Anyone else been dissapointed by S30V?

knarfeng said:
Totally agree. Whether you will see a difference will depend a lot on your cutting/sharpening habits.

There was a lovely thread a while ago in which some young fella asked "Now that I bought a D2 blade, what does it do that other steels won't?" The answer: "Go longer between sharpenings."

If you sharpen frequently, you will not see a difference in the performance.
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I think this is sorta half the story ... if you sharpen every knife to the exact same edge angle, and sharpen frequently, the differences may not always be as obvious. After all, if the "bad" steel takes 3 weeks before being resharpened, and the "good steel" 6 weeks, how much do you notice? I've always felt that people who sharpen every knife to the same edge angle may be better off with a steel that doesn't horrifically fight the sharpening stone. For me, the standard of a "better" steel is one I can sharpen to a lower angle, without damage doing the common tasks that I use that knife for, while retaining the edge for an acceptable amount of time. If I have to keep one knife at 18-10 degrees per side, and another I can take down to 13-14 degrees -- that is performance I can easily notice. So that's my definition of a "better" steel for a particular job -- for that job, I can take the knife to a lower higher-performance geometry without sacrificing edge life. Taken that way, differences in steel types become much more readily apparent, at least to me. I buy a knife to cut things, so cutting performance is the main critereon for what makes a better steel.
 
Joe Talmadge said:
I think this is sorta half the story ... if you sharpen every knife to the exact same edge angle, and sharpen frequently, the differences may not always be as obvious. After all, if the "bad" steel takes 3 weeks before being resharpened, and the "good steel" 6 weeks, how much do you notice? I've always felt that people who sharpen every knife to the same edge angle may be better off with a steel that doesn't horrifically fight the sharpening stone. For me, the standard of a "better" steel is one I can sharpen to a lower angle, without damage doing the common tasks that I use that knife for, while retaining the edge for an acceptable amount of time. If I have to keep one knife at 18-10 degrees per side, and another I can take down to 13-14 degrees -- that is performance I can easily notice. So that's my definition of a "better" steel for a particular job -- for that job, I can take the knife to a lower higher-performance geometry without sacrificing edge life. Taken that way, differences in steel types become much more readily apparent, at least to me. I buy a knife to cut things, so cutting performance is the main critereon for what makes a better steel.
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Not trying to be a smart a, but is the blue highlight a typo? If you meant to say "18-20" degrees, I understand your point. I do have some blades that I tend to sharpen at a lower angle than others, though I don't try to see how low I can go.

I was agreeing with another's experience that he did not see much difference in blade performance because of his frequent sharpening.
 
Yes, a typo, I was going for 18-19. I was sort of agreeing also -- to the extent that a particular user sharpens all his knives as the same angle, I expect the differences to be less obvious. I was just further arguing that he should change his angle :)
 
Vasilli, I can't seem to find the thread where you told how to interpret the table.
Would you mind posting a link or else giving a quick explanation?
Thanks,
Frank R
 
Take a 420 (Buck 110) or 440A (Blackie Collins) knife and start cutting full sheets and outlet holes in sheetrock and then do the same with S30V (Lone Wolf Double Duty) without any way to sharpen them during the day and you will soon find out that the S30V is a tougher steel in regard to edge holding. In my personal experience, I tried all 3 while building my shop and there is a real difference in how the S30V did as compared to the other two steels.

I also used the Lone Wolf Double Duty when putting down a vinyl floor as I got tired or replacing broken razor blades in the razor blade knife. It will cut well all day without sharpening it.

I usually carry the Blackie Collins (Meyerco) as it was very inexpensive, is an assistend opening knife, seems indestructable, is very light and I don't mind cutting weeds out of the lawn with it but for tough constuction type jobs I always switch over to the Double Duty. I don't use the Buck 110 much as it takes two hands to open it and I prefer a one hand opening knife that I can also clip to my pocket.
 
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I can not search here, Sorry.

Left column - number of cuts (it is not linear) in the table results on sharpness measurement after that number of cuts for different steels.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Buhbuhbonky said:
There's 420, 440, and the rest is hype IMHO.
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Vivi said:
So what part of out cutting 420 and 440 in controlled edge retention tests is hype?

Does Buck offer an S30V version of their 420HC Buck 110 solely to service people who have been deluded by hype?

Does Spyderco use S30V throughout half their line of folders to appease hype?

Does Kershaw offer it as a premium on some of their models, just so people can pay more for hype?

Could you elaborate past IMHO?
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Which variations of "420" and "440" steel are you talking about anyway, Buhbuhbonky?

Regards,
3G
 
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ah, but my point is, the versions don't matter.

My post was an exaggeration to prove a point. Poetry, in a way. Get the gestalt of it, don't try to break it down.

Paralysis through analysis.
 
If you can't tell the difference between 420 series steels, 154-CM, and S30V, good on you. You'll save a lot of money that way.

But that doesn't mean other users aren't experiencing the wide difference in edge holding between steels.

It's like saying you don't see the difference between a '98 Ford Probe, '98 Accura NSX, and a '98 Ferrari Diablo. You may not, but that doesn't mean other people don't.

But by all means, if it suits you, drive the '95 Ford Probe!
 
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I bet there's nobody here who could tell the difference, through normal use, between, say VG-10, S30V and.. oh.. 440C without looking at what's stamped on the blade.

Experiment:

I bet if we gave anyone here 3 plain identical blades, that are made out of those different materials, the only marking being a code that would allow the experimenter to know what blade is what, that the tester would not be able to tell the difference after 2 weeks' worth of use, sharpening, etc.

:thumbup:
 
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Buhbuhbonky said:
I bet there's nobody here who could tell the difference, through normal use, between, say VG-10, S30V and.. oh.. 440C without looking at what's stamped on the blade.

Experiment:

I bet if we gave anyone here 3 plain identical blades, that are made out of those different materials, the only marking being a code that would allow the experimenter to know what blade is what, that the tester would not be able to tell the difference after 2 weeks' worth of use, sharpening, etc.

:thumbup:
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I can tell VG-10 from other steels by sight. In the right lighting, VG-10 has an almost damascus-like, wavy, grain pattern to it. I haven't seen that with other steels. I'm sure others here can do the same. I guess, however, giving the blades some sort of coating could potentially solve that problem.

S30V, as done up by most manufacturers, has a pretty rough finish to it, with ridges you can feel if you run your fingernail along the flats of the blade. The S30V blade would have to have a darn good finish for me not to know it's S30V. I think others here have probably observed the same thing. I guess, however, leaving a rough finish on all the blades could potentially solve that problem.

Next problem is, I can usually tell what kind of steel I'm dealing with by how it sharpens. It's something I'm sure I'm not the only one here who can do, so I suppose you'd have to tell the "testers" that they couldn't sharpen the blades.

Last problem, I can tell the difference between the three steels by how they perform at cutting. We're not talking huge differences, but it's noticeable. I'm sure there are others here who could easily tell the difference as well.

In short, I don't think your test would work.

Regards,
3G
 
Well I'm sure you THINK you can tell. How can you prove that?

This challenge would allow y'all "experts" to show that there really is a noticeable difference in the steels for standard applications like cutting, sharpening, whatever. Whereas I believe the differences are so slight as to be un-noticeable. I believe it's all marketing hype.
 
Buhbuhbonky said:
Well I'm sure you THINK you can tell. How can you prove that?

This challenge would allow y'all "experts" to show that there really is a noticeable difference in the steels. Whereas I believe the differences are so slight as to be un-noticeable. I believe it's all marketing hype.
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I'm sure you do. You're certainly not the first person to make that sort of claim without any evidence to back it up, and I'm sure you won't be the last. You're not the first person to end up with egg on his face either. You really should consider reading more and posting less.;)

Regards,
3G
 
Buhbuhbonky said:
That's hardly proof, my friend. ;)
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I see. So, I suppose things like CATRA results, user feedback, knifemaker experiences with the steels, and independent testing, all information that is readily available, here on the forums, is just part of the "hype"?:rolleyes:

Have you used any of the three steels you mentioned (VG-10, 440C, S30V), and if so what were your experiences? What knives do you own in those steels? What types of testing have you personally conducted, with those three steels, to give you the impression that there is no perceptible difference in performance between them?

FYI, Vivi asked you some questions earlier, based off of a rather ignorant statement you made, which you have neglected to answer. It has not gone unnoticed.

Buhbuhbonky said:
There's 420, 440, and the rest is hype IMHO.
Click to expand...

Vivi said:
So what part of out cutting 420 and 440 in controlled edge retention tests is hype?

Does Buck offer an S30V version of their 420HC Buck 110 solely to service people who have been deluded by hype?

Does Spyderco use S30V throughout half their line of folders to appease hype?

Does Kershaw offer it as a premium on some of their models, just so people can pay more for hype?

Could you elaborate past IMHO?
Click to expand...



Regards,
3G
 
To me any difference that s30v might have in edgeholding over steels like 154cm, vg-10, and even the china steels used in the Tenacious are not worth the extra pain in the butt when it comes time to resharpen. But I go to the extreme when I sharpen a knife and wont stop until I reach a super hair poping edge! Maybe s30v cant take take this type of edge and I'm wasting my time and and getting fustrated with the steel.,,,VWB.
 
I have had folks contact me and also drop by my house with S30V knives and I've heard comments like, I don't get it or this steels no good, it won't get sharp and things of this nature. As it turns out for most folks going from their Old Timer carbon blade, or a lesser stainless 440 model they used to carry they are ill prepared for sharpening a higher wear resistant steel like S30V using the same method they used to sharpen their other knives. For that matter the same can be said of other high wear steels like D2 or BG42 and others. Going from 56 Rockwell to the new generation of steel is an adjustment for some I think.

Granted this is not always the case but from what I've gathered its pretty close and what I've found is that if I bring them in the house, sit them down and re educate them by example as I sharpen their S30V blade in front of them as they watch that they suddenly gain a whole new appreciation for the steel and realize it wasn't the steel that was no good but more specifically it was their sharpening method that was lacking. Once they see that it sure can get sharp, and very very sharp they wake up to the fact that they need to readjust the way they do things to catch up with the developments in the steel. At least thats how I see it sometimes regarding the good ole boys out there using the knives and these are guys that don't necessarily belong to a forum or in some cases even own a computer.

STR
 
I've found S30V in my Mini-Rukus easier to sharpen than, say, D2 or VG-10. It holds a superb edge; I've experienced no problems with chipping even when cutting nasty grotty stuff like vines, old wood, etc.
 
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