Any ultralight backpackers?

[Cpl Punishment]

Generally I canoe camp which is as far from ultralight as one can get, crap I bet my Monarch 4 pack goes a clean 8lbs plus by its self.

Those are nice packs! I use a Hudson Bay pack (they don't make it anymore, unfortunately). The main pack is the same size as the #4 Monarch, but has slip pockets and 4 D-rings on each side instead of the long pockets.



IMO, some things are worth the weight, which is where I break company with anything that could be considered ultralight.

For instance, I've seen too many ultralight packs go straps up and take a dump on the trail. Yes, I'd rather take the weight of a bombproof pack. I'd rather pacl the weight of a jungle hammock and rainfly than live with a tarp and poncho. I'd rather pack a pound of water filter and not have to drink iodine water. I'd rather pack a sleeping bag in winter than sleep on the cold ground on top of a poncho with a couple of quilts.

I usually don't need cookware, but if I decide to bring food that needs cooking or am going to hunt/fish, then I'll take a one pound stainless pot for $20 over an 8 oz titanium pot for $90 (ok, that one's a cost issue, although stainless distributes heat much better than titanium, which means you can get away with a smaller fire). I really don't see where 35# is going to kill someone. Seriously, if you can't carry that much, what shape are you in (rhetorical question, not aimed at anyone)?

Other things don't make sense. Is it really that much harder to carry a 7" knife over a 4" knife? Is 2 pounds of hatchet or kukri really going to kill you? Nom it won't. Do you NEED it to make shelter? No, not really, but it sure makes it faster and easier.

It also depends on your intentions. If you're trying to cover as many miles as possible, then sure, every ounce counts. If your goal is to hike, enjoy the scenery and still be comfortable in camp, then 35-40 pounds isn't out of line. Sometimes we like to go for a week, or go canoe camping. Yeah, we'll pack up 80 pound rucks and go for it. But then, they get packed in and go do any treking from your basecamp, and don't hump the whole load, so, again, it's no problem.

 

[DaleW]

....More importantly (I think) I carry the knowledge of how to use my equipment to best effect. I know how to rig a tarp, sleep warm, light a fire in the rain without matches etc.
Give a beginner all the equipment in the world, and without experience, that 50lb of gear isn't going to ensure either an enjoyable trip or a safe one....

Exactly. Going ultralight doesn't mean going without and you still need to know how to take care of yourself.

Contrary to what others have said here, ultralight gear isn't any more expensive than heavier gear, and in many cases costs less. And there are plenty of bug-proof shelter options. Getting lost or injured has nothing to do with the weight of your gear unless you are dumb enough to travel without map and compass. Running out of food is just poor planning and I never forgo water to save weight.

I don't know why anyone would feel threatened by the idea of lightening their load. There's nothing manly or smart in carrying a bigger load than you need to. In most cases getting an UL kit together is just using some modern materials, good use of the laws of physics, and a little common sense.

 

[bearthedog]

Some of my gear that works for me.

 

[bearthedog]

Camp

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I don't know why anyone would feel threatened by the idea of lightening their load. There's nothing manly or smart in carrying a bigger load than you need to.

I don't think people feel threatened by the idea of lightening their load. It's probably a knee-jerk reaction to being inundated with UL guys that go around being arrogant irritants telling everyone else how stupid they are for carrying more than 12 pounds. Sorry, but a lot of that type DO skimp on stuff just to make the point of how "manly" they are by doing without. Also, they usually are the guys that insist you need a $600 UL backpack or you're an amateur. Or tell you that there's no way you're an experienced backpacker if you don't cut your toothbrush in half.

Most o fthe UL guys that have posted seem to be levelheaded and not following the above description, and to be honest, that surprised me. A good attitude, and having reasons beyond "I'm a stud for not bringing gear" seems to be the exception, not the rule.

My outlook is a bit different. Like I said, I like bombproof. But I also don't like 80 pounds of gear. I find that if you do not skimp at all on the necessities, and just forego the snivel gear, that will GREATLY reduce your pack weight.

 

[hollowdweller]

I love those platypus bottles!

I have a number of them.

Also if you buy the "hoser" hydration hose you can take the drinking end off and it will fit right on the Katydyn water filter outlet.

One place I think you can save weight is if you have several people coming each person can take some of the heavy stuff. For 3 or 4 people (or more?) you only really need 1 water filter. one person can carry the cooking pots.:thumbup:

In summer I usually have a "hiking" set of clothes I wear every day. Then when I get to camp I have a "camp" set of clothing I keep in a plastic bag to keep totally dry. Usually carry 2 sets of socks for a 4 day trip.


There's a book called "Lighten Up" it's a really good book for making you think about how to economize on weight.

 

[DaleW]

. .... Also, they usually are the guys that insist you need a $600 UL backpack or you're an amateur. Or tell you that there's no way you're an experienced backpacker if you don't cut your toothbrush in half.....

I guess I haven't met those people yet, but you can find a jackass in any crowd, so I'm not surprised. Everyone wants to promote their own "religion" as the only way. The best hiking philosophy I've heard is "hike your own hike."


BTW, there are no $600 ultralight backpacks. I don't think you can find one that is over $200 and some of the best are under $100. Likewise tents and shelters. Trail runners are far cheaper than heavy boots. Some of the sleeping bags and insulated clothing are steep, but you can find "bombproof" stuff at Cabela's or REI that is every bit as spendy.

Some people really get into the game of seeing how far they can go and play around with five pound base loads. As long as they are risking only their own butt, so be it. I got into it with one guy who was running an ultralight hiking class and recommending going out in the woods without proper gear. I said he was "irresponsible" and he just about pee'd his pants. You can do anything you want by yourself, but I draw the line involving others who don't know better, let alone touting yourself as an expert and shelling out BS.

I'll agree that some think masochism is manly and I'd equate those who think going without is cool are just as kinked as those who think a heavy load is character building. I'm going out on the woods to relax and enjoy myself, to take in the sights and sounds, not to be miserable.

 

[nemoaz]

My outlook is a bit different. Like I said, I like bombproof.

Me too. But I think that is more because I'm use to military style gear (Poncho & Poncho Liner Living 101) due to familiarity, I guess, and also due to me being a cheaparse and having plenty of that stuff still around.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

BTW, there are no $600 ultralight backpacks. I don't think you can find one that is over $200 and some of the best are under $100. Likewise tents and shelters. Trail runners are far cheaper than heavy boots. Some of the sleeping bags and insulated clothing are steep, but you can find "bombproof" stuff at Cabela's or REI that is every bit as spendy.

Probably just a bad pack of wannabes around me then. i never looked much into their gear, but you can bet whatever got the highest rankings and cost the most fromt he latest issue of Backpacker is what they claim you have to have or you'll die.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with spending money if it's for good gear. IF someone wants to drop a grand on a Kifaru pack with all the bells and whistles, I'm good with it because they are pretty much indestructable and worth the $$, IMO. But when they brag about a $600 (ok, it was $585) pack they just bought from the "must have" list just because it's light, and it dumps all their gear out 5 miles down the trail, then that's foolish, IMO.

 

[DaleW]

Probably just a bad pack of wannabes around me then. i never looked much into their gear, but you can bet whatever got the highest rankings and cost the most fromt he latest issue of Backpacker is what they claim you have to have or you'll die.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with spending money if it's for good gear. IF someone wants to drop a grand on a Kifaru pack with all the bells and whistles, I'm good with it because they are pretty much indestructable and worth the $$, IMO. But when they brag about a $600 (ok, it was $585) pack they just bought from the "must have" list just because it's light, and it dumps all their gear out 5 miles down the trail, then that's foolish, IMO.

IMHO, Backpacker magazine is just an editorial showcase for their advertizers. I haven't seen more than a couple articles where anyone knew their stuff about ultralight techniques. You have to remember that ultralight gear is a niche market and mostly supported by mom-pop-garage businesses turning out gear. If you look at the major advertizers at Backpacker, you will find big outdoor conglomerates like K2. If you want a good lesson in the outdoor gear market, take a look at the companies owned by K2-- you will be surprized.


Now that I think about it, the ultralighters I know are pretty frugal and many make their own gear. There are plenty of "fashionistas" on the trail, so I'm not surprised by much. There is nothing offered by Kifaru that I would take a second look at on an ultralight basis. Their 3200ci hunting pack is 4 pounds-- a joke to an ultralighter-- my 3200ci pack is 20 ounces and I bought it for $50 on a closeout. I wish I had the spare change to be able to dump $600 on a pack! Most of my gear has come from garage sales, thrift stores, Craig's list, and gear swaps. I do brag on my bargains.

I've seen the same mindset with cars, cameras, and computers. Ski gear is an even better comparison-- use it for one season and dump it. You can pick just about any kind of gear and find those who have to have the latest gizmo and look at it like some sort of techno-jewelry. I've been a late adopter and happily pick off the deals from those who are shedding year old technology to get the latest thing. The idea of spending $3k on a wristwatch is just plain obscene, IMHO.

 

[skammer]

As long as they are risking only their own butt, so be it.

If this was true it would be fine but people like me are at risk when we have to go looking for people. Something as simple as a badly twisted ankle will put me into the woods and that is not cool with me or my family.

There are real accidents and then there is dumb.

Skam

 

[Codger_64]

Skam, this is a thin line we all walk. If you don't like the risks you take for others do something else. I did.

I am, perhaps too much so, a proponent of personal responsibility. The government is not my daddy. If I die of dumb, then I die of dumb. If I slip in the bathtub, or get caught in a strainer on a remote river, dead is dead. It is not the government's duty or obligation to restrict my activities, or how I conduct them to what they deem is safe, or convenient for them.

Skam, thank you for your service. I understand your perspective, I really do. There was a time when I risked early death to rescue non-existant people from burning houses, find old men who wandered off into the woods or fishermen whose boats sunk and extract people from wrecked cars. I know what it is like to rail against tragic consequences to people's sometimes unfathomable decisions. But I believe that the freedom I enjoy is also the freedom to risk my life for some off the wall activity if I so desire. People die every day. The lucky ones, IMHO, do so doiung somethig that they enjoy. Otherwise, let's outlaw motorcycles, skydiving, NASCAR, and hunting and fishing. Anything where a person might need rescue. Or recovery.

Codger - Solo winter wilderness canoe tripper

 

[skammer]

If you don't like the risks you take for others do something else. I did.

Codg, this is not a crap session really.

I do it because I enjoy it and I am VERY good at it. This does not make the risk any less. If in fact it is a true accident or an innocent the risk does not matter to me.

If in fact it is due to irresponsible or dumb actions I have a problem.

This past Sat night 2:30 am I got the page for a 14 yr old girl gone missing near a campground. After searching 4 hrs in horrible terrain she was found in the city downtown drunk by police. Our teams had 4 injuries that could have been much worse.

To the credit of her parents they made her come to the large SAR HQ and appologize for the trouble and risk they put "VOLUNTEERS" through.

That is what I am talking about. I dont know what the circumstances are until later but rest assured I go to all calls no matter who is missing.

Sleep well.

Skam

 

[Strobengh]

If this was true it would be fine but people like me are at risk when we have to go looking for people. Something as simple as a badly twisted ankle will put me into the woods and that is not cool with me or my family.

There are real accidents and then there is dumb.

Skam

Ever heard the saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat?"

I've seen people carrying 50+ lbs on a 2 day hike get into trouble, and I've seen people carrying water and a jacket for a day hike get into trouble.

What a few have already said will always hold true:
Knowledge and experience are the most important things you can take with you into the woods . . . but no matter how prepared you are, stuff happens to all of us . . . that is where people like you come into play.


I appreciate what you do for others, but I don't think it is fair to offer a wholesale condemnation of ultra light backpackers simply because you don't agree with them. Have you ever considered the possibility that your opinions might not apply/be correct 100% of the time?

For some people, ultra light backpacking is probably a mistake . . . but then again there are some people for whom backpacking itself is a mistake.

 

[skammer]

Ever heard the saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat?"

Can you read, seriously?

I didnt condem anyone for going lightweight as long as they have some decent gear.

Hell, I go lightweight but I have gear for the unpredictable. This is what separates many on this forum from the reckless.

Skam

 

[DaleW]

If this was true it would be fine but people like me are at risk when we have to go looking for people. Something as simple as a badly twisted ankle will put me into the woods and that is not cool with me or my family.

There are real accidents and then there is dumb.

Skam

Agreed there. My old man was a fire fighter and risked his life for idiots who drove drunk, messed with their wiring and smoked in bed-- I know what you mean!

99% of the use of my first aid supplies while hiking has been to help others. You see people out all the time without a shred of equipment, let alone the essentials. The one time I got pissed was at Mt. Rainier when I saw a lady letting her little kids drink from a muddy little trickle running down the side of the hill-- not even a decent stream. My wife is an RN and told her what symptoms to look for when they got home. I mean, geeze, how hard it is to stop off at 7-11 and get some bottled water?

And as many have come to realize, all the equipment in the world won't help if the stuff above the eyebrows doesn't do the job

 

[will62]

Nothing wrong with cutting the weight of what you carry. It has been stated here multiple times that all the gear is worthless without knowledge. It comes down to what do you really need and how comfortable do you want to be?

I got the impression that the main concern was that this site did not mention anything about knives or other basic survival gear. I was on the site and did not see anything about knives.

I know lots of troops here who would be happy with only 50 pounds or less to carry.

 

[cgusek111]

These are the knives I carry.

 

[Shotgun]

The best hiking philosophy I've heard is "hike your own hike."

I like that saying too. I don't have anything against ULers and I try to lighten MY load as much as possible which is why I frequent those sites from time to time to learn. The difference I think, and present company excluded, is that there are some things that I don't even put into my weight calculations. Pretty much the things I wear. Clothes, knives, and boots I regard as front line survival gear so I take what I think I'll need no matter if it's 5 pounds or 15. I don't wear trail runners because I want to be able to go off trail and I don't think a 1 1/2" caribiner knife is appropriate. The clothes thing is admittedly a price thing but then again a pair of surplus wool pants can do as much if not more than 100 dollar top of the line super pants. Although I want super pants.

 

[skammer]

Agreed there. My old man was a fire fighter and risked his life for idiots who drove drunk, messed with their wiring and smoked in bed-- I know what you mean!

I have found a few times in the past years the attitude of dumb people is more in line with " I shouldnt have to carry gear or basic things only a cell phone as that is what SAR is for, to bail me out."

I wonder what the attitude would be knowing there is no rescue, SAR, fire or medic service and nobody is coming for you. I cant help but think the average dummy would actually think twice.

Another reason to charge for services depending on circumstance.

The security blanket attitude has to stop. PLB's make it even worse, sheeple think they are super human. The end of the day some people belong in a room with a nanny and dull plastic spoons not in the back 40.

Maybe its natural selection I dont know.

Skam