conditions can be a good thing. Less weight AND less money.
Leaving the mess kit at home is a good thing.
Turning your first aid kit into a pair of bandaids, and going the last few miles w/out water in order to save weight is silly.
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That works until the wipes freeze. Ask me how I know.
HAHAHAHA! That sucks dude. Luckily I've never run into that problem. When my friend Joel was going through the special forces selection, he said that he couldn't understand why I insisted on the soft packs of whipes. He bought the big container and tucked it in the ruck. The first draw he got to during land nav, he found out why. He fell a pretty good ways backwards and landed on his ruck. Everything he owned was pretty clean, but by the end of the event, he was known as "Candidate Stinky". LOL!
Just a matter of time Dog. A simple leg fracture in bad weather puts you into hypothermia and shock without real gear to buy you time.
I drag bodies out with more gear than you due to unforseen accidents.
Skam
I agree somewhat. I know a girl who does recovery stuff, and she tells stories of victims who have little or no gear, and perhaps it didn't matter if they had more gear, they made poor decisions that cost them their lives.
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- Feb 3, 2006
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- 8,250
I think some ultralighters are crazy. A lot of them don't take anything to process wood. Saw, hatchet, or stout knife should be in everyone's gear IMO. Although this would be area dependant of course. You can build a shelter and start a fire in most circumstances without these tools but not at the same speed. If I'm wet and cold I want the shelter and fire now, not in a few hours.
I'm an ultralighter, and can't see that I toy with my safety at all;
My gear includes tarp, poncho, hammock, underquilt and top quilt, warm clothes, half length foam mat etc.
I figure if temps ever drop below my comfort, I will use my poncho as a groundsheet, lie on my mat with both quilts on top of me. This will easily take me to -5C (the coldest I am ever likely to see!).
I am remote area 1st aid qualified and carry a sufficient (but light) FAK and the skills necessary to use it.
More importantly (I think) I carry the knowledge of how to use my equipment to best effect. I know how to rig a tarp, sleep warm, light a fire in the rain without matches etc.
Give a beginner all the equipment in the world, and without experience, that 50lb of gear isn't going to ensure either an enjoyable trip or a safe one.
But I can only talk from my own experience.
My gear includes tarp, poncho, hammock, underquilt and top quilt, warm clothes, half length foam mat etc.
I figure if temps ever drop below my comfort, I will use my poncho as a groundsheet, lie on my mat with both quilts on top of me. This will easily take me to -5C (the coldest I am ever likely to see!).
I am remote area 1st aid qualified and carry a sufficient (but light) FAK and the skills necessary to use it.
More importantly (I think) I carry the knowledge of how to use my equipment to best effect. I know how to rig a tarp, sleep warm, light a fire in the rain without matches etc.
Give a beginner all the equipment in the world, and without experience, that 50lb of gear isn't going to ensure either an enjoyable trip or a safe one.
But I can only talk from my own experience.
Just a matter of time Dog
I drag bodies out with more gear than you due to unforseen accidents.
Sounds like having more gear didn't help in those "unforseen" accidents. So how does that point prove that UL is an accident waiting to happen? Sounds like your argument supports experience as the key factor. I have found "in general" dedicated UL's have more experience then your average weekend warrior that just went on a shopping spree at REI. Just like some of the best rock and ice climbers I've met and seen go solo and unprotected.
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- Nov 27, 2002
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- 2,145
On the opposite end of the scale what's the heaviest you've ever packed?
Working for the BLM about 20 years ago we had to pack out after a fire all of our equipment. Mine was about 85#.
In the Service I had a 70# pack one march...and an M60...that was heavy.
Working for the BLM about 20 years ago we had to pack out after a fire all of our equipment. Mine was about 85#.
In the Service I had a 70# pack one march...and an M60...that was heavy.
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- Mar 19, 2007
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- 664
IMO there is a big misconception on this forum about what ultra-light means. To me ultra light is not sacraficing useful gear, it is just finding lighter versions. For example as an ultra light hiker I dont attempt to take a tarp instead of a tent. I may look into bringing a bivvy or a tent that is just large enough and no more. I also may take a water bottle that doubles as a cooking pot as opposed to bringing along a nalgene and a cooking pot seperatly. In this sense of ultra-light, there is no added risk or danger. However, if you start saying you don't need a fixed blade, you don't need a tent, you don't need an extra set of warm clothes, then you are added additional risk.
I feel that it also depends on your skills and knowledge. For example, if you know how to cook on a stick fire, you don't need to bring along your gas camp stove. This also does not add must risk, unless the wood is so wet you cant start a fire.
Just my .02
I feel that it also depends on your skills and knowledge. For example, if you know how to cook on a stick fire, you don't need to bring along your gas camp stove. This also does not add must risk, unless the wood is so wet you cant start a fire.
Just my .02