anybody know this Bob Legler

gatorforge said:
I have to go back to what another member said earlier, just a blade is not a knife, to be complete, to be a knife it has to have a handle too. Its one thing if you take an old Case folder and put new handles on it, then no you didn't make the knife, they did. If you take a piece of steel that is merely shaped, and add an edge and a handle, then yes you made the knife.
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A piece of steel that is merely shaped, do you mean a finished blade that only has to be sharpened and handled to be a complete knife? If that is what you mean then you have made the handle, not the knife. You have "completed" the knife. Some company in Japan or China made the blade. You have a factory blade with a hand applied handle, end of story.

When the Guild was formed, June 1970 the ONE requirment was that a maker MUST grind his own blade, could not use factory blades! This lasted for years until the inventor of the "tactical knife", a member of the board decided he could use pre-ground blades and put the guild on the down slide that it continues today. Putting handles on factory blades is a fine hobby (I was doing that 63-55 years ago) When you say you made the knife and sell it for hand made it is FRAUD and nothing else.

You do not have to lile to sell knives! A. G. Russell
 
gatorforge said:
I have to go back to what another member said earlier, just a blade is not a knife, to be complete, to be a knife it has to have a handle too. Its one thing if you take an old Case folder and put new handles on it, then no you didn't make the knife, they did. If you take a piece of steel that is merely shaped, and add an edge and a handle, then yes you made the knife.
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Sunshadow and A.G said it best , but I will add .

The blade makes the knife not the furniture .
Have you not seen a skeletonized knife ??
 
Jack,
did not know you were a knifemaker. for sale or hobby?
have not heard from you for almost 8 years, how you doing?

A. G.
 
One can purchase a guitar kit complete with pre-bent sides, assemble the guitar using multiple high craft skills and properly claim the title of guitar maker. Present the same guitar as "custom hand made" and it's a fraud.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Jack,
did not know you were a knifemaker. for sale or hobby?
have not heard from you for almost 8 years, how you doing?

A. G.
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Hey A.G , has been a long time . Had to stop buying , that was tuff but it helped when I stopped getting your catalog :D
Knifemaking started as a hobby and now is part time income . You know Deano , he has a few of mine .

Sorry for the short thread hi-jack
 
Sorry to repeat what's already been said, but... it's not a question of "stock-removal vs. forging", or even "production vs. handmade".

"Dancing around" questions is a sure sign of baloney-sausage. Openness about materials, sources and techniques inspires confidence.

I've assembled and sold a few kit knives. I took pride in my work and made damn sure the client knew exactly what they were getting and where the blades came from.

I've learned from, and about, many excellent makers, manufacturers and dealers from this forum and others. The one thing the best all have in common is taking pride in their product and providing clear information about it.
 
hey im not defending the guy I dont like him, and I dont use kits, I cut my own blades out of steel stock, but ya dont have to be so defensive about your work either man everybody's here because they have the same passion, no need to go around insulting other peoples work
 
if someone is finishing kits and selling them as handmade or blatantly implying that they are handmade, that is fraud and misrepresentation, labeling it as fraud is not insulting, it is stating fact.

-Page
 
A. G. Russell said:
A piece of steel that is merely shaped, do you mean a finished blade that only has to be sharpened and handled to be a complete knife? If that is what you mean then you have made the handle, not the knife. You have "completed" the knife. Some company in Japan or China made the blade. You have a factory blade with a hand applied handle, end of story.
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NO I mean a piece of steel that must be ground, heat treated, tempered, etc, etc. I understand your concern, like I said before I don't order my blades from china or japan, I cut them out of lawn mower blades and other steel scrap. I also don't use Jantz, so I don't know what they sell as far as blades and other materials, or how complete they are.
 
gatorforge said:
NO I mean a piece of steel that must be ground, heat treated, tempered, etc, etc. I understand your concern, like I said before I don't order my blades from china or japan, I cut them out of lawn mower blades and other steel scrap. I also don't use Jantz, so I don't know what they sell as far as blades and other materials, or how complete they are.
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In that case you are making your knife and as such are a knifemaker.

Personally I hope you graduate to using known alloy steel, I think you will be impressed by the difference in how your knives perform, and how easy it is to make them, but that's another discussion, and at the end of the day it's your work, and your choice of what you choose to build it from.

-Page
 
I do hope to be able to do that at some point I just don't have the money and equipment to forge my own blades, and don't know where I can get good steel from, unfortunately its one of those things home depot doesn't have.
 
Sticky said:
Seems to be a bunch of these.
We need a new classification it seems.
Kit finishers, assemblers, kit customizers, etc something that would eliminate any confusion.
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I think this is a really good idea. I put a whole lot of work into actually making the blade itself, be it stock removal or forging. To me it's like the difference between having the skill and talent to do oil paintings free hand or doing paint by numbers.
 
I hate to wade into the discussion, but.
The definition of custom posted earlier has no merit. "Custom" is something made for a specific client according to his needs or wishes and is not exclusively a customized version of an existing model.
The term handmade, as used by the subject of this thread, is misleading. Handmade, to me, implies by the maker.
In other parts of the world the "knifemaker" is not a blademaker and the blademaker is not a knifemaker. In Scandinavia for instance the knifemaker extolls the blade as being made by "so and so". This in no way diminishes the opinion of the maker as his skill is readily apparent in the finished product.
I like my work to be as much mine as possible and subscribe to the idea of sole authorship, but that is clearly opinion.
If the subject of this thread had been fortright with the OP this thread would not exist.
As buyers of handmade knives educate themselves they will be prepared to ask the right questions to find makers that fit their ideals.
It is apparent to me that honesty and straightforwardness are the most important issues in this discussion. Everything else aligns itself behind these ideals. If everything is disclosed the arguments become moot.

~Alden
 
Sticky said:
Seems to be a bunch of these.
We need a new classification it seems.
Kit finishers, assemblers, kit customizers, etc something that would eliminate any confusion.
Click to expand...

R.C.Reichert said:
I think this is a really good idea. I put a whole lot of work into actually making the blade itself, be it stock removal or forging. To me it's like the difference between having the skill and talent to do oil paintings free hand or doing paint by numbers.
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I totally agree. It would be great if there was an accepted scale of classifications (accepted at least by us on Shop Talk). Two or three very simple criteria for each level of classification. For example:

Bladesmith - forges and heat treats blades from unformed stock.

Custom Knifemaker - makes knives from his/her own design. Waterjet services and/or outsourced HT acceptable, but the blade itself must be ground by the maker.

Knifemaker - as above except using pre-shaped blanks is acceptable, as long as the blade is ground and it's finished in-house.

Apprentice - Indian George let you hold his tongs once. :)

Here's why I think it's important. There are several well-known and reputable guilds, societies, and associations represented in this thread. It seems to me that if all those were to adopt a common classification, it would go a long way toward protecting the real makers from the kit builders.

Another thing I'd really like to see in this thread is input from the people who buy custom knives. Collectors, hunters, military and paramilitary - anybody who owns knives you can't buy at WalMart. I'd be really interested in how they see the various levels of the seller's involvement.

**Disclaimer: I recently finished my first knife. Designed it, drew it, cut & ground it, heat treated and handled it. Personally, I won't really consider myself a knifemaker till I've done a couple more.
 
Apprentice - Indian George let you hold his tongs once.
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I don't know but I can swear there is a letter "h" missing in that sentence somewhere. :eek::foot::D
 
gatorforge said:
I do hope to be able to do that at some point I just don't have the money and equipment to forge my own blades, and don't know where I can get good steel from, unfortunately its one of those things home depot doesn't have.
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Aldo is a great source for steel, and a top-notch guy

http://njsteelbaron.com/

I have bought several hundred pounds of great steel from him over the last couple of years, it has all been great, he will sell a couple pounds or a couple tons, he's just a regular bladesmith like us who saw the need for small guys to be able to get good steel and had the connections to make it happen. Email him and ask him what he's got that would be good for you to use, let him know in the email what your experience is, what you plan for heat treating etc, or ask him for advice for heat treating what he sells you.

You will be surprised by how inexpensive good steel really is. Tell him Page referred you

-Page
 
sunshadow said:
Aldo is a great source for steel, and a top-notch guy

http://njsteelbaron.com/

I have bought several hundred pounds of great steel from him over the last couple of years, it has all been great, he will sell a couple pounds or a couple tons, he's just a regular bladesmith like us who saw the need for small guys to be able to get good steel and had the connections to make it happen. Email him and ask him what he's got that would be good for you to use, let him know in the email what your experience is, what you plan for heat treating etc, or ask him for advice for heat treating what he sells you.

You will be surprised by how inexpensive good steel really is. Tell him Page referred you

-Page
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Kelly Cupples is also a GREAT guy to deal with. You can find his contact info on the Ellis Custom Knifeworks webpage. Good prices and top-notch service... plus free shipping on orders over $100 if I remember correctly. :thumbup:
 
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