anybody know this Bob Legler

"I do not share any of my suppliers or service providers with anyone, as I have gone to a great deal of effort over the 32 years that I have made knives, to forge special bonds with these people."

A small piece of an email I got from him when asking if he heat treats his own blades or sends them out. So do all you knifemakers keep your suppliers a secret?
 
viva la said:
"I do not share any of my suppliers or service providers with anyone, as I have gone to a great deal of effort over the 32 years that I have made knives, to forge special bonds with these people."

A small piece of an email I got from him when asking if he heat treats his own blades or sends them out. So do all you knifemakers keep your suppliers a secret?
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I buy my steel from Aldo Bruno and occaisionally from Kelly Cupples
I buy grinding belts from Tracy Mickley
I buy granular magnetite iron ore from a Laguna Clay dealer
I either make my own lump charcoal for smelting or buy it from Wegmans Supermarket
I may buy CPM154CM from Niagara Specialty Alloys if Aldo doesn't end up carrying it
High temperature supplies I buy from Darren Ellis or my local pottery store
I have bought some handle blocks from Delbert Ealy
I buy the rest of my exotic hardwood from Pittsford Lumber in Pittsford NY
I buy Ferric Chloride from Salina Electric in Syracuse

I do my own heat treat, but for the CPM I may have Paul Bos do it

See I keep it all secret and locked up tight:D :jerkit:

-Page
 
sunshadow said:
I buy my steel from Aldo Bruno and occaisionally from Kelly Cupples
I buy grinding belts from Tracy Mickley
I buy granular magnetite iron ore from a Laguna Clay dealer
I either make my own lump charcoal for smelting or buy it from Wegmans Supermarket
I may buy CPM154CM from Niagara Specialty Alloys if Aldo doesn't end up carrying it
High temperature supplies I buy from Darren Ellis or my local pottery store
I have bought some handle blocks from Delbert Ealy
I buy the rest of my exotic hardwood from Pittsford Lumber in Pittsford NY
I buy Ferric Chloride from Salina Electric in Syracuse

I do my own heat treat, but for the CPM I may have Paul Bos do it

See I keep it all secret and locked up tight:D :jerkit:

-Page
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my point exactly. Why keep it a secret, unless you have something to hide.
 
"I do not share any of my suppliers or service providers with anyone, as I have gone to a great deal of effort over the 32 years that I have made knives, to forge special bonds with these people."
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I just have to shake my head at that one. That is a statement from a person who has no clue what knifemaking is all about, and is obviously hiding something.

There is also another possible explanation.... When I first started everyone was like that. I stiller refer to it as "the dark years". No knifemaker was willing to share with another. It was very much like the European Guilds....if you were not already on the "inside", you simply were not getting any information from anyone. That all changed when the internet came about....knifemakers either changed their ways and started sharing, or they were simply left behind.

As I said, that is a POSSIBLE explanation, but after reviewing the website, my gut instinct is that this individual is building kits, and labeling them as "customs". If that's what he wants to do fine....but I take exception with the misrepresentation...not only because it is not truthful, but more so because when someone learns that they knife they purchased is a "kit" rather than a fully hand crafted knife, it reflects on on us all, making anyone calling themselves a knifemaker suspect in the customers' eyes.
 
gatorforge said:
I do hope to be able to do that at some point I just don't have the money and equipment to forge my own blades, and don't know where I can get good steel from, unfortunately its one of those things home depot doesn't have.
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You could also try http://www.sheffieldsupply.com/ they are in Florida over in Orange City which is a little north of Orlando on I-4.

If you can wait a couple of weeks I'll give you a piece of Aldo's 1084 to play with. I have to figure out when I'm going canoing at Hillsborough River State Park with the wife on her next weekend off. Shoot me an e-mail and we'll make arrangements if you're willing to meet.;)
 
Good Day, I read most of this thread but not all. The question I ask myself is - if he is using a premade knife-that is already sharpened ( which most of the catalog knives are) then he is not really doing anything with the steel itself ( offering to "resharpen the knives-is a sharpening service). He put his name on the knife!! That seems very questionable to me. Is that ethical? The thing is none of this matters to most of the buyers out there. Most folks are happy to get a knife with a beautiful handle, a sharp edge, and a sheath to boot.. I dont have a problem with the guy- If the general public buys his knives and they are happy- well what can I say- I dont think it would matter to most folks anyway. I would ,rather, have him call his stuff " custom handled knives". . I call myself a knife maker but I havent sold a knife to anyone except friends- and for dirt cheap. I do not feel I am at the comfort level to sell to the " public". In that aspect, the hours upon hours I have spent learning how to grind, shape handles, heat treat, forge and all the other steps involved in making a knife, makes me angry that someone could buy a blank put a handle on it and call it a custom knife. Question- how does a person who buys blanks, puts his name on it , makes a handle, buys a sheath , and sells it under " custom knives" effect the " real knife makers"? Who is even listening but us!!----thank Mark
 
viva la said:
"I do not share any of my suppliers or service providers with anyone, as I have gone to a great deal of effort over the 32 years that I have made knives, to forge special bonds with these people."
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So special that he doesn't want to send business their way by recommending them. That's the kind of special bond I want with someone...:rolleyes:

You protect drug dealers by not revealing their identity, not steel suppliers, heat treating services, etc.
 
Ed, I don't think once people find out someone builds knives from a kit that it reflects badly on all knifemakers. If everyone built from a kit it wouldn't matter, but when the buyer (of a kitmade knife) finds out the true meaning of handmade he will search out makers that build knives in a manner becoming of the title "handmade". I sure would be mad at the seller and at myself to discover I paid too much for a "paint by number", but I would educate myself and look for a true work of art. I think repeat buyers, if they get a chance to find the truth will think more highly of true handmade as opposed to assembled knives.
I am sure the reason guy has become so defensive is that he has been called on the carpet by pissed buyers.
Show people the difference, and they'll get it.
~Alden
 
Alden Sherrodd said:
Ed, I don't think once people find out someone builds knives from a kit that it reflects badly on all knifemakers. If everyone built from a kit it wouldn't matter, but when the buyer (of a kitmade knife) finds out the true meaning of handmade he will search out makers that build knives in a manner becoming of the title "handmade". I sure would be mad at the seller and at myself to discover I paid too much for a "paint by number", but I would educate myself and look for a true work of art. I think repeat buyers, if they get a chance to find the truth will think more highly of true handmade as opposed to assembled knives.
I am sure the reason guy has become so defensive is that he has been called on the carpet by pissed buyers.
Show people the difference, and they'll get it.
~Alden
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Sadly what I have seen time and again is " well I spent all of this money on this *Custom knife* and it really isn't any better that the factory knives they sell down the street at the local WalMart"

The uneducated customer will spend the money on the charlatan because they have been led to believe that they should buy a "custom knife", then their buddy in deer camp will compare the knife they spent all of that money on to the Buck his granpappy gave him, tell him how stupid he was to spend all of that money on a piece of crap, that will forever color both of their perception of knifemakers, and they will paint that broad brush to all of their friends. It is like wedding photographers (a business I used to be in) there are more bad wedding photographer stories than there are wedding photographers

-Page
 
I also do fishing rods as well as knives, notice I used the word "do". In the fishing rod world the seperation is builder/ maker.
If I buy a graphite rod blank and build it into a fishing rod I am a rodbuilder. If I buy a Bamboo culm split it and so on up to end up with a fishing rod I am a rod maker.
I do not see why this does not fit to knives, knife builder, knife maker. Forge, stock removal knife maker. Buy a knife blank knife builder.
Cheers Ron.
 
Alden: I understand what your saying, but I have to respectfully disagree. An example occurred at the "old" Eugene show...there was an individual there who was selling folders that were the DDR kits. He was telling folks they were "custom", and each was marked with his name/logo. A client who had purchased a hunter from me the day prior purchased one of these folders and brought it my table to show me. Without thinking I told him that the person had done a decent job of finishing the kit. (it was very obvious to me that it was a kit) He looked at me with a shocked look and said "What!?" I explained to him how I knew it was a kit folder, and that it appeared that the "maker" had applied the handle material and put his name on it. The client was furious, and looked right at me and asked "The knife I purchased from you??....is it a kit!?"

Because the individual who made that folder from a kit had misrepresented it as a "custom", I immediately became suspect in that customer's eyes, as I'm sure did every other knifemaker in the room.

A lie by omission is still a lie. It's no different than the general impression people have about used car salesmen..... I'm sure their not all con men, but the general consensus is to use caution when dealing with one.

A knifemakers reputation is built on trust. Anything that threatens that trust/reputation either directly or indirectly, should be taken seriously, otherwise we as knifemakers will gain the same reputation that is often applied to used car salesmen.....buyer beware.

It's kinda sad that none of the knife magazines have chosen to bring this issue out into the open. I suspect that since it can be a very controversial topic, and any such article(s) would effect some segment of the knife world economically, I doubt we will ever see it in print. HEY! That may just have to be the next article I build for my website......it's a beginning. :)
 
Page, as I sit here there was commercial on TV for a "Starving Artist Event" at a local motel. These type of sellers sell "factory" painted wallpaintings. My mother is a watercolorist and has taught painting. I know that the factory painters sell many times the number of paintings as real painters. Walmart has many more customers than Tiffany's. Many people are satisfied with medocrity and will never know the difference. They wouldn't care if you pointed it out. BUT, there will be someone in a deer camp with a real quality handmade knife showing his buddies and some will be paying attention. They will be the buyer of a quality knife. I am convinced that most everything can be graphed and will be a Bell Curve. There is only a small percentage of people that quality matters enough to pay a premium for it, the majority are Walmart Shoppers. The most we can hope for is to find and educate those want something special and will pay the price for it. You can't hope to educate the county fair impulse buyers.

~Alden
 
Ed Caffrey said:
<SNIP>
Because the individual who made that folder from a kit had misrepresented it as a "custom", I immediately became suspect in that customer's eyes, as I'm sure did every other knifemaker in the room.

A lie by omission is still a lie. It's no different than the general impression people have about used car salesmen..... I'm sure their not all con men, but the general consensus is to use caution when dealing with one.

A knifemakers reputation is built on trust. Anything that threatens that trust/reputation either directly or indirectly, should be taken seriously, otherwise we as knifemakers will gain the same reputation that is often applied to used car salesmen.....buyer beware.

It's kinda sad that none of the knife magazines have chosen to bring this issue out into the open. I suspect that since it can be a very controversial topic, and any such article(s) would effect some segment of the knife world economically, I doubt we will ever see it in print. HEY! That may just have to be the next article I build for my website......it's a beginning. :)
Click to expand...

It is really too bad there is no mainstream way to put these frauds out of business without very publicly casting a pall of distrust over the entire genre of knifemakers. I do not believe in a bell curve of public enlightenment and a laissez-faire approach toward business ethics. Between photography, jewelry , and knifemaking I have been involved my whole life in craft related trades in which consistantly a few unethical players destroy the public trust in any practitioners of a craft, making it that much harder for the rest of us

-Page
 
I think there have been several good points made in this thread, not to mention a bit of humor. Definitely a worthwhile subject, and one that obviously people have strong opinions about. Props for keeping it civil and thoughtful. I wonder if this conversation will matter in the long run, though... I wish there would be something in a knife magazine, etc., about this, an article on your site is a good start, Ed.
 
Ed, hopefully the customer from the Eugene show understood what you told him and now can see the difference. Hopefully he can recognize the difference and now understands the value of your folder over the other. He may be explaining that to other people as well. Hopefully his anger is now directed at the kitbuilder.
As I stated before in this thread, Truth is Paramount. If the customer knows the questions to ask, and yours from Eugene should now, he will find the truth.
The main issue that irritates everyone is the truth, or the lack of. If we try to educate everyone that will listen maybe we can make a difference.
This issue alone is a selling point for the ABS and the Guild, as they have the teeth to police their members and can force them to truthfully promote their wares.
The show promoters could be more active in this as well, and relegate these people to county fairs and popsicle stick craft shows.

~Alden
 
drdoc said:
Apprentice - Indian George let you hold his tongs once. :)
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panch0 said:
I don't know but I can swear there is a letter "h" missing in that sentence somewhere. :eek::foot::D
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Ah, yes, sorry about that!

"Apprentice: Indian Gheorge let you hold his tongs once." :D

Seriously. How many of y'all would be in on a discussion regarding formal classification systems, for makers and for product? It won't solve the problem, but it might be a good start.
 
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